advise needed on new wingfoil setup: Axis vs Armstrong

Can only comment on AXIS:

I have the 75cm Aluminium mast, ultra crazy short fuse and 1010, 1150 front foils and 340/370 rears.

1150 is good for me from 12knots up. Rides well in flat or swell. Excellent glide.

The 1010 was great, but once I got the 1150 I never used it again because of the improved glide in the 1150.

Here we go again.

Axis 1150/910 or Armstrong 1850/1250:

Both are excellent choices and the correct (best) wings from each company IMO, however they are very different foils. The Axis is higher aspect (AR 6-7) while the Armstrong is low to mid aspect (AR 4-5). I have experience with both and I can tell you that the Aspect Ratio matters. In a nutshell, the Axis pumps and glides better while the Armstrong is more agile and carves better.

I'm curious to ask why don't you want to stick to Moses? They have just released a w950. Not that I've tried moses but I've read they are fast.

I'm warning you there's a lot of Armstrong fanbois/koolaid on this forum best would be to demo where possible. Oh and if it's just for wing I wouldn't bother work the axis S series. The new HPS and BSC series are the future....

I find the Moses 1100 too big and slow whatever the speed some pro's are reaching...
I might test it with the 425 stab as 450 is very slow.
About carving: there are no waves when the wind is light...
The 790 I need too much effort to get up on the foil and there is a lack of glide, this doesn't help me to get some manoevers dialed (tacks etc)
950 could be good for me but I find the choice quite limited...
Therefor looking for other options.
Armstrong I could eventually test but not Axis nor 950.

B series look goed but HPS I am not sure I could get up on the foil at 14-15 knots with my 100kg.
Or BCS but can't find any info (even the website is not up to date)

Talking only winging here.

My main concern is the construction of the foil. Specifically the mast to fuse connection. I would not recommend the male to female mast to fuse connection. This is the weak point on foils using that setup. I like to jump and that is the failure point I've experienced. I would only go with 1 piece like for example the GoFoil or a more robust option like the Armstrong or Starboard type connections. Just my 2 cents.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
Emmafoils how much better does the 910 pump compared to the older 900? Is it significant ? Because the 1250 armie pumps and glides significantly better than the 900. But Obviously I haven't ridden the 910.

Never tried the 900. The 1250 is a great foil and actually not that different from the 910. The bigger difference is between the 1150 and the 1850. (I should have made that distinction in my comments above.)

Select to expand quote

foilthegreats said..
My main concern is the construction of the foil. Specifically the mast to fuse connection. I would not recommend the male to female mast to fuse connection. This is the weak point on foils using that setup. I like to jump and that is the failure point I've experienced. I would only go with 1 piece like for example the GoFoil or a more robust option like the Armstrong or Starboard type connections. Just my 2 cents.

Go Foil and Axis are considered the stiffest masts with a strong connection with the fuse. Piros mentions this somewhere on the forum.

Select to expand quote

Alysum said..

foilthegreats said..
My main concern is the construction of the foil. Specifically the mast to fuse connection. I would not recommend the male to female mast to fuse connection. This is the weak point on foils using that setup. I like to jump and that is the failure point I've experienced. I would only go with 1 piece like for example the GoFoil or a more robust option like the Armstrong or Starboard type connections. Just my 2 cents.

Go Foil and Axis are considered the stiffest masts with a strong connection with the fuse. Piros mentions this somewhere on the forum.

Select to expand quote

Alysum said..

foilthegreats said..
My main concern is the construction of the foil. Specifically the mast to fuse connection. I would not recommend the male to female mast to fuse connection. This is the weak point on foils using that setup. I like to jump and that is the failure point I've experienced. I would only go with 1 piece like for example the GoFoil or a more robust option like the Armstrong or Starboard type connections. Just my 2 cents.

Go Foil and Axis are considered the stiffest masts with a strong connection with the fuse. Piros mentions this somewhere on the forum.

Mast stiffness is just 1 factor and comes down to preference. As I stated the GoFoil is a good choice as the mast and fuse is 1 piece carbon fibre construction. When jumping there is extreme force on the mast to fuse connection area. Frankieboy is asking about the Axis carbon mast that is just seated in a fuse. The male to female style. If you're not jumping this is not much of a concern but if you plan on going there I wouldn't recommend this type of construction. The aluminum Axis is obviously more robust because of the doodad.

