Is it always the manu and shops fault?
If the mast broke second, could the first accident that ripped out the foil box also have damaged the mast?
Are N.... 1st gen wide chord alu mast suspect?
Why are we avoiding the company name?
Why can't you figure out what company?
Or does it not matter?
Your original question is if it's expected to break foiling gear in normal use -- answer is no.
Myself and our crew have had lots of experience breaking gear, especially in the early days of sup foiling. But only when substantial forces involved: hit bottom at speed, or get smashed by a big wave with a big foil, or fall on top of mast/foil.
This is also made more likely when the gear is sub-par quality, poorly installed, or already partially broken or weakened: aluminum masts bend and can be straightened, but are forever weaker, carbon masts presumably can get stressed and eventually break (not yet happened, knock on wood), foil tracks may get some movement and then leverage and then fail with early signs being flexing in the glass around them. The biggie for foil box failures was not having high density foam below or something structural to tie the tracks to the deck....haven't seen one of those in a while, as builders seem to have figured out what doesn't work. Though beware the cheapo foil boards, if you can see the tracks have been installed directly on top of EPS foam, stay away.
Hope you get your gear sorted quick and get back on the water.
Of utmost importance is what gear was used, since some of us can recall history as applied to such gear.
If we know said gear had histories of failures, warrantee should be applied. But 1st and most important, what gear? ie foil mast.
And did rider fall atop his board while up on foil?
Select to expand quoteGoofcat said..
OP, it's hard to imagine how you did anything wrong that would cause the level of damage in both incidences (tracks ripping out, mast breaking). Glad the local shop is taking care of it. Hope they lend you gear to ride in the mean time.
They have been fantastic, could not ask for a better service Thanks.
Select to expand quotejuandesooka said..
Your original question is if it's expected to break foiling gear in normal use -- answer is no.
Myself and our crew have had lots of experience breaking gear, especially in the early days of sup foiling. But only when substantial forces involved: hit bottom at speed, or get smashed by a big wave with a big foil, or fall on top of mast/foil.
This is also made more likely when the gear is sub-par quality, poorly installed, or already partially broken or weakened: aluminum masts bend and can be straightened, but are forever weaker, carbon masts presumably can get stressed and eventually break (not yet happened, knock on wood), foil tracks may get some movement and then leverage and then fail with early signs being flexing in the glass around them. The biggie for foil box failures was not having high density foam below or something structural to tie the tracks to the deck....haven't seen one of those in a while, as builders seem to have figured out what doesn't work. Though beware the cheapo foil boards, if you can see the tracks have been installed directly on top of EPS foam, stay away.
Hope you get your gear sorted quick and get back on the water.
Thanks, it is getting replaced under warranty. Local shop has been fantastic.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Is it always the manu and shops fault?
If the mast broke second, could the first accident that ripped out the foil box also have damaged the mast?
Are N.... 1st gen wide chord alu mast suspect?
Why are we avoiding the company name?
Why can't you figure out what company?
Or does it not matter?
From what rgmacca has described and from what we've all seen in comments, it looks most likely that it's a gear failure.
How about we let rg deal with this rather than stirring the pot more? And not mention any gear brands (as he's requested earlier) as he's going through the shop and obviously doesn't want to upset the process he's going through with potential warranty claim.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Of utmost importance is what gear was used, since some of us can recall history as applied to such gear.
If we know said gear had histories of failures, warrantee should be applied. But 1st and most important, what gear? ie foil mast.
And did rider fall atop his board while up on foil?
As you have worked out it was a Naish. I did not want to get into a slagging off manufacturer debate as more interested in how the forces are applied to the equipment during use. Assuming falling off is part of foiling. im thinking there must be a huge force applied on the mast to bend and snap it, but then think surely the water would give way to the mast and dissipate the energy. Interested in the physics of it all and how I could prevent a similar situation. There has been some really good points raised and advice given, which I appreciate.
I'm not gybing yet, get 2/3rds way round then usually fall off, made a few all way round but not on foil. I can't recall exact details of this incident but usually on foil and lose balance or can't make the wing switch. So prob foil half way out the water and board tipping. I ride with feet cantered on mid line of board. it's a 75cm Mast that was 3wks old with a HA1400 foil. thanks for input.
Good it's all going to end up ...ok.
Gear problems are very ...annoying.
G/f actually likes to put board down, PLANE thru the jibe, and step back to foil out.
Look for flat water and steady breeze for your jibes.
I also had a failure with this brand board and also during a failed gybe 6 weeks ago. Mast track was ripped apart. Everything was replaced under warranty. Failure was in a production problem. No issues with the new setup and plenty of failed gybes.
Select to expand quoteflatchat said..
I also had a failure with this brand board and also during a failed gybe 6 weeks ago. Mast track was ripped apart. Everything was replaced under warranty. Failure was in a production problem. No issues with the new setup and plenty of failed gybes.
My track issue was about 6wks ago on the 110, replaced no problem, they have been good that way. Might of been the same run of boards.
Appreciate you sharing the brand and the outcome, as that helps make this an informative thread. It would preferable not to have failing gear, but s**t happens, and it's a very strong point that the store/brand is acknowledging the issue and dealing with it appropriately. Longer-term, the expectation is that they resolve the problem and no more need to warranty stuff.
My initial foil brand was slingshot, in the early days they were having some production problems with the foil wings delaminating. They ended up warranty'ing several, no questions asked, postage free. For one, I even half tried talking them out of it, saying it was my fault (hit a rock), but they insisted. A-1 customer service deserves a shout-out.
YES....A1 service deserves a shout out.
That's why it's necessary to know the brand.
This forum should serve ALL of us, and secrets, dodges, and misinformation should be left out or censored.
Just tell it like it is.
The ending will work out.
I use Naish. This forum reinforced my findings of incompatibility between '18 and '19, possible problems with 1st gen wide chord masts,, and advantages of HA over Jet.
I will still continue to use Naish foils.
Select to expand quotergmacca said..eppo said..
So you were kooking up a simple gybe and the mast track broke - twice. Yeh nah that's equipment failure for sure. I'm crashing and bashing at speed all the time - even smacked into a reef a few times. Run it into shallow banks. I well keel over on a jibe. Gear for sure. have fallen on my board plenty of times and with 85 mast - so even more leverage. My son jumps the damn things . and well high to. Recon that could cause some load. No breaks.
Yeah in a nut shell, came off 2/3rds round. tracks came out on one board. Mast snapped at base today. Not a good couple of months. yes I see loads of videos of ppl going for it big style with no issues. Might just be unlucky.
thats def not you, it's garbage gear.
Yeh I'm not sure with the brand disclosure idea. Good reasons why though, but there are good reasons why not. Sometimes a few bad experiences can lead to a black mark against some gear that may just have had one particular defect - which then generates its own false narrative overall.
but two - at same place, yeh it does start begging the question I must admit.
Just going by my experiences in surf foiling.
My first foil was a copy. I am quite sure the mast was of a softer grade aluminium as it bent quite often when hit sideways by a wave.
This has not yet happened to my Neil Pryde foil at all for around 5 years now. Nor has my mast track been ripped out. My mast tracks were in a mast box that I purchased seperately & installed myself into a board.
And believe me, it has been smashed! And many a time I was sure it would have been damaged. I have also bottomed out hitting the shallows too.
So I know that the most force would either bend or break the mast at the mast plate or rip out the track or tracks. But not at the fuse.
So in your experience described. In my view it's gear failure. And also in my view wing sailing like you described would have far less force than a crashing wave.
And I am quite sure if it was caused by your body then you would have felt it & probably been in pain.
