Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

How did we get here

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Created by hilly 1 month ago, 24 Feb 2026
Carantoc
WA, 7227 posts
10 Mar 2026 8:43AM
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Claim (from what I understand are everyone's comments here):
US military spending has increased in recent decades whilst spending on heathcare and education has declined, This is the reason American super-powers are in (apparent) decline and it is Trumps fault.



Fact Check:
US military spending has been declining since the end of WW2. Looks like there was a small blip for Korean war / Vietnam ? and also when Obama was president. Other than that I am not sure the facts show a picture of increased US military spending in recent decades or any link between right-wing US governments and left-wing governments increasing spend.

data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?contextual=default&end=2024&locations=US&start=1960&view=chart

If you search the same world-bank data for US healthcare spending it looks almost opposite to the military spend. from about 4% of GDP in 1950s to 18% today.


So the actual facts seem to be that post WW2 US government military spending has declined significantly whilst US government healthcare spending has increased significantly.

Still, lets not let those facts cloud the argument and lets just blame 'it' on Trump anyways (whatever "it" is that we are now blaming him for).

hilly
WA, 8060 posts
10 Mar 2026 9:20AM
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So how does this happen? And I know it is not Trump. Original post is about the decline of a superpower.

Medical debt is a leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States, with estimates suggesting that medical issues contribute to over 60% of all filings. Despite the Affordable Care Act reducing uninsured rates, high out-of-pocket costs, deductibles, and income loss from illness cause, on average, over 530,000 families to file for bankruptcy annually.

Bankruptcy due to medical costs in Australia is relatively uncommon, affecting only an estimated 8-12% of personal insolvencies. While Medicare and private insurance cover most costs, gaps in dental, private, and specialist care can lead to financial distress, usually driven by income loss during illness rather than just the debt.

hilly
WA, 8060 posts
10 Mar 2026 10:18AM
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Carantoc said..

Claim (from what I understand are everyone's comments here):
US military spending has increased in recent decades whilst spending on heathcare and education has declined, This is the reason American super-powers are in (apparent) decline and it is Trumps fault.



Fact Check:
US military spending has been declining since the end of WW2. Looks like there was a small blip for Korean war / Vietnam ? and also when Obama was president. Other than that I am not sure the facts show a picture of increased US military spending in recent decades or any link between right-wing US governments and left-wing governments increasing spend.

data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?contextual=default&end=2024&locations=US&start=1960&view=chart

If you search the same world-bank data for US healthcare spending it looks almost opposite to the military spend. from about 4% of GDP in 1950s to 18% today.


So the actual facts seem to be that post WW2 US government military spending has declined significantly whilst US government healthcare spending has increased significantly.

Still, lets not let those facts cloud the argument and lets just blame 'it' on Trump anyways (whatever "it" is that we are now blaming him for).


Still going up



myscreenname
2368 posts
10 Mar 2026 10:59AM
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Carantoc said..

Claim (from what I understand are everyone's comments here):
US military spending has increased in recent decades whilst spending on heathcare and education has declined, This is the reason American super-powers are in (apparent) decline and it is Trumps fault.



Fact Check:
US military spending has been declining since the end of WW2. Looks like there was a small blip for Korean war / Vietnam ? and also when Obama was president. Other than that I am not sure the facts show a picture of increased US military spending in recent decades or any link between right-wing US governments and left-wing governments increasing spend.

data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?contextual=default&end=2024&locations=US&start=1960&view=chart

If you search the same world-bank data for US healthcare spending it looks almost opposite to the military spend. from about 4% of GDP in 1950s to 18% today.


So the actual facts seem to be that post WW2 US government military spending has declined significantly whilst US government healthcare spending has increased significantly.

Still, lets not let those facts cloud the argument and lets just blame 'it' on Trump anyways (whatever "it" is that we are now blaming him for).

Yup, makes sense. The U.S. are running out of weapons by trying to knock down $35,000 Iranian drones. Western weapons manufacturers can't make more missiles fast enough.

There is a 87.2% chance America will win this war, depending who you ask.

philn
1105 posts
10 Mar 2026 12:52PM
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Carantoc said..

