There is some **** ****ery going on.
Might be a Game Changer.
All the retail investors will still end up being the ones burnt.
Like sending 4,000,000 12ft 6Hp tinnies against the US Navy.
Futile
Select to expand quoteWindpasser said..
There is some **** ****ery going on.
Might be a Game Changer.
All the retail investors will still end up being the ones burnt.
Like sending 4,000,000 12ft 6Hp tinnies against the US Navy.
Futile
If the brokers are selling short on these, and the prices are being pumped up by the reddit group, how will this affect the retail investors? I can understand how it will screw the brokers, but why the retail investors?
I don't know much about this industry, so its a genuine question.
They "protect" people by halting trading at will, They limit trades to sell only, then they sell on behalf of the people that "OWN" the shares, not Margins, at the lowest price to cover the 130%+ shorts, there are string being pulled.
They are already calling them Hackers and manipulators. The retail investor gets locked out.
Money will flow back to where it belongs....
It is everywhere so do your own research. I am an just an idiot
twitter.com/alexcutler247/status/1354892034457403395
Technically robbed of $1,000,000US already
Basically the retail investors are gonna get stuck with their $1-2-3-400+ bags.
Already labelled as bad guys by Media (Surprise) especially when the King is call DEEP****INGVALUE
The shorts have been doubled down on by certain entities like Melvins, Citadel, Robins etc, even after they lost 70B already.
If they can make it drop they walk away with it all (totally no manipulation going on)
David vs Goliath was a fairy tale.
Do your own research though.
****ing great to watch but the little guys are not gonna win
"oooh we might get a fine from the SEC or NYAG, lucky we got that 70B back and more:"
ELON is right and the Shorters and $$ Hungry entities need to die.
Wait and see what happens.
4,000,000 6HP tinnies vs the US Navy.
Lots of people already got theirs and they don't want you anywhere near them.
Good luck against the system.
PS: I support the bastards 100% but they gonna get wrecked.
Also the main point is "They all want to cash out near ATH"
What do you think is gonna happen when that occurs.
"But we promised to HOLD forever - nAh **** that cash out NOW"
Let's see if I understand this. Shorters borrow stock and sell it with the aim of buying back in at a lower price.
If the price rises and their borrowed stock is due to be returned they either buy at the higher price and close the deal, or they borrow more stock to return to the original lender.
Since retail investors aren't set up to lend their shares, borowing has to be from the institutions. As long as the institutions hold enough stock to lend, shorting can go on.
However, any sensible institutional investor would be selling this money losing, wildly overvalued stock at the high price to the retail investors who think that they are getting even with Wall St.
So it looks to me like, in the end, some of the shorters lose their shirts and the institutions gain at the expense of them and the retail investors who have bought the stock with the intention of keeping the price high.
Mr Milk we will wait and see
This is really history in the making, telling people they can't buy this stock just because they "like it" because we will lose to much money....
Free Market - Hahahhahahaha
Bow down now and receive mercy
Some people have made money. Ever been fishing?
They borrowed more money and doubled down on their shorts.
Sharemarket should NOT be a casino.
The companies are REAL and not fluff like Crypto
More Regulations please
GME was short sold to the tune of 140% (inc naked shorts) and seems still has some 112% short ratio.
Theoretically, the remaining short sellers (Hedge funds) will have to cover their shorts at some point, presumably to the Reddit crowd who now own a lot of the stock.
Not sure how this is going to end. I took part in the "Crash JP Morgan" in the Silver rally and initially lost US$25k in a 100k trade (Although I got some of it back on the dead cat bounce) when JPM crashed $SIlver.
Whole story only pumped millions of dollars from small investors , not even aware how share market works.
Those money will be then strategically and systematically removed by hedge funds .Because fundamentals behind companies are not great at all, prices must corrected.
Whole Ponzi scheme was funded this time by unaware internet public , but they can not win against AI behind hedge funds investors.
