Greetings to all members!.
I have been wingfoiling for a relatively short time, and I am reaching out to the more experienced for help with a dispute I am having with the GONG brand.
The situation is that in March, I bought a carbon board (Mint 5?4 FSP Pro), and less than a month later, after using it on just three occasions, the board was completely warped and delaminated in more than 60% of the surface!
I am currently in a dispute with the brand because they claim it's not a warranty issue but rather a case of misuse by leaving it in the sun. However, the board was always in its cover, and the only time it was in the sun was during the short period it takes to set up the gear. Furthermore, it was still late winter at that time. In response, they told me that:"It's well documented that even brief exposure to intense sunlight, especially behind a car windshield or in a sunny environment, even on relatively cool days around 17-18?C, can easily raise the board's surface temperature up to 90?C or higher causing this kind of damage.
Are these boards really that delicate? I understand that some delamination can be caused by temperature, but in such a short period of time? And over such a large surface area? If this is the case, how should we be using our boards? This is the first time I have owned a carbon board; I have never had this type of problem with fiberglass boards, whether for wingfoil, surfing, paddleboarding, etc.. The person i talked with seems to be quite nice and I refuse to think they are cheating, because a single board issue.
Any opinion is more than welcome. Thanks!!!
I had a gong board in the past (lemon fsp pro). The paint chipped of just by looking at it. Sold it quickly.
I leave all my boards in the lying in the sun for an hour or two while on lunch break for example. It's no secret that prolonged sun exposure is not good for anything, but never did I have delamination issues or anything. All carbon boards.
It's also well known that Gong boards are ****. Their wings and foils seem to be okay, but the boards just seem to break like nothing else.
Leaving it in a cover in the sun is a sure way to kill a board. Always remove from cover if it will be in the sun for any length of time, lighter colours upward.
Select to expand quoteairsail said..
Leaving it in a cover in the sun is a sure way to kill a board. Always remove from cover if it will be in the sun for any length of time, lighter colours upward.
Ok gotta ask why? Have you done any experiments re temp inside & outside board bags? I've been wondering about this so have tried temp reading inside & outside & have found inside is cooler. This is with a silver insulated board bag.
I have a couple of Gong FSPro carbon Crusaders and haven't had your issue but know someone who did.
Maybe have a look under the Goretex vent plug if you havent already. The hole under one of mine was blocked and no way core was going to vent. So I just cleaned it out and increased the hole under the plug.
Seems to be a body of opinion that the Goretex plugs are pretty useless anyway.
If your vent hole is blocked and you can prove it to Gong that would be a warranty issue I would think.
Hope you get it sorted.
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..airsail said..
Leaving it in a cover in the sun is a sure way to kill a board. Always remove from cover if it will be in the sun for any length of time, lighter colours upward.
Ok gotta ask why? Have you done any experiments re temp inside & outside board bags? I've been wondering about this so have tried temp reading inside & outside & have found inside is cooler. This is with a silver insulated board bag.
Well, its not good for a crap paintjob if the board is wet, aside from that the board is better protected in a board bag. It'll take it a bit longer to heat up, and no UV exposure.
to the OP, do wing boards have bungs (vent plugs)? Leaving a board in the sun, vent plug in ain't good, but sounds like gong have jumped straight to excuses.
Boards do heat right up in hot cars, 90 degrees, no, but yeah they do get warm. but a properly constructed board shouldn't just delaminate from in car temps. I've left boards in car on 40+ days before with no ill effect. Try to avoid it, but no under cover parking at work.
I had the same problem with a 2025 diamond FSP Pro. Delamination at the tail after a few weeks use. The cause,
according to Gong, was flying with it, leaving the vent plug installed. No blockage in it. They offered a 30% discount on a new board. My answer, 0% chance I'll ever buy a gong board again.
I had the same problem with a 2025 diamond FSP Pro. Delamination at the tail after a few weeks use. The cause,
according to Gong, was flying with it, leaving the vent plug installed. No blockage in it. They offered a 30% discount on a new board. My answer, 0% chance I'll ever buy a gong board again.
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..airsail said..
Leaving it in a cover in the sun is a sure way to kill a board. Always remove from cover if it will be in the sun for any length of time, lighter colours upward.
Ok gotta ask why? Have you done any experiments re temp inside & outside board bags? I've been wondering about this so have tried temp reading inside & outside & have found inside is cooler. This is with a silver insulated board bag.
A board will cook if left inside a bag on top of a car, always remove it from the bag. The heat rises inside the bag and can't escape due to the bags insulation. Eventually the air inside the board expands so much it delams the board.
Doesn't sound like it's experienced any heat
their website shows it has no vent? I am calling likely not wet out properly somewhere so I'd have a proper repairer - who builds sandwich boards - have a look inside then argue with Gong.
Their warranty policies seem to be hard to predict. Have heard similar stories before but also people who had torn wings repaired by them in no time, so obviously a bit of luck seeems to be needed.
I would suppose a production issue.
And no, these boards aren't generally crappy.
Having killed two AK phazers over three years and running out of warranty, I went for Gong for budget reasons and the boards hold up very well.