It's interesting in that you can draw a comparison between kite design and front foil design.
ultra high aspect kites (let's say a race foil kite or for ease of understanding say a kite like the older ozone edges)... Just stating the obvious of course


Rips upwind, flat projection, rides super fast, highly efficient hence can be ridden with enough apparent power in the light end of of its wind range etc) can be akin to a flat high aspect front foil wing. But difficult (crap) to use in waves.

to the other end of the spectrum - let's say a true wave kite like the ozone reo etc). Numpty, fat, inefficient, but can drift back into the pocket for wave riding. Kind of like a low aspect front wing like say the older axis 680/750/920 range.
then there is the whole spectrum in between.

I would liken say the 1250 armie (and maybe the 910 axis to say the duotone evo - or maybe a slightly higher aspect evo. It offers versatility. Is relatively efficient, can be ridden at high speeds and can glide, but also has some slower speed versatility and carving potential on a wave. So good for blasting on downwind swells but can also be ridden in waves well enough with the right user.
So it depends of your aims and what versatility you are looking for.

for example I've got mates who only like to ding waves only, they won't even bother ocean downwind swell riding, and they are still on the old axis S series (and other equivalents) because they are numpty and slow.
anybow suppose what I am saying is use a kite analogy to work through what you really need.

I reckon I doesn't matter either axis or Armstrong.

although I personally have a massive issue with the number and rate axis bang out new stuff to the point of incompatibility with older wings. Then there is doodads and nee fuselages needed and and and and .... Crew are forking our big coin and having their current setups devalue quickly as this new stuff comes out.

as soon as the black series came out, and you needed a new fuse and even that wasn't carbon I was like, "I'm done" and sold all my axis gear.

I'm sure it will settle by until it does, I'm off axis for this reason alone. Don't doubt the quality of their product though. It's top notch but .... but hey if you are coined up and love the journey of new stuff go for it I say. The black series gear looks sick.

eppo many including myself are annoyed about the Axis range and no carbon fuselage plus the Axis carbon mast is quite heavy. The HPS front wings are really fast with insane glide so it's a tough decision for me for which foil to invest next in (plus I also kite foil with the S series). I know a guy who actually switched from Armstrong HS1250/232 to Axis HPS980/420 for winging.

You do need to applaud Axis for pushing out so many options to suit everyone's needs though.

If Armstrong had HA wings I probably would have switched to Armstrong but right now Armie isn't interested in HA (despite showing some prototypes). HA wings is what I currently ride and want for my next foil
Hence I am looking at other options such as Unifoil Hyper which is a real nice kit, super loose fast and good glide. Just that there is very little presence down under for used parts. Same story with F one Phantom.

Select to expand quote

DWF said..

Frankieboy said..
Hi,

I read all good things about those foils so what are your thoughts on those 2 setups:

Axis: carbon mast, HPS1050 + HPS930 OR 1150 + 910
Armstrong: HS1850 + HS1250

100kg intermediate, from 15 to 30 knots on open sea, the more wind the more waves
Looking to ride (wind)waves and start wing-downwinding

Anyone experience with those foils? I am moving from a Moses setup 1100/790

OK best is to demo but it is freezing over here and I can't get demo gear for all those options...

Tx

I owned HS1850 and HS1250. Now I own HPS1050 and HPS980 and have ridden HPS930.

The HPS definitely glides much farther (with no skill or pumping required) when you just let off the gas (meaning flag the wing from the nose handle and just surf) than either of those Armstrong foils.

The PNG1150 and PNG910 are ideal for pump and glide surfing, "without a wing ding". Once you add the wing ding, the HPS is king of the world in my opinion.

Cool info. And you've ridden and owned both so there you go...that's why it's good to share experiences. Do they carve as well?

What ever floats your boat. Axis good value, glide, heavy, lots of maintenance, low resale due to so many new wings and connections. Armstrong expensive, carving, light, user friendly, low maintenance, good resale due to standard connection not changing. I love the silence of my Armstrong after have a humming Axis. Personal preference and everyone believes they have invested in the best. Demo if you can.

Select to expand quote

DWF said..

I owned HS1850 and HS1250. Now I own HPS1050 and HPS980 and have ridden HPS930.

would 1050/930 be a good combo for wingdinging from 15 to 30 knots?

any idea of the lowend for a 100kg intermediate


tx

Personally I prefer wahine tail, but I no judge.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..

DWF said..

eppo said..

Do they carve as well?

The HPS carves better than the PNG series and it carries more speed through the carve and comes out with more speed.

The HS1250 carves quicker rail to rail, I think. But I just added the Kane tail to my HPS980, and now I'd say it might carve quicker. The HPS980 comes out of each turn with more speed than the HS1250 for sure, with any tail.

The "Kane" tail ??

KDmaui look him up.