Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..Macroscien said..
Bitcoin Investors May Lose Everything, Central Banker Warns
au.finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-investors-may-lose-everything-105239031.html
For Bitcoin fans who care about glbal warming
www.smh.com.au/business/markets/dirty-factories-the-hidden-cost-of-mining-bitcoins-20210201-p56yag.html
@ Macro: Yeah. Nah. Other way around. When the internet comes for something it wins.
@ Milk: How much energy is consumed by gamers?
$1M by mid 2025. Currently overvalued by about 20%/1.5 months early. $55K+ by end of this year. We will see! : )
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..
Tesla bought $1.5B in bitcoin. Finally.
Amazingly they are both overvalued. Or we could rather say their value ( Tesla and Bitcoin) are based purely on hopes/ beliefs not fundamental data.
Tesla value is also based on US government pumping money into the economy by stock market channeling Tesla has no product to offer for that money at sufficient quantity- needs to channel those money somewhere.
Apparently whole Tesla net profit is made due to grand and bonuses from state, not sales and customers.
So from now we have a Santa Claus coming every Weekend with bags of free money.
Australia did follow with another shot of 100 bln freshly printed KoalaCoins.But crunch time is commin soon.China is about to release their international version of digital yuan this year.So world is going to decide what to buy and invest:into money that you could buy some physical goods and infrastructure? or virtual money printed limitless with nothing behind to cover, but faith.
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..
Tesla bought $1.5B in bitcoin. Finally.
Is that like when Lehman Bros. bought $1.5B in high yield sub-prime mortages ?
Or When Nick Leeson bought $1.5B of high yield, very stable and great investment futures and derivatives ?
Maybe time to buy Tesla shares. Perhaps a class action against the directors and auditors might yield something. Then again it would probably take 200 years to settle, make a lot of lawyers very rich and leave shareholders with nothing.
#Carantoc is not qualified to provide financial advice. You should read the PDS on Carantoc's Sseabreeze.com.au contract terms and seek professional help.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
Amazingly they are both overvalued. Or we could rather say their value ( Tesla and Bitcoin) are based purely on hopes/ beliefs not fundamental data.
Tesla value is also based on US government pumping money into the economy by stock market channeling Tesla has no product to offer for that money at sufficient quantity- needs to channel those money somewhere.
Apparently whole Tesla net profit is made due to grand and bonuses from state, not sales and customers.
So from now we have a Santa Claus coming every Weekend with bags of free money.
Australia did follow with another shot of 100 bln freshly printed KoalaCoins.But crunch time is commin soon.China is about to release their international version of digital yuan this year.So world is going to decide what to buy and invest:into money that you could buy some physical goods and infrastructure? or virtual money printed limitless with nothing behind to cover, but faith.
Well bugger me.
For the first time ever Macro has not only made sense but also made me giggle with the sarcasm and depressive negativity.
I'll give it 4 stars for that one Macro.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..evlPanda said..
Tesla bought $1.5B in bitcoin. Finally.
Amazingly they are both overvalued. Or we could rather say their value ( Tesla and Bitcoin) are based purely on hopes/ beliefs not fundamental data.
When you read up on some of these tech wonder companies, it looks similar. These companies have valuations that surely cannot reflect their actual value.
I think in some of these companies the major shareholders are effectively limited in what they can sell.
I see some of these companies in the news and I really wonder where the value is. I can understand why they buy up smaller companies with share trades, but actual cash value?
I think (and this may not have much basis in reality) that a lot of companies are valued at crazy numbers because the venture capitalists have structured them this way.
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..
Tesla bought $1.5B in bitcoin. Finally.
Wouldn't this be a signal to get out of Bitcoin? The way I read it is Tesla are speculating on the value going up and then cashing out, so why would you want to hold Bitcoin?
Tesla have no reason to 'invest' in Bitcoin, so why are they buying? Speculation? Elon's going bust and wants to hide all his money in bitcoin?
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..Macroscien said..
Amazingly they are both overvalued. Or we could rather say their value ( Tesla and Bitcoin) are based purely on hopes/ beliefs not fundamental data.
Tesla value is also based on US government pumping money into the economy by stock market channeling Tesla has no product to offer for that money at sufficient quantity- needs to channel those money somewhere.
Apparently whole Tesla net profit is made due to grand and bonuses from state, not sales and customers.
So from now we have a Santa Claus coming every Weekend with bags of free money.
Australia did follow with another shot of 100 bln freshly printed KoalaCoins.But crunch time is commin soon.China is about to release their international version of digital yuan this year.So world is going to decide what to buy and invest:into money that you could buy some physical goods and infrastructure? or virtual money printed limitless with nothing behind to cover, but faith.
Well bugger me.
For the first time ever Macro has not only made sense but also made me giggle with the sarcasm and depressive negativity.