I have been riding a 2024 Mint 85 since last autumn and it has been out on the water in anything from Bavarian winter (water temp 4?C) to a month of Greek summer (no idea how hot it was during the day, but night temperatures didn't fall below 30 for a couple of weeks) with the board sitting in the sun for hours repeatedly (I know you shouldn't do this but with the whole family sharing the boards around this is just what happens). I'm between 85 and 90 kilos and don't do serious freestyle, but it has seen brutal chop, winds up to forty knots and the occasional FS360 with my landings being subject to chance, thus some of them pretty flat.
This summer we got a 2025 Mint 105 for the learners in the family, removed the ridiculous "do not expose to direct sunlight" stickers and treated it the same as the other one.
On both boards there are minor abrasions from sand, rocks and the wing's leading edge, but nothing else.
I must be lucky, if all their boards were that well-built, one would assume the could afford to be more liberal towards warranty claims.
By the way, they do come with a vent plug, it is a Gore Tex valve and sits in the carrying handle.
In a nutshell: Insist and get on their nerves! What you describe shouldn't hurt any board, be it Gong or any other brand.
On the 90C in cars, may be possible in extreme cases (heatwaves), especially black cars with lots of windows.
It can go to 65C within 40 minutes in Canada with 35C outside.
canadasafetycouncil.org/hot-car-warning/
You can even cook eggs.
eu.ydr.com/videos/news/local/2024/06/21/this-heatwave-can-cook-an-egg-on-the-dashboard-of-a-car/74162709007/
Seems unlikely by 18C in mild climates, however.
Epoxy in boards begins to soften above 50C, so they resist less to internal pressure buildup. So delamination can happen, and the board life shortened even if no apparent damage.
However, board bags DO really help, as they [1] prevent temperature buildup by direct sun exposure when left outside if white or reflective [2] delay (but not prevent) the temperature increase inside a car.
Just take care to leave the zip open on at least 2' to let moisture get out to avoid osmosis.
On the other hand, all my (Gong) boards have been stored inside bags in my white wan, with no windows, 24/7 all year long, parked outside in the sun. Never had an issue.
This said, your issue is tricky to manage for brands, as there is no way for you to prove your story, and most vendors know that people can lie.
Select to expand quotekitesem said..
I had the same problem with a 2025 diamond FSP Pro. Delamination at the tail after a few weeks use. The cause,
according to Gong, was flying with it, leaving the vent plug installed. No blockage in it. They offered a 30% discount on a new board. My answer, 0% chance I'll ever buy a gong board again.
From that board's web page there is a link to download the user guide, which states following about the vent screw. Looks quite well explained and justified, and not that difficult.
Thanks for the feedback! I definitely think I'm going to keep pursuing my claim, although I'm afraid it's going to be difficult. As for the bag, I usually leave the boards inside, wet after coming out of the water-I never thought moisture could cause any damage to equipment designed for water sports!Select to expand quotekitesem said..
I had the same problem with a 2025 diamond FSP Pro. Delamination at the tail after a few weeks use. The cause,
according to Gong, was flying with it, leaving the vent plug installed. No blockage in it. They offered a 30% discount on a new board. My answer, 0% chance I'll ever buy a gong board again.
I was offered the same 30% discount on a new board, but after this bad experience, it doesn't seem like a reasonable option.
Select to expand quoteSupervari said..
As for the bag, I usually leave the boards inside, wet after coming out of the water-I never thought moisture could cause any damage to equipment designed for water sports!
Osmosis can happen with all types of boards and all brands, if you pack a wet board into bag for an extended period of time.
This is different to using the board for surfing / foiling.
Supervari - osmosis is cosmetic damage to paint due to moisture in a bag. nobody is suggesting that caused your issue, it's mentioned as an aside
no board delaminates in up to 25c ambient temp, bag or not. in a car in say 40c plus it might hit 70c and cause problems but that appears to not be the case here
white paint reduces the surface temp compared to bare carbon by sooooo much that Gong is telling you rubbish. Take them to task on it.
Select to expand quoteSupervari said..
I never thought moisture could cause any damage to equipment designed for water sports!
Osmosis is a problem even for boats... Google "osmosis boats"
www.boatsurveyor.net/boat-surveyor-osmosis-explained/
In SUPs, the problem exists only for painted boards (or varnish or gel coat, or...). Boards with "naked" epoxy (e.g. most Custom boards) do not suffer from it... but they require more care and time to build, so are more expensive.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
white paint reduces the surface temp compared to bare carbon
+1
If the finish is "brushed carbon", the white paint is partially removed by sanding, so the carbon can get exposed to sunlight, depending on the amount of brushing. I.E., the greyer the board, the more it can heat.
With an opaque white paint, there is no difference between carbon and fiberglass wrt sun exposure.
However, the current FSP pro Mint do seem quite white, only slightly brushed, from the web pages.
Is this some kind of production issue. I've repaired and used delamed surfboards one from a very good source so I wonder if its more an issue at the time of resin application. At my local spot boards are on and in cars and on the beach for hours ( summer over 35*) - no issues, some boards are black and get insanely hot. Mate of mine leaves all his boards on his car roof 24/7 and has been doing so for over 20 years, he's too busy or too crazy to take them off all the time. I have a Gong board and it's been amazing for the last 3 years. I feel for the buyer.