Only few mums and dads get richer at first early stage, then most are going loose everything , as usual. But here as with negative oil prices, we witness another historical discovery, Companies may have negative value too ! So your risk is no longer limited to your amount invested , but can loose more. Example. You bought 1 share worth $100 .After time whole company is worth -10 bln dollars ,
So your corresponding share is now worth negative $100 /
-$100!!!
So far we assumed that listed company that have some cash , assets , profit and did nothing wrong can not suddenly loose all the money.
Ok , may loose 100% max.
But now company may be worth negative because how speculative market works.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
Whole story only pumped millions of dollars from small investors , not even aware how share market works.
Those money will be then strategically and systematically removed by hedge funds .Because fundamentals behind companies are not great at all, prices must corrected.
Whole Ponzi scheme was funded this time by unaware internet public , but they can not win against AI behind hedge funds investors.
Only few mums and dads get richer at first early stage, then most are going loose everything , as usual. But here as with negative oil prices, we witness another historical discovery, Companies may have negative value too ! So your risk is no longer limited to your amount invested , but can loose more. Example. You bought 1 share worth $100 .After time whole company is worth -10 bln dollars ,
So your corresponding share is now worth negative $100 /
-$100!!!
So far we assumed that listed company that have some cash , assets , profit and did nothing wrong can not suddenly loose all the money.
Ok , may loose 100% max.
But now company may be worth negative because how speculative market works.
Did you read this on what actually has happened or is happening? Your post suggests not.
The people on Reddit seemed to want to take revenge on the hedge funds that are selling short and effectively destroying companies (whether they are going to fold or not is irrelevant as you would never know unless there is no interference) due to their short selling. I.e. they pick on a company and short sell which sends a message to the market that they think its going down in value/something is wrong, so investors also dump the stock. The revenge is by buying the same share, pumping up the price, so that those that are short on it will need to pay interest or buy the shares to then cover their position. I.e. they pay interest or eat the loss and buy at the higher price. If they hang on until the reddit people give in, they still pay interest, and if the reddit share holders are spread out enough they may not care enough to sell, which may not bring the price down, so the fund has to eat the loss at some point.
AI has nothing to do with it. In fact if you read the reddit feeds it sounds like some of these investors are listing their shares to sell at crazy prices in the hope that some of these funds have a buy order and didn't specify a maximum price.
The reddit crowd, if they have no need to sell and don't care about the value of the share other than to torture these funds will make the funds lose a bundle to cover their position.
There was some article I read where the author was trying to make out that these hedge funds short selling were actually heroes... obvious BS and the author was trying to defend them for a practice that can bring companies to their knees for no reason other than some fund decides to as they can make money.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
There was some article I read where the author was trying to make out that these hedge funds short selling were actually heroes... obvious BS and the author was trying to defend them for a practice that can bring companies to their knees for no reason other than some fund decides to as they can make money.
An ignorant question perhaps, but how does market manipulation that crashes a companies share price kill the company? The company isn't losing money, it's just the value of the shares held by the public that is fluctuating. What stops the company going about its daily business and paying the appropriate dividend the following quarter, after which the share price can then return to a reasonable P/E ratio.
^^
As I understand it, amongst other reasons, most listed company's loans, interest and banking finance have a clause related to share price.
If the share price drops below a certain value they automatically default on any loan / overdraft / finance agreement and the debt becomes immediately payable.
They may be operating at good profits, able to make the monthly repayments easily, but can't stump the entire loan amount and can't refinance because nobody else will touch them due to a default.
Hence they have no option but to call in the administrators. The loan companies then take over, being secured lenders, and pillage whatever is left.
Select to expand quoteWindpasser said..
...Sharemarket should NOT be a casino...
Is a Financial transaction tax part of the solution ?
Vary the rate not on the size of the transaction but on the duration of the event.
Buy and sell financial products within 24 hours and pay 150% tax.
Hold shares for 5 years pay nothing.
Stop the speculators, day traders and short sellers and reward the investors who are interested in the company not the gamble.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Macroscien said..
Whole story only pumped millions of dollars from small investors , not even aware how share market works.
Those money will be then strategically and systematically removed by hedge funds .Because fundamentals behind companies are not great at all, prices must corrected.
