Select to expand quotePaul Kelf said..
Anyone know if there will be an event this year?
GPS has pretty much killed slalom and marathon racing.
The racing events that are still held,like Lancelin and possibly Safety Bay are started as soon as a 10 knot seabreeze arrives!
The Wednesday comp is great though.
Select to expand quotepetermac33 said..Paul Kelf said..
Anyone know if there will be an event this year?
GPS has pretty much killed slalom and marathon racing.
Really? Because since the GPS comp started more and more sailors are buying slalom kit. How can that be bad for the racing scene?
It's bad for the racing scene as most racers now have their (ego) device attached to their arm------- and sail at ridiculous angles upwind
then at another crazy angle off the wind.
And most of this sailing is done in the flattest water they can find----to further massage their ego's. 
What has happened to across the wind sailing in chop especially,is that it has all but died.
gave you a green thumb for your last post pm.
can i have it back....
the success of the team challenge shows that people wanted something more than just sailing back and forth.
for me the rush of a screaming downwind run at top speed is very addictive.
Fair enough,each to their own. Its valid though that slalom and marathon racing has suffered greatly from GPS.
As to has drag racing across the river.
I totally agree with Pete here and I know a number of very accomplished sailors who also feel that GPS sailing is not such "a great way to improve your sailing" as I frequently hear people on the beach assert.
GPS sailors are always looking for the flattest conditions to sail in to improve their 2 sec peak above all else. This does nothing to address speed through the lulls, upwind, control in the chop etc. all important elements of being a good sailor.
The reason that people like Jesper, Rowen and Isaac are outstanding sailors is because they make the effort to train in choppy conditions, often on the ocean, against each other. If everybody did this, the standard of sailing in WA would be way higher.
If you truly want "a great way to improve your sailing", pick a training partner and do long runs with them to find where your strengths and weaknesses lie. Then go and race on Wednesdays against experienced pros like Jesper- I can't believe more people don't take advantage of the opportunity!!
Select to expand quoteShane said..
I totally agree with Pete here and I know a number of very accomplished sailors who also feel that GPS sailing is not "a great way to improve your sailing" as many people on the beach assert.
GPS sailors are always looking for the flattest conditions to sail in to improve their 2 sec peak above all else. This does nothing to address speed through the lulls, upwind, control in the chop etc. all important elements of being a good sailor.
The reason that people like Jesper, Rowen and Isaac are outstanding sailors is because they make the effort to train in choppy conditions, often on the ocean, against each other. If everybody did this, the standard of sailing in WA would be way higher.
If you truly want "a great way to improve your sailing", pick a training partner and do long runs with them to find where your strengths and weaknesses lie. Then go and race on Wednesdays against experienced pros like Jesper- I can't believe more people don't take advantage of this opportunity!!
Can't say I agree - stick a GPS on and go for a 30 knot NM at Leighton to test yours and PM's flat water theories. Remember GPS is not just 2 sec's. JJ
Select to expand quotepetermac33 said..
It's bad for the racing scene as most racers now have their (ego) device attached to their arm------- and sail at ridiculous angles upwind
then at another crazy angle off the wind.
And most of this sailing is done in the flattest water they can find----to further massage their ego's.
What has happened to across the wind sailing in chop especially,is that it has all but died.
Don't get this at all - surely racing by it's very nature requires a large ego to strive to be first?
One big reason the Wednesday comp is not so popular-----ego.
Last Wednesday I only rigged a small sail and I new for certain that I would finish drop dead last,so I did what most of the GPS sailors do and massaged my ego!
A 30 knot NM in any water state would be an accomplishment for me JJ, especially at Leighton- but so is getting around a choppy slalom course without stuffing up any gybes..
If the marathon goes ahead this year ill be there for sure, and I can be sure that most of my sailing mates will be to.
Comps are great, I didn't see 1 sour face at green head last weekend.
Select to expand quoteShane said..
I totally agree with Pete here and I know a number of very accomplished sailors who also feel that GPS sailing is not such "a great way to improve your sailing" as I frequently hear people on the beach assert.
GPS sailors are always looking for the flattest conditions to sail in to improve their 2 sec peak above all else. This does nothing to address speed through the lulls, upwind, control in the chop etc. all important elements of being a good sailor.
The reason that people like Jesper, Rowen and Isaac are outstanding sailors is because they make the effort to train in choppy conditions, often on the ocean, against each other. If everybody did this, the standard of sailing in WA would be way higher.
If you truly want "a great way to improve your sailing", pick a training partner and do long runs with them to find where your strengths and weaknesses lie. Then go and race on Wednesdays against experienced pros like Jesper- I can't believe more people don't take advantage of the opportunity!!
a couple of us will be down on the beach today. We usually launch from phoneboxes / dutchies and sail upwind to leighton where we do a bit of gybe practice in front of the surf club.
Come join....
Select to expand quoteShane said..
I totally agree with Pete here and I know a number of very accomplished sailors who also feel that GPS sailing is not such "a great way to improve your sailing" as I frequently hear people on the beach assert.