If you search the same world-bank data for US healthcare spending it looks almost opposite to the military spend. from about 4% of GDP in 1950s to 18% today.


So the actual facts seem to be that post WW2 US government military spending has declined significantly whilst US government healthcare spending has increased significantly.



Most Americans don't understand why they pay so much for so little. As usual in the real world the answer is convoluted, complicated and in large part due to special interest groups, i.e. the health insurance companies. Many anti war pacifists like to beat the drum on how much defense industry lobbyists distort the American democratic process, but their pot of money to lavish on politicians is tiny compared to how much the health insurance companies spend on lobbying (I believe the health insurance companies spend 20x more than the defense industry).

Not sure why an Australian would want to go down that rabbit hole, but if you happen to want to waste a lot of time, a place to start is by googling how much the USA spends on administration vs patient care.

myscreenname
2368 posts
10 Mar 2026 8:18PM
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Carantoc said..

Whilst I beLIEve it is fair bit more nuanced than cammd's three sentence comment.

1. Do you beLIEve the suppLIEr wouLIEd compLIE with the unLIEkeLIEst reqLIEst?
2. Do you beLIEve that famiLIEs shouLIEd reLIE on the pubLIEc LIEbrary's tiLIEs?
3. Do you beLIEve the repLIEvLIEd sLIEgh was a poLIEte resLIE?

Asking for a friend

D3
WA, 1555 posts
10 Mar 2026 8:40PM
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Carantoc said..

Claim (from what I understand are everyone's comments here):
US military spending has increased in recent decades whilst spending on heathcare and education has declined, This is the reason American super-powers are in (apparent) decline and it is Trumps fault.



Fact Check:
US military spending has been declining since the end of WW2. Looks like there was a small blip for Korean war / Vietnam ? and also when Obama was president. Other than that I am not sure the facts show a picture of increased US military spending in recent decades or any link between right-wing US governments and left-wing governments increasing spend.

data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?contextual=default&end=2024&locations=US&start=1960&view=chart

If you search the same world-bank data for US healthcare spending it looks almost opposite to the military spend. from about 4% of GDP in 1950s to 18% today.


So the actual facts seem to be that post WW2 US government military spending has declined significantly whilst US government healthcare spending has increased significantly.

Still, lets not let those facts cloud the argument and lets just blame 'it' on Trump anyways (whatever "it" is that we are now blaming him for).


Once again with the Strawman.

No one claimed USA was increasing spending. In fact, I clearly said they were the world leaders in Military Spending. They don't need to increase spending to remain the leader.

But you know what? USA per capita GDP has grown from around $15k in the 1940s, to aound $90k this year.
So it's very misleading to state that "post WW2 US government military spending has declined significantly "

Sure, they don't lead as percentage of GDP, but they spend more than the next 5 nations combined in plain Dollars, partly because their GPD has grown substantially.

And I didn't say they were't spending enough on healthcare and education, just that they're not prioritising it.

cammd
QLD, 4382 posts
14 Mar 2026 9:27AM
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A far right neo nazi was arrested by a left wing government in nsw for hate speech, now a far left teenage girl has been arrested by a right wing government in Qld for hate speech. I can't say exactly what she was displaying because I could get arrested in Qld for repeating it. It was from the something to the something. Neither were inciting violence or planning violence or likely to cause violence they both were just saying or displaying offensive ideas.

I dont agree with either of the opinions of the two people arrested but locking up people for speaking their minds is what dictators do. Offensive ideas shouldn't be suppressed by law they should be challenged and defeated by civil debate.
The uniparty has to go before our free country disappears.

myscreenname
2368 posts
14 Mar 2026 6:56PM
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Trump asking Ukraine for help defending against cheap Iranian drones, some of which are made from balsa wood. I think that alone tells you this war is not looking good for the U.S.

Invading Iran is the pedo president's biggest mistake to date. Unfortunately this is not looking like a 2 week war any more.

hilly
WA, 8060 posts
17 Mar 2026 6:58PM
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D3
WA, 1555 posts
17 Mar 2026 9:28PM
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myscreenname said..
Trump asking Ukraine for help defending against cheap Iranian drones, some of which are made from balsa wood. I think that alone tells you this war is not looking good for the U.S.