Whole Ponzi scheme was funded this time by unaware internet public , but they can not win against AI behind hedge funds investors.
Only few mums and dads get richer at first early stage, then most are going loose everything , as usual. But here as with negative oil prices, we witness another historical discovery, Companies may have negative value too ! So your risk is no longer limited to your amount invested , but can loose more. Example. You bought 1 share worth $100 .After time whole company is worth -10 bln dollars ,
So your corresponding share is now worth negative $100 /
-$100!!!
So far we assumed that listed company that have some cash , assets , profit and did nothing wrong can not suddenly loose all the money.
Ok , may loose 100% max.
But now company may be worth negative because how speculative market works.
Did you read this on what actually has happened or is happening? Your post suggests not.
The people on Reddit seemed to want to take revenge on the hedge funds that are selling short and effectively destroying companies (whether they are going to fold or not is irrelevant as you would never know unless there is no interference) due to their short selling. I.e. they pick on a company and short sell which sends a message to the market that they think its going down in value/something is wrong, so investors also dump the stock. The revenge is by buying the same share, pumping up the price, so that those that are short on it will need to pay interest or buy the shares to then cover their position. I.e. they pay interest or eat the loss and buy at the higher price. If they hang on until the reddit people give in, they still pay interest, and if the reddit share holders are spread out enough they may not care enough to sell, which may not bring the price down, so the fund has to eat the loss at some point.
AI has nothing to do with it. In fact if you read the reddit feeds it sounds like some of these investors are listing their shares to sell at crazy prices in the hope that some of these funds have a buy order and didn't specify a maximum price.
The reddit crowd, if they have no need to sell and don't care about the value of the share other than to torture these funds will make the funds lose a bundle to cover their position.
There was some article I read where the author was trying to make out that these hedge funds short selling were actually heroes... obvious BS and the author was trying to defend them for a practice that can bring companies to their knees for no reason other than some fund decides to as they can make money.
Internet community may artificially inflate price only for certain time.Hedge funds can go both ways , long or short. but their decision is made based on Artificial Intelligence analysis.
They just follow trends, usually without the need to manipulate market.Small investors in this example are doomed later or sooner because share price will not remain artificially inflated forever. Typical Ponzi, this time spread by social media scheme. There are always finish the same.The next will be big Cry how those big fund again stole money from those greedy dad and mums.There will be call for more regulation of course. Maybe government should cover loses again of those greedy internet mums and dads? Stock market is casino and be rather prepared to loose your money rather then earn.Casino but rigged now by AI, in such way that you can not win against it.
What is absolutely disgusting:
Those Robin Hood is telling you that they and you now fight agains big Wall Street players.
In fact they do rob you , or any any followers from their money,How it works.Robin Hood do buy 1000 shared on stock market, of any company, but relatively small ( any to manipulate with little funds) .Then advertise on social media : buy this stock in order to beat Wall Street .Thousands of people invest and obviously price goes up.Robin Hood sell their 1000 shares at profit now,Then even sell another 1000 shares short. They advertise again on social media - Now take your profit and sell shares.Obviously price will collapse instantly. Only Robin Hood made profit and % followers. The rest is going to loose their investment.
So if not yet then very soon social media should be forbidden to fabricate such artificial stock manipulation. Beside those Hedge Funds represent mainly your retirement funds investment, so playing against your own retirement may not be very wise too.
Select to expand quoteChris_M said..
Joke all you like but remember:
This affects real people
Who own multiple yachts
And super funds and 401k accounts that use the hedgefunds who were shorting..................this affects so many indirectly, not just the hedgefund managers
usual price never exceeded $20 and most of the time was about $5
what happen now
means the for your $325 investment in single share,
smart hedge fund manager can get $300 profit.
Select to expand quoteAJEaster said..Chris_M said..
Joke all you like but remember:
This affects real people
Who own multiple yachts
And super funds and 401k accounts that use the hedgefunds who were shorting..................this affects so many indirectly, not just the hedgefund managers
My edit got mucked up, but why are the hedge funds doing this anyway, if its not just to profit by making soneone else the loser and taking the money from it?