GPS sailors are always looking for the flattest conditions to sail in to improve their 2 sec peak above all else. This does nothing to address speed through the lulls, upwind, control in the chop etc. all important elements of being a good sailor.
The reason that people like Jesper, Rowen and Isaac are outstanding sailors is because they make the effort to train in choppy conditions, often on the ocean, against each other. If everybody did this, the standard of sailing in WA would be way higher.
If you truly want "a great way to improve your sailing", pick a training partner and do long runs with them to find where your strengths and weaknesses lie. Then go and race on Wednesdays against experienced pros like Jesper- I can't believe more people don't take advantage of the opportunity!!
Shane hit is spot on, GPS is only good for testing equipment vs conditions and not skills vs skills.To be on the same patch of water and same gust of wind and to measure how well you handle every 10 second section of conditions as they arise while going for runs against someone of similar ability is the only way to get better.
The level of gybing skills in Maui is phenomenal in comparison to Perth, because no one uses gps there, alot of slalom sailors, just the rough water, 1v1 or 2v2 sailing and some temporary gybe marks setout for practice. Everyone competes in a 5 round slalom series over 2 months and do full days of racing and have a heap of fun!
It seems the ego's of the South African's, NZ's and Hawaiians are all about being the best at slalom racing where true skill and ability is judged, and they are not afraid to compete and be beaten, because that is how you know where you are at and what you need to improve on. To continue competing and progressing up the chain of rank until you are able to race the course with sweet gybes and blistering speed through the same conditions as everyone on the course. Trying to do a race start with a watch is a skill on its on. Thats what we should try to practice, not finding the flattest water and hiding behind a gps and a false sense of success.
We all know who is fast and who isnt, if you get 40 knots on a gps who cares the conditions were probably 48 knot conditions and you got 40. big pat on the back, now go practice gybing around a mark in the middle of the river in 30 knots, lets see how that goes for a challenge.
Just having fun is the main thing, to have a goal to be a good sailor and to get better at your abilities is usually most peoples goals so go sail with a friend and line up for different angles of sailing and different locations to test your settings.
Morning all. Interesting discussion especially from an event point of view.
The Safety Bay Marathon is one of the great events in the WA calendar but without an event team it does not happen. SBWC and WWA are small groups of volunteers with a passion for windsurfing. The events on the calendar this year are the events an individual or group of mates love, support and organise. WWA provides support in the form of permits, some equipment and a little cash with the goal of running events with a small entry fee and breaking even.
Unfortunately for the Safety Bay Marathon, "the passionate person/team" has not come forward this year to take the bull by the horns and make the event happen. It would be great to see it happen along with the Mandurah Marathon too but person power is needed.
If there is a keen team of people WWA can provide the guidance needed to get an event happening anywhere in any format. Like Green Head or the Freestyle State at Woodies which are both organise by a keen group of sailors with the passion for the event.
Where does Freerace fit into the mix. Format is easy to run and would seem to be a good mix of sailor on sailor racing and GPS. Throw in a gate mark or two and you have a really test of overall skills.
All the boxes are ticked in terms of volunteer coordination of the racing at Pelican Point on Wednesdays. There is a fun, casual environment, good racing and even free beer and pizza provided, yet when it's on I look out over the river and see fast guys sailing up at Melville so we've got to ask what we can do better. Perhaps nobody knows that it's on...should we try to raise the event profile? It can't get much more casual than it already is so perhaps that's the direction to head with it..
I don't see why we can't have EVERYBODY there on Wednesdays for a regular social gathering and fun sailing. We are a relatively small group of like minded people- let's get together. It would be a lot more "real" than sitting in front of a computer typing congratulatory messages to each other on GPSTC after sailing.
Select to expand quoteWindsurfingWA said..
Where does Freerace fit into the mix. Format is easy to run and would seem to be a good mix of sailor on sailor racing and GPS. Throw in a gate mark or two and you have a really test of overall skills.
Slightly less pointless than GPSTC. At least the competitors might be within 500m of each other instead of an entirely different location, but it's got to be a pretty boring format compared to a proper race if the winner hasn't been determined until all of the tracks have been analysed.
Figure of eight slalom is surely just as easy to organise. Start watches are cheaper than GPS units and no computers are required.
Now here is a bloody good incentive not to stuff a gybe down there
Unfortunately for a zyloom like me I cant gybe to save my life, be it in flat water or ocean.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Western-Australia/White-Shark-in-Warnbro-Sound/
Izy, I agree - if you want to race successfully, race against other racers, makes perfect sense.
However if you want to optimise speed, GPS sailing is great.
If you think GPS sailing is not challenging enough, try equaling Slowie's 46+ knot run at Safety Bay in a winter storm or Nort's 31.5 NM at Leighton - perhaps equally as challenging as rounding marks at 30 knots in the river?
I don't understand why a few racers want to knock GPS sailors - both are fun (and different) parts of our great sport.