I'll give it 4 stars for that one Macro.
As to Australian conditions: we have plenty of physical products to offer, sell to the world.
Agriculture, fisheries, minerals, coal and gas, but somehow our government decided that those doesn't matter and we could just print money.
Instead of repairing lost markets for vine, crayfish and wool, beef we could now give yourself more money to inflate house prices even further.We didn't bought fire fighting planes to save us in incoming fire season, but we did send our warships to protect Taiwan and Himalayan,
Where is the nearest county we could now assault safely?Can we assault our firebugs in SA with those?
There was attempt to artificially inflate stock market prices by GameStop , then Silver.By quite a big players.Both failed terribly.Now Tesla and Elon Musk is taking battle over Forex and currency.That will be interesting fight. No company is too big to fail, specifically if play against global foreign currency exchange.
PS> as Cranatoc , i am not providing any investment advice, just expressing my own personal view.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
There was attempt to artificially inflate stock market prices by GameStop , then Silver.By quite a big players.Both failed terribly.
PS> as Cranatoc , i am not providing any investment advice, just expressing my own personal view.
You seemed to have missed the point. No one would have thought they could sustain these prices long-term. The people behind it just wanted the brokers to hurt for a while. Nothing more. It has to fold once people stop buying at these prices, but it sounds like a lot of brokerages lost money waiting for the price to fall.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Macroscien said..
There was attempt to artificially inflate stock market prices by GameStop , then Silver.By quite a big players.Both failed terribly.
PS> as Cranatoc , i am not providing any investment advice, just expressing my own personal view.
You seemed to have missed the point. No one would have thought they could sustain these prices long-term. The people behind it just wanted the brokers to hurt for a while. Nothing more. It has to fold once people stop buying at these prices, but it sounds like a lot of brokerages lost money waiting for the price to fall.
So whole exercise was intendent as a fun? 
www.marketwatch.com/story/robinhood-sued-by-family-of-young-trader-who-killed-himself-11612834124
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..FormulaNova said..Macroscien said..
There was attempt to artificially inflate stock market prices by GameStop , then Silver.By quite a big players.Both failed terribly.
PS> as Cranatoc , i am not providing any investment advice, just expressing my own personal view.
You seemed to have missed the point. No one would have thought they could sustain these prices long-term. The people behind it just wanted the brokers to hurt for a while. Nothing more. It has to fold once people stop buying at these prices, but it sounds like a lot of brokerages lost money waiting for the price to fall.
So whole exercise was intendent as a fun?
www.marketwatch.com/story/robinhood-sued-by-family-of-young-trader-who-killed-himself-11612834124
OH, PUH-LEASE.
The only thing you are pointing out is that there are mentally-ill people with no critical thinking skills dabbling in the share market, just like everywhere else.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..FormulaNova said..Macroscien said..
There was attempt to artificially inflate stock market prices by GameStop , then Silver.By quite a big players.Both failed terribly.
PS> as Cranatoc , i am not providing any investment advice, just expressing my own personal view.
You seemed to have missed the point. No one would have thought they could sustain these prices long-term. The people behind it just wanted the brokers to hurt for a while. Nothing more. It has to fold once people stop buying at these prices, but it sounds like a lot of brokerages lost money waiting for the price to fall.
So whole exercise was intendent as a fun?
www.marketwatch.com/story/robinhood-sued-by-family-of-young-trader-who-killed-himself-11612834124
Now you are mixing two things up.
Yes, it was intended as "fun". Those traders on Reddit wanted to punish hedge funds for short selling and wanted to see if they could do it. Have you not read any of the articles? If you haven't, why are you then commenting on it? You seem to think that they did it because they wanted to make money. I am sure some have though, but that does not appear to be the real motivation.
The second article is about an inexperienced trader that did something stupid because he thought he got himself into huge financial trouble. Even if he had, which turned out not to be the case, no one made him kill himself. He should have just declared bankruptcy and got on with his life.
I doubt Robinhood have a duty of care to educate a trader as to what they can and can't do and what they are and aren't responsible for. What's next, someone else is responsible for people that kill themselves because they bet their life savings on a horse that didn't win?
I do wonder though if this trader could have dodged owing that money to Robinhood. How does this work? I have never traded shares, but if you end up in a position where you owe a lot of money, have you agreed somewhere along the line that you are responsible for servicing a debt if there is a loss on your account? I would think so.
Digital currency will be the future.
It may or may not be bitcoin, however unlikely it may not even be a crypto which has been invented yet.
It could quite easily and possibly be something which china is in the process of implementing currently as the Yuan coin. If it is succesful other countries will follow.
Europe could quite easily have the euro coin........
The reason right now its going up is speculative, and to be honest there is no backing of physical goods for any of the Crypto coins value,, but than again nor is there for the billions and billions of dollars being generated for Covid relief across all nations and economies currently.