The original share holders are the losers and its pretty poor if these funds do this just to get a return instead of basing their buys and sells on what they think a company is worth.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
usual price never exceeded $20 and most of the time was about $5
what happen nowmeans the for your $325 investment in single share, smart hedge fund manage can get $300 profit.
I hope you are not a 'smart hedge fund manager'. Maybe you are?
It seems that the reddit community are now preparing to unleash the worlds biggest short squeeze on Silver. Unfortunately, the likes of JPM have a direct line of infinite credit form the FED reserve....
I wouldn't be worried if some small hedge funds blow up on GME, AMC and NOK etc. However, if the likes of JPM gets into trouble it could be another Lehman moment.
Having said that, we are in the time of endless credit and endless money supply.
Select to expand quoteStorm Ahead said..
It seems that the reddit community are now preparing to unleash the worlds biggest short squeeze on Silver. Unfortunately, the likes of JPM have a direct line of infinite credit form the FED reserve....
I wouldn't be worried if some small hedge funds blow up on GME, AMC and NOK etc. However, if the likes of JPM gets into trouble it could be another Lehman moment.
Having said that, we are in the time of infinite credit and endless money supply.
.I can not even imagine how stock marker brokers , funds managers could loose money on widely advertised action intended to direct prices in one direction. Funds can earn money on any movements up taking long position - Buy, or on falling prices- sell short. As long as they are prepared , not surprised any movement is money spinner. But one widely advertised action against funds is the dammest way to loose your money
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..
.I can not even imagine how stock marker brokers , funds managers could loose money on widely advertised action intended to direct prices in one direction. Funds can earn money on any movements up taking long position - Buy, or on falling prices- sell short. As long as they are prepared , not surprised any movement is money spinner. But one widely advertised action against funds is the dammest way to loose your money
Easy. They didn't know or expect that a lot of individuals would do this. A company wouldn't, well it would be unlikely. They have been arrogant in thinking that they have the power to run this scheme and not have any/much risk.
Do the maths. If they short sell the share at $3, and it goes to $303, then there is $300 to makeup to cover their positions. Citron seemed to have cut their losses at $90, but for those that haven't they will be paying interest or worried that it will continue long enough where they cannot cover it or have lost a bunch in interest.
If this resolves itself with normal free-market trades, then these funds will be a bit more wary about short selling and then talking down stocks.
The media stories are a bit mixed up. They seem to talk about individual investors that have lost their life savings... but when you read the detail its more like they are long term investors on the group that have lost their savings in other trades in the past. At the moment, anyone that has bought GME has lost nothing and when they all jump out, maybe they will lose their original investment, maybe not. The funds that have sold short will need to buy up to cover their position and this means they have to buy at whatever the current price is.
Select to expand quoteMacroscien said..Storm Ahead said..
It seems that the reddit community are now preparing to unleash the worlds biggest short squeeze on Silver. Unfortunately, the likes of JPM have a direct line of infinite credit form the FED reserve....
I wouldn't be worried if some small hedge funds blow up on GME, AMC and NOK etc. However, if the likes of JPM gets into trouble it could be another Lehman moment.
Having said that, we are in the time of infinite credit and endless money supply.
.I can not even imagine how stock marker brokers , funds managers could loose money on widely advertised action intended to direct prices in one direction. Funds can earn money on any movements up taking long position - Buy, or on falling prices- sell short. As long as they are prepared , not surprised any movement is money spinner. But one widely advertised action against funds is the dammest way to loose your money
If you look at the detail, some of the hedge funds doubled down on their short position not expecting the rally to continue. ie. they are still betting that the reddit crowd would capitulate (sell) due to the system being rigged against them. Robinhood, IG Markets etc have restricted the accounts of these traders where they can only sell but buy only 1 share in a variety of stocks that the hedge funds are predominantly short. A classic example of the wealthy being protected against an army of ordinary people.
It's been said before, the reddit crowd don't seem care if they loose their money as long as they can kick Wall Street in the teeth for once. Some of these guys saw their parents loose everything during the GFC and Wall Street get bailed out and profit from the collapse.