Invading Iran is the pedo president's biggest mistake to date. Unfortunately this is not looking like a 2 week war any more.


Trump threatening NATO and complaining about Europe not helping in USAs unprovoked war in the middle east is absolutely hilarious only months after his Greenland fixation forced Europe to put boots on the ground.

cammd
QLD, 4382 posts
18 Mar 2026 7:02AM
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D3 said..

myscreenname said..
Trump asking Ukraine for help defending against cheap Iranian drones, some of which are made from balsa wood. I think that alone tells you this war is not looking good for the U.S.

Invading Iran is the pedo president's biggest mistake to date. Unfortunately this is not looking like a 2 week war any more.



Trump threatening NATO and complaining about Europe not helping in USAs unprovoked war in the middle east is absolutely hilarious only months after his Greenland fixation forced Europe to put boots on the ground.


unprovoked you say. I guess Iran has always just quitely minded its own business and never gets involved in any kind of mischief.

Mr Milk
NSW, 3132 posts
18 Mar 2026 10:30AM
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You do know that Iran was invaded by Britain in 1941? Probably not.
Or that a CIA sponsored coup in 1953 replaced a democratic government with a dictatorship that lasted until 1979?
Iran has plenty of reasons to be anti West. And that's not including the deep history in antiquity, when various iterations of the Persian Empire spent a few centuries in wars with Rome.
Being strongly anti Israel is part of that, but it is also part of power politics against Saudi Arabia in the region, since the Saudi princes align themselves with the US, Israel's biggest ally.

D3
WA, 1555 posts
18 Mar 2026 7:46AM
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cammd said..

D3 said..


myscreenname said..
Trump asking Ukraine for help defending against cheap Iranian drones, some of which are made from balsa wood. I think that alone tells you this war is not looking good for the U.S.

Invading Iran is the pedo president's biggest mistake to date. Unfortunately this is not looking like a 2 week war any more.




Trump threatening NATO and complaining about Europe not helping in USAs unprovoked war in the middle east is absolutely hilarious only months after his Greenland fixation forced Europe to put boots on the ground.



unprovoked you say. I guess Iran has always just quitely minded its own business and never gets involved in any kind of mischief.


What did they do this time specifically that prompted the USA to go all Korea 2.0 on them? (Bombing them back to the stone age)

Weren't they in talks about nuclear programs when USA and Israel started launching missiles? What provocation occurred in those talks? Did someone say something mean about Trump?

cammd
QLD, 4382 posts
18 Mar 2026 12:43PM
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D3 said..

cammd said..


D3 said..



myscreenname said..
Trump asking Ukraine for help defending against cheap Iranian drones, some of which are made from balsa wood. I think that alone tells you this war is not looking good for the U.S.

Invading Iran is the pedo president's biggest mistake to date. Unfortunately this is not looking like a 2 week war any more.





Trump threatening NATO and complaining about Europe not helping in USAs unprovoked war in the middle east is absolutely hilarious only months after his Greenland fixation forced Europe to put boots on the ground.




unprovoked you say. I guess Iran has always just quitely minded its own business and never gets involved in any kind of mischief.



What did they do this time specifically that prompted the USA to go all Korea 2.0 on them? (Bombing them back to the stone age)

Weren't they in talks about nuclear programs when USA and Israel started launching missiles? What provocation occurred in those talks? Did someone say something mean about Trump?


I guess after decades of talks about nuclear programs the US started to think they were not really sincere in agreeing to stop developing a nuclear weapon.
What do think, would the Iranian regime keep developing a nuclear weapon or not given the choice.

cammd
QLD, 4382 posts
18 Mar 2026 12:56PM
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Mr Milk said..
You do know that Iran was invaded by Britain in 1941? Probably not.
Or that a CIA sponsored coup in 1953 replaced a democratic government with a dictatorship that lasted until 1979?
Iran has plenty of reasons to be anti West. And that's not including the deep history in antiquity, when various iterations of the Persian Empire spent a few centuries in wars with Rome.
Being strongly anti Israel is part of that, but it is also part of power politics against Saudi Arabia in the region, since the Saudi princes align themselves with the US, Israel's biggest ally.