It also is a lot harder to tamper with a Crypto electronic ledger than it is to print an extra couple billion in cash and release into an economy.
The whole GME and manipulating the price of silver was never going to go well for anyone, yes it was an interesting social experiment at best but the outcome would never benefit anyone other than a small minority.
Besides the speculation a lot of people are goin into Crypto for perceived future value, and lets not forget that theres all this talk of banning cash and its inevitable that sooner or later with all this printing of money they will be coming for your super....
I reckon you are all overlooking the obvious reason that Tesla bought plenty of Bitcoin.
If they're going to accept Bitcoin from customers who want to buy their cars, they have to be able to make change. If someone comes in with a 1000 Bc note to buy a 995 Bc car they have to be able to reach into the till to give them the 5 Bc change.
There's nothing special about it.
Select to expand quoteMr Milk said..
I reckon you are all overlooking the obvious reason that Tesla bought plenty of Bitcoin.
If they're going to accept Bitcoin from customers who want to buy their cars, they have to be able to make change. If someone comes in with a 1000 Bc note to buy a 995 Bc car they have to be able to reach into the till to give them the 5 Bc change.
There's nothing special about it.
with such difference that Tesla vehicle cost 0.88 Bitcoin
With such progress in Bitcoin prices you will be paying soon 0.025 Btc for anew car
and 0.000004 for coffee.
Yep,
1 house = 1 Btc.
make perfect sense, investing and speculating make sense
since working and manufacturing , producing something, growing food doesn't anymore.
Select to expand quoteRazzonater said..
Digital currency will be the future.
It may or may not be bitcoin, however unlikely it may not even be a crypto which has been invented yet.
It could quite easily and possibly be something which china is in the process of implementing currently as the Yuan coin. If it is succesful other countries will follow.
Europe could quite easily have the euro coin........
The reason right now its going up is speculative, and to be honest there is no backing of physical goods for any of the Crypto coins value,, but than again nor is there for the billions and billions of dollars being generated for Covid relief across all nations and economies currently.
It also is a lot harder to tamper with a Crypto electronic ledger than it is to print an extra couple billion in cash and release into an economy.
The whole GME and manipulating the price of silver was never going to go well for anyone, yes it was an interesting social experiment at best but the outcome would never benefit anyone other than a small minority.
Besides the speculation a lot of people are goin into Crypto for perceived future value, and lets not forget that theres all this talk of banning cash and its inevitable that sooner or later with all this printing of money they will be coming for your super....
@Macro: for all the reasons you accurately listed, about all the money being printed having to go somewhere, is EXACTLY why Bitcoin was invented in the first place.
That extract from the very first block I posted a page or so ago contains a quote from The Times about how the chancellor is on the brink of printing even more money.
There will never be any more than 21M bitcoin. For the first time, ever, absolute scarcity. Read that again, and again, and again.
"The reason right now its going up is speculative, and to be honest there is no backing of physical goods for any of the Crypto coins value..."
E = MC^2
Energy and mass are the same thing. There is a **** ton of energy going into the blockchain. Massive infrastructure now.
It's the *opposite* of virtual money. It is not a spreadsheet in a bank, that some bankers add zeroes to. That's crazy when you think about it. No energy. No mass. 1 dollar weighs the same as 10 dollars.
It's been virtual money since we lost the gold standard.
When you finally "get Bitcoin" you'll say "OH, ****!"
Hahaha, the haters will never get it. They'll just bitch and moan about the winners, who are too busy counting the obscene generational wealth they have made.
Winners and Losers, you know who you are.
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..Razzonater said..
Digital currency will be the future.
It may or may not be bitcoin, however unlikely it may not even be a crypto which has been invented yet.
It could quite easily and possibly be something which china is in the process of implementing currently as the Yuan coin. If it is succesful other countries will follow.
Europe could quite easily have the euro coin........
The reason right now its going up is speculative, and to be honest there is no backing of physical goods for any of the Crypto coins value,, but than again nor is there for the billions and billions of dollars being generated for Covid relief across all nations and economies currently.
It also is a lot harder to tamper with a Crypto electronic ledger than it is to print an extra couple billion in cash and release into an economy.
The whole GME and manipulating the price of silver was never going to go well for anyone, yes it was an interesting social experiment at best but the outcome would never benefit anyone other than a small minority.
Besides the speculation a lot of people are goin into Crypto for perceived future value, and lets not forget that theres all this talk of banning cash and its inevitable that sooner or later with all this printing of money they will be coming for your super....
@Macro: for all the reasons you accurately listed, about all the money being printed having to go somewhere, is EXACTLY why Bitcoin was invented in the first place.
That extract from the very first block I posted a page or so ago contains a quote from The Times about how the chancellor is on the brink of printing even more money.