Bags cook boards, but without more info and pictures this is just random speculation.
Well, late winter and used 3x is pretty telling
but yes needs to go to an expert to rip off the delam and have a look.
I've had so many wingfoil boards fail. Without going into details, there is clearly a problem with production quality control in China; however, If you put a wet board in a dark colored bag with the zipper closed, you could easily steam a painted board such that it the entire board popped it's lamination, but you'd need a very hot day and hours in the sun. You should keep a board in a white only bag as I've seen bags that were half dark colored cause a localized delam. Always keep the zipper open at least a foot if not more. If the board is white or yellow, it should be fine in the sun, anything else will be noticeably hot to the touch and if the board wasn't proberly made, will start off-gassing and delam. No board made of EPS and Carbon should overheat in the sun or need a vent plug removed unless flying. I've left full black carbon in the sun for hours on a 30C day with no issue. I've seen crappy boards bubble in just a few minutes and that is a warranty imo.
Select to expand quoteHwy1North said..
No board made of EPS and Carbon should overheat in the sun or need a vent plug removed
That's definitively not true, because:
- Goretex vents have a limited airflow, so pressure can buildup if the increase in temperature is sudden
- epoxy softens above 50C, meaning that it can delaminate with less pressure than normal. Both because weakening of the "skin" rigidity and the "glueing" of the skin to the blank.
I have touched boards with black rails in the sun, the epoxy was definitively soft there under the fingers.
Plus, there is a huge (bad) luck factor. I have seen boards with exposed carbon delaminate in 15mn in winter in Italy. But others will have no issue.
Appletree boards are black, carbon, no vent plug and the few local ones survive UK sun. During years windsurfing only heard of one problem, a shop unloaded a delivery in the sun and before they could get inside one 'exploded'.
+1 colas
hwy1 there is so many fallacies in there I dunno where to start! Firstly EPS doesn't off gas like XPS and delam can be for a number of reasons. Wet in the bag had nothing to do with heat damage. At all
Colas and Mark,
Didn't mean to get your panties in a wrinkle! I just think the OP didn't blow his board unless left in a car in Dubai, or other serious neglet, and that the Gong factory probably used some polyester based bondo to finish the board somewhere in the lamination, and it gassed off with heat that a "well made" board wouldn't have.
I would think if a board made by Appletree, Amos, or Majek for example, had a significant chance of delamination if left in the sun for a bit, they would paint them white and install vent plugs at minimum.
I've seen painted windsurf boards cooked in wet boardbags that were steaming when removed. Perhaps the delam only occured due to water inside the board from previous leaking vent plug or something, but the idea of osmosis has me leaving the zipper open for peace of mind regardless of science.
And white is better, so I stand by my frustration that board bag manufacturers sell dark colors.
Select to expand quoteHwy1North said..
Colas and Mark,
Didn't mean to get your panties in a wrinkle! I just think the OP didn't blow his board unless left in a car in Dubai, or other serious neglet, and that the Gong factory probably used some polyester based bondo to finish the board somewhere in the lamination, and it gassed off with heat that a "well made" board wouldn't have.
I would think if a board made by Appletree, Amos, or Majek for example, had a significant chance of delamination if left in the sun for a bit, they would paint them white and install vent plugs at minimum.
I've seen painted windsurf boards cooked in wet boardbags that were steaming when removed. Perhaps the delam only occured due to water inside the board from previous leaking vent plug or something, but the idea of osmosis has me leaving the zipper open for peace of mind regardless of science.
And white is better, so I stand by my frustration that board bag manufacturers sell dark colors.
Well, clearly white things reflect heat better than black things, with many variations on the spectrum in between.
There is no question about that.
However, fashion often has a bigger influence on colour choices than practicality does. People continue to choose the dark colours! Just look around at all the vehicles on the roads and you'll see clear evidence of that: so many black or dark grey cars, and motorcyclists almost unanimously choosing black clothing despite the heat issue as well as a somewhat obvious risk to life and limb due being harder to see!
Select to expand quoteSandee said..
Well, clearly white things reflect heat better than black things
No exactly. White things reflect the direct sunlight.
But when in an oven, i.e. a car whose internal air itself is hot, white wont protect the board: everything in the car not directly under the sunlight will end up at thermal equilibrium (same temp as the rest of the car), bag or no bag.
Select to expand quotecolas said..Sandee said..
Well, clearly white things reflect heat better than black things
No exactly. White things reflect the direct sunlight.
But when in an oven, i.e. a car whose internal air itself is hot, white wont protect the board: everything in the car not directly under the sunlight will end up at thermal equilibrium (same temp as the rest of the car), bag or no bag.
Very true.
Opening a window or two a little will help drop in car temps quite a lot, just by letting the hot air escape
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
Opening a window or two a little will help drop in car temps quite a lot, just by letting the hot air escape
Yes, and there is even a study about it:www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/15/17/6411