I think you live in a leftard bubble dude, Iran is anti west because the leaders are Fundamentalist Islamic. That's it.

I don't believe the general population are anti west at all, I think given the chance the general population would embrace democracy and rule of law and free speech and Mc Donalds and KFC and other western goodies.

Do you think a 20 something year old Iranian woman has a grudge against the west because of Churchill invaded to keep supply lines open in WW2 and withdrew in 1946 after the war finished. Your delusional.

hilly
WA, 8060 posts
18 Mar 2026 11:21AM
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The general population don't seem too keen to overthrow the government. There is no evidence of a popular uprising due to the bombing. Lots of the population rightly do not trust the US.

hilly
WA, 8060 posts
18 Mar 2026 12:40PM
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We need more of this
Jos? "Pepe" Mujica was born on May 20, 1935, into a poor family on the outskirts of Montevideo, Uruguay. He grew up with little money but a great deal of fire in his heart - a deep, burning belief that the world was not fair, and that someone had to do something about it.
As a young man, he joined the Tupamaros, a left-wing urban guerrilla movement that carried out armed operations against Uruguay's government in the 1960s and early 1970s. It was a violent and dangerous path, one that Mujica would later reflect on with complexity. In March 1970, during a confrontation with police at a Montevideo bar, he was shot six times. He nearly bled to death on the pavement. By sheer chance, the surgeon who saved his life at the military hospital that night happened to be a secret Tupamaro sympathizer who chose to follow his medical ethics. Pepe Mujica lived.
But not freely.
Over the years, he was arrested multiple times and escaped prison twice - once famously by digging a 40-metre tunnel with over 100 fellow prisoners that led directly into the living room of a house nearby. But in 1972, he was recaptured for the last time. And when Uruguay's military staged a coup in 1973, turning the country into a dictatorship, Mujica became one of nine guerrilla leaders the regime designated as hostages - prisoners they threatened to execute if armed resistance resumed.
What followed was 13 years of suffering that would have broken most people completely.
He was held in military bases rather than ordinary prisons. Sometimes he was kept in underground cells. Sometimes in wells. Sometimes in horse-watering troughs. He went months with his hands tied behind his back. Days sitting in filth. Two years bathing himself using a rag dipped in a single cup of water. He spent long, agonising stretches in total solitude, with nothing but the walls and his own mind. His captors, by his own account, were on a mission to drive him insane. They came terrifyingly close.
But Pepe Mujica held on.
He later said: "Those years of solitude were probably the ones that taught me the most." And in a 2020 speech, looking back on all of it, he said simply: "I've experienced everything in this life - but I don't hate anybody."
When democracy returned to Uruguay in 1985 and political prisoners were freed, many assumed Mujica's story was over. A broken man from a defeated movement, released into a world that had moved on. Instead, he emerged from prison more thoughtful, more philosophical, and more deeply committed to his people than ever before.
He chose the path of democratic politics.
He ran for parliament. He won. He became a senator. He served as Minister of Agriculture, where he spoke in almost biblical terms about how government policy touched the lives of ordinary people - and won the hearts of working Uruguayans who felt, finally, that someone in power actually understood their lives. His reputation grew. His voice carried. And in 2009, at the age of 74, Jos? Mujica was elected President of Uruguay.
The world watched closely to see how this former guerrilla, this former prisoner, this man who had spent over a decade in a hole in the ground - would govern a country.
What they saw left them speechless.
He refused to move into the presidential palace. Instead, he went home - to his small, modest farmhouse on the outskirts of Montevideo, where he grew chrysanthemums and vegetables with his wife, Luc?a, a fellow former Tupamaro who would later serve as Uruguay's Vice President. In the early mornings, before the business of leading a nation began, Mujica could be spotted on top of his tractor in the fields, as he had always been.
He drove himself to the presidential office in his 1987 Volkswagen Beetle - a car worth just $1,800. That figure was not an estimate. It was the entire amount he declared as his personal wealth in his mandatory annual financial disclosure. His three-legged dog, Manuela, wandered through the garden when visitors came to call.
And every month, he donated approximately 90% of his presidential salary to charity - specifically to a programme building public housing for Uruguay's poorest citizens. He kept only what he needed to live on, roughly equal to the average wage of an ordinary Uruguayan. Because, he explained, a leader cannot truly understand their people if they live in a way their people never could.
"I don't have less because I want more," he once said. "I have exactly what I need."
During his presidency, Uruguay became the first country in the world to fully legalise recreational marijuana. Same-sex marriage was legalised. Abortion was decriminalised. The national poverty rate was nearly cut in half. Minimum wages rose dramatically. Trade union rights were strengthened to the point where Uruguay became the most advanced country in the Americas for workers' rights, according to the International Trade Union Confederation. All of this in a country of just 3.5 million people, led by a man who slept in a farmhouse and drove a car worth less than most people's monthly rent.
The world called him "the world's poorest president." He gently disagreed.
"Poor people are those who only work to try to keep an expensive lifestyle," he said, "and want more and more and more. I'm not poor. I'm sober."
On May 13, 2025 - just one week before his 90th birthday - Jos? "Pepe" Mujica passed away peacefully at his farmhouse outside Montevideo. The same modest home he had never abandoned. The same farm where the flowers were still growing. The Volkswagen Beetle was parked quietly outside, as it always had been.
He was eulogised by presidents, philosophers, and ordinary people around the world. But perhaps no tribute was more fitting than the one given by Uruguay's current president, Yamand? Orsi, who wrote simply: "Thank you for everything you gave us, and for your profound love for your people."
A man shot six times survived to give a nation its soul back.
Some lives are not just lived. They are proof of something.
#PepeMujica #LeadByExample #TrueLeadership #SimpleLivingBigImpact
~Weird Wonders and Facts