I would be on board for the marathon. Have done this in the past and was certainly a great event. Funnily enough, some of the first finishers were GPSTC members....
Select to expand quoteShane said..
All the boxes are ticked in terms of volunteer coordination of the racing at Pelican Point on Wednesdays. There is a fun, casual environment, good racing and even free beer and pizza provided, yet when it's on I look out over the river and see fast guys sailing up at Melville so we've got to ask what we can do better. Perhaps nobody knows that it's on...should we try to raise the event profile? It can't get much more casual than it already is so perhaps that's the direction to head with it..
I don't see why we can't have EVERYBODY there on Wednesdays for a regular social gathering and fun sailing. We are a relatively small group of like minded people- let's get together. It would be a lot more "real" than sitting in front of a computer typing congratulatory messages to each other on GPSTC after sailing.
I love slalom racing and enjoy the GPSTC but lack the time to pursue ideal conditions at ideal locations or have huge anounts of cash to buy speed specific equipment to be competitive. I look more at the overall picture rather than 2 and 5x10 sec speeds.
I agree, best sailing is racing others in the same conditions at the same time. One on one or small groups drag racing is much more fun.
I managed a few slalom sessions at Peli Pt early when they first started, but Wednesdays are out for me now unfortunately and peli can be a pain to get to, depending on where you work.
The size of the carpark at Peli can be limiting on good days, especially if you get there later.
As an alternative formal race event, maybe the same deal, or figure 8 could be held at Melville on a Fri evening.
Fig 8 is even easier as only 2 marks are needed. Gybe around the first wood post and you only need 1 inside mark.
Granted, the wind isn't as good as Peli, but that's part of it.
Some people can make both, but it opens th eoptions up for others who can't do Wed or the location.
cheers
Of course GPS sailing is fun and a valuable aspect of our sport, etc. and most of us are GPSTC members. The question is whether our local scene demonstrates a bit too much GPS emphasis at the cost of a healthier racing scene. It's frustrating to see only moderate interest in racing events in this "mecca of Australian windsurfing" considering the effort that goes into organising them, and the potential for improvement in the ALL-ROUND skills of the participants.
I will add here that Slowie and Norts are very hard to keep up with in a race as well, but it's really fun trying :)
How good does someone need to be to join any of these? Are there different "grades"? Could that possibly be the issue with popularity of these races as the intermediates are too overwhelmed by the really fast guys?
Select to expand quoteGrumpySmurf said..
How good does someone need to be to join any of these? Are there different "grades"? Could that possibly be the issue with popularity of these races as the intermediates are too overwhelmed by the really fast guys?
+1
My perception is that the Slalom racing is just that. Massive camed sails and slalom boards or don't bother.
Also, it's a bit of a club for the go fast guys, and intermediate sailors, or those with freeride/wave kit need not apply.
Bet they have had the same crew down there for a number of years.
P.S. Paul, you have probably figured out that the chance of a Safety Bay Marathon is low...
There are regularly people on freeride gear and all abilities so there will always be someone close by to try to beat. Come and join in. You need to be a current WWA member but that means you get a funky shirt and other perks.
Select to expand quotewestozwind said..GrumpySmurf said..
How good does someone need to be to join any of these? Are there different "grades"? Could that possibly be the issue with popularity of these races as the intermediates are too overwhelmed by the really fast guys?
+1
My perception is that the Slalom racing is just that. Massive camed sails and slalom boards or don't bother.
Also, it's a bit of a club for the go fast guys, and intermediate sailors, or those with freeride/wave kit need not apply.
Bet they have had the same crew down there for a number of years.
P.S. Paul, you have probably figured out that the chance of a Safety Bay Marathi. Is low...
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's exclusive, don't bother etc. It's casual racing, and often conducted in marginal/light winds so the bigger kit is obviously the go if you have it. If not, then just get out there and have fun with the other guys who are on smaller kit. I've had a number of underpowered days on a 7.0 when an 8.0 or 8.6 would have been much more suitable. Still great fun competing and there's usually someone there of the same level/kit to compete with.
The next club day is this Sunday so too late to put together the marathon but we hope to have some casual racing in the sound and upto Penguin Island .If you are keen to help organise the marathon I guess the following club day is the second week in January , the week before the LOC so it could be a practice event . Just need the people who can commit to help WWA and SBWC.
Select to expand quotewestozwind said..GrumpySmurf said..
How good does someone need to be to join any of these? Are there different "grades"? Could that possibly be the issue with popularity of these races as the intermediates are too overwhelmed by the really fast guys?
+1
My perception is that the Slalom racing is just that. Massive camed sails and slalom boards or don't bother.
Also, it's a bit of a club for the go fast guys, and intermediate sailors, or those with freeride/wave kit need not apply.
Bet they have had the same crew down there for a number of years.
P.S. Paul, you have probably figured out that the chance of a Safety Bay Marathon is low...
Giving me ideas now.
Slalom event for those on FSW gear. Anyone?