There will never be any more than 21M bitcoin. For the first time, ever, absolute scarcity. Read that again, and again, and again.
"The reason right now its going up is speculative, and to be honest there is no backing of physical goods for any of the Crypto coins value..."
E = MC^2
Energy and mass are the same thing. There is a **** ton of energy going into the blockchain. Massive infrastructure now.
It's the *opposite* of virtual money. It is not a spreadsheet in a bank, that some bankers add zeroes to. That's crazy when you think about it. No energy. No mass. 1 dollar weighs the same as 10 dollars.
It's been virtual money since we lost the gold standard.
When you finally "get Bitcoin" you'll say "OH, ****!"
Unfortunately the opposite is true.$100 ordinary paper dollars may sit in your drawer for years and doesn't require anything to live for hundred years.
Bitcoin to exist need so much energy that weight equivalent E=mc2 will exceed soon weight of printed banknote.
Beside how do you know that Bitcoin encryption isn't in fact secret government code, totally under control?
You think that all transactions are anonymous -but government may have encoded all information about everyone using it for all transactions.
Same with max amount in circulation.
May be easily to manipulate their own code, but nobody else could really know how many is in circulation, but creator only.
Now they could circulate as many bitcoins as they wish without anybody knowing or able to control.
So Bitcoin could be US invention not some mysterious Japanese freek. Don't you think it could be invented by CIA to secretly pay and have total control? CIAcoin?
Now.
Something interesting is going to happen.
Because China is going to release their own version of crypto currency and for sure need to forbid Bitcoin for their people.So crypto war is going to explode soon.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
how do you know that Bitcoin encryption isn't in fact secret government code, totally under control?
No offence intended, but obviously, you have NFI what you are talking about.
Here's a little primer I read today: www.theage.com.au/business/companies/60-000-and-rising-how-does-bitcoin-work-and-why-is-elon-musk-buying-it-20210209-p570sh.html
Select to expand quotemyscreenname said..Macroscien said..
how do you know that Bitcoin encryption isn't in fact secret government code, totally under control?
No offence intended, but obviously, you have NFI what you are talking about.
Here's a little primer I read today: www.theage.com.au/business/companies/60-000-and-rising-how-does-bitcoin-work-and-why-is-elon-musk-buying-it-20210209-p570sh.html
Don't you think that faking such story is a bit easier then Moon landing?
Am I the only one even to ask if Elon Musk is real person or just comic book character?
Invented to promote government idea, that society is now willing to accept without question asked?
If government offer you ID chipset implant, you will be instantly offended.
But people now queue to have Elon chipset that not only
ID person but totally control brain functions. If government ask you to buy their crypto something, for your hard earned money- you may refuse, but when your here ask you, there is different story.
First trillioner, sending 12,000 satellites that do control whole world internet traffic, rocket that could carry everything , nuke included.
Is it just sci-fi Hollywood scenario or real life person ?
Maybe idea should be further investigated in ( non existing ) Heavy Weather section by our conspiracy theory specialists?There is also ordinary explanation to extraordinary investment of 1.5 bln into Bitcoins. Elon's team cracked encryption code on their supercomputers.
Everyone wants to buy Bitcoins, but nobody wants to pay any tax.
eh... go figure.
Everybody thinks one's a great investment that will benefit your life and the other is a waste one money you should avoid at any cost.
Both are pretty abstract concepts, where you don't actually "buy" anything real - and instead simply trust everything to somebody (or something) you don't know.
Think how much better the world could be if all that money spent locked up individually on nothing was pooled collectively into something.
In old ancient times money did serve as a medium to buy goods, exchange services.So you earn money when you sell or serve.This days this connection disassociated completely.
One may earn money by having money and doing or selling nothing.The other could still sell and serve and never get anything in return. This new model apply both on small scale - person or whole nations. One nation may produce goods, another could just print money to buy them.
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..
Think how much better the world could be if all that money spent locked up individually on nothing was pooled collectively into something.
Sort of like Marxism?
And who would it be better for.... Fidel Castro, Kim Jong-un, Xi Jinping, Vladimir Putin?
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
One may earn money by having money and doing or selling nothing.The other could still sell and serve and never get anything in return. This new model apply both on small scale - person or whole nations. One nation may produce goods, another could just print money to buy them.
Have you missed stuff about how and why exchange rates exist?
@ Macro: we know exactly what Bitcoin is doing, how it works, because it is open source.
github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin
At least those that are literate in the modern sense of the word do. I guess you just have to trust it says what we say it says.
But seriously the above link is Bitcoin's source code. It's open source. Anyone can download it and suggest modifications. It's actually quite a small codebase. Tiny for me. Very nicely written.
Off top of my head the SHA256 stuff, also an open source encryption method used by, well, pretty much everything, like your bank, https and so on. ...anyway I think that file/class is still original as Satoshi wrote it. Unchanged.