cammd
QLD, 4382 posts
18 Mar 2026 5:37PM
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hilly said..
The general population don't seem too keen to overthrow the government. There is no evidence of a popular uprising due to the bombing. Lots of the population rightly do not trust the US.


You guys seem to see our allies, the US and Israel as the enemies whilst supporting oppressive brutal dictatorships like the regime in Iran and Hamas in Gaza.

Why is that, they oppress women, they would kill lgbt people, they suppress free speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, they dont support net zero or any climate causes either. They would behead or hang most of us should we question anything if they ruled over us. They also fund and perpetrate terrorism on a global scale. What is it about them you find so admirable.

hilly
WA, 8060 posts
18 Mar 2026 4:13PM
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cammd said..

hilly said..
The general population don't seem too keen to overthrow the government. There is no evidence of a popular uprising due to the bombing. Lots of the population rightly do not trust the US.



You guys seem to see our allies, the US and Israel as the enemies whilst supporting oppressive brutal dictatorships like the regime in Iran and Hamas in Gaza.

Why is that, they oppress women, they would kill lgbt people, they suppress free speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, they dont support net zero or any climate causes either. They would behead or hang most of us should we question anything if they ruled over us. They also fund and perpetrate terrorism on a global scale. What is it about them you find so admirable.


You are confusing facts with my opinion. That has nothing to do with my opinion. The facts are that the US has not won the hearts and minds of the Iranian people.

cammd
QLD, 4382 posts
18 Mar 2026 6:46PM
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hilly said..


cammd said..



hilly said..
The general population don't seem too keen to overthrow the government. There is no evidence of a popular uprising due to the bombing. Lots of the population rightly do not trust the US.





You guys seem to see our allies, the US and Israel as the enemies whilst supporting oppressive brutal dictatorships like the regime in Iran and Hamas in Gaza.

Why is that, they oppress women, they would kill lgbt people, they suppress free speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, they dont support net zero or any climate causes either. They would behead or hang most of us should we question anything if they ruled over us. They also fund and perpetrate terrorism on a global scale. What is it about them you find so admirable.




You are confusing facts with my opinion. That has nothing to do with my opinion. The facts are that the US has not won the hearts and minds of the Iranian people.



I think the goal is to stop the terrorists getting a nuke

Maybe getting control of oil supply lines too

I dont think winning a popularity contest is high on the priority list

hilly
WA, 8060 posts
18 Mar 2026 5:07PM
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There are no nukes as the guy who just quit said. It is a diversion for the pedo from Epstein.

myscreenname
2368 posts
18 Mar 2026 5:25PM
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The narrative changes daily. The Israelis tricked the pedo president into choosing this war and it's an unfolding disaster with no real goal in sight. Everyone loses.

cammd
QLD, 4382 posts
18 Mar 2026 8:24PM
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hilly said..
There are no nukes as the guy who just quit said. It is a diversion for the pedo from Epstein.




Oh ok, so presidents from both sides have been in talks with Iran about nukes for decades so Trump could divert attention from the epstein files when the time came. Its a distraction that has been decades in the making. Why couldn't I see that obvious plan.

D3
WA, 1555 posts
18 Mar 2026 6:30PM
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cammd said..
I guess after decades of talks about nuclear programs the US started to think they were not really sincere in agreeing to stop developing a nuclear weapon.
What do think, would the Iranian regime keep developing a nuclear weapon or not given the choice.


So nothing actually happened during these talks to provoke USA to start launching missiles?

If the USA has a clear goal as to what they want to achieve with all this destruction, they haven't done a good job in communicating it.

And I see no reason why Australia needs to commit any support to actions that serve no clear purpose, especially Warlike actions when the USA hasn't actually declared war?

D3
WA, 1555 posts
18 Mar 2026 6:33PM
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cammd said..

You guys seem to see our allies, the US and Israel as the enemies whilst supporting oppressive brutal dictatorships like the regime in Iran and Hamas in Gaza.

Why is that, they oppress women, they would kill lgbt people, they suppress free speech, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, they dont support net zero or any climate causes either. They would behead or hang most of us should we question anything if they ruled over us. They also fund and perpetrate terrorism on a global scale. What is it about them you find so admirable.


We don't have to support the Iranian government if we also don't like what the USA government is doing.

You are well aquainted with the concept of not liking two seperate ideologies that are at odds, without having to choose one over the other.

myscreenname
2368 posts
18 Mar 2026 7:42PM
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The complication in this war is that Israel and the U.S. have opposing interests. Israel has been lobbying for years to bring the U.S. into the middle East and now they've done it.

Iran and Israel want to wipe each other out, to them this war is framed as a fundamental right to exist. The U.S. has no appetite to get involved in this sort of forever war, but they were tricked into it.

The problem U.S. faces now is: for Iran to win all they have to do is survive. For the U.S. to win they need to control the oil moving through that shipping channel, which means they would likely have to secure the entire coast of Iran. That could take years, and would come at a huge cost. For Israel to win they need to secure and cleanse more land of Arabs, which they are doing in Southern Lebanon.

Who provided the Intel to the U.S. that the girls school they bombed was an Iranian Base? Israel have no problem killing arab children, The U.S. doesn't really go there. Was this another Israeli trick? This one error likely galvanized the Iranian people behind their government, making regime change a secondary issue for them.

Opossing interests between Israel and the U.S. is the big mistake the pedo made when he was tricked into attacking Iran.

hilly
WA, 8060 posts
18 Mar 2026 8:04PM
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cammd said..

hilly said..
There are no nukes as the guy who just quit said. It is a diversion for the pedo from Epstein.





Oh ok, so presidents from both sides have been in talks with Iran about nukes for decades so Trump could divert attention from the epstein files when the time came. It's a distraction that has been decades in the making. Why couldn't I see that obvious plan.


Don't follow sorry. Trump can't remember 3 minutes ago let alone 10 years ago

myscreenname
2368 posts
18 Mar 2026 8:27PM
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I wasn't a fan of Tucker Carlson, being a far right winger. But when he talks about the Iran war and the Israeli influence on the U.S. I can't help but agree. He makes some compelling points

There is a big split happening in the republican party as a result of Trump starting this war, and it's going to be bye bye Donald Trump, which will be a good thing.

hilly
WA, 8060 posts
18 Mar 2026 8:33PM
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I hope this happens






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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"How did we get here" started by hilly