Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
That was perhaps a case of more stable mono over stretchy xply (then) and not caring about longevity
They used the stable and fragile sail
So it's not the same. Boukes fin designs have no downside. They make you turn soooo much better and in wavesailing that wins yeah?
No , this is not how it is or was.
Most of todays "high end" weight reducing cloths being promoted and sold to you by the brands and PWA sailors are no better than those available to the sailmaking industry since the late 80's.
2.2kg 4.7m very strong wave sails from scrim laminates have been available since 1986, to my absolute certain knowledge.
For most of the time between 1986 and today (37 years) PWA sailors have been using sails 50-100% heavier than they needed to if the sails were made from ( always available) lightweight scrim laminates ( as many are today). Throughout this period there was an immediate and significant improvement to be made in their sail weights, 1-2kg lighter, and yet its taken 30+ years to happen for most.
This isnt arguable, it is demonstrable fact.
"Sometimes being too far ahead of the market looks as wacky as being too far behind."
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Dude you said in 10yrs everyone will be using your massive discovery - but you made it 15 years ago and been talking about it here for 5 to10. Arrogance ? Well, somewhat if you say that when we all wake up to your idea then quads will go away.
I still have an issue with NO sailors on the PWA using twisted assy toed fins even though they do use different board shapes to us (and work out and train heaps) .... so that tells me immediately what is far more important for a waveboard. If the $$$ and glory doesn't bring your inventions to the spotlight after 15yrs I dunno what will. In any pro sport endeavour the pro's use what really works.
As I said, fkn awesome that you spent all this money on research and build great boards and even better share the results - truly thats great - but you lost me when you said you change toe by 0.1 deg . So not a full degree - 0.1deg - which is 0.197mm of toe different on a side fin. That is marketing BS that some might fall, for but aussies are famous for having a sensitive BS meter. Really, a grain of sand in the box changing toe in, can be felt?
Check the MW sails thread lol. Rider5 does not to show the proof - the guy with the extraordinary claim needs to provide extraordinary proof.
Now: tough boards - hell yes you do that well. They're great.
I said 10 to 20 years..... giving that they are a bit slow to catch up....
You can hold me accountable on that.
And, given that I do not sponsor PWA riders, sorry for not running after them if they would please please use my fins just to make other boards better. To me the PWA is pretty much irrelevant. They make it very hard to impossible to enter for smaller brands. Plus it is pretty useless for developments for end users. It is mainly a promotion tool. These guys focus everything to sail a 10 or 20 minute heat full power and for that have a whole range of gear ready on the beach to quickly swap if conditions change. That is far off how normal people sail. A normal sailors sails for hours on end and prefers to not change gear at all. If anything reset the sail and that is it. Some PWA riders even change gear mid heat to first score waves and then jumps. That is completely counter productive for development if you ask me. Maybe the reason why there is hardly any real development? The last "innovation" was the square stubbie shapes. I already knew back then that they would disappear again. If I had a business just selling fins, I would have looked to sponsor PWA riders. But I developed the fins for my boards and not someone elses. Years ago the owner of MUF had one of my flex tails and he confirmed my fins work better than his. We had some talks to work together but I didn?t think the deal was good enough. Like I said, my interest is in making my boards better, not someone elses, so if I am going to make other boards better, it has to be worth it.Also, there are plenty of guys with PWA level skills who are not in the PWA. As they don?t need to focus on sailing heats but just go sailing like other guys, their feedback is much more relevant for other end users. My team riders just have one or maximum 2 boards so they get to test the range of the gear much more. Plus various PWA may be good sailors but dont really know the technical/physical side of things. Some 18 years ago a PWA rider wanted to test Will?s board. Just when he went out, the wind dropped and everyone started to come in. He stayed out but could not get planing. He came back and said it didn?t plane. I said: Did you not notice the wind dropped and everyone came in? Yes, but I had power in the sail. Don?t you know that just before the planing threshold, you have more power in the sail then when planing? No. Lateron the wind picked up and he gave it another try and everything was fine. So if for you the proof would be in PWA riders using them, I am afraid I cant help you for the reasons given above.
Edit: In december we had some Epic conditions and various PWA riders came over with a camera man:
Select to expand quoteR1DER said..santi4 said..
You start the fight. I just mentioned the the topic is overrated and physical reason shows that the effect is very likely neglectable. Also experience support my claim, because there are so many different toe in configurations out there and still good boards.
But you show me some simfoil data to explain to me that I am wrong. I have no problem if somebody has an opinion on it, you have a lot of experience and you have many people who like your boards. That is fine and you can be proud of your achievements. But this is not enough for you, you come to every forum tell everybody that you have found the holy grail.......
hello... your tone behind the screen is a bit loud... calm down. have you tried the fins with pretwist? They are giving you the opportunity to try to improve your carving and get out of your boring 2+2=4 idea...I don't think your formulas justify putting the boxes straight.
I am testing in the water and surfing those changes are really noticeable... especially in trifin (which is not the same as thruster) single fin + stabilizers. try and enjoy, leave math for work...santi4 said..
You start the fight. I just mentioned the the topic is overrated and physical reason shows that the effect is very likely neglectable. Also experience support my claim, because there are so many different toe in configurations out there and still good boards.
But you show me some simfoil data to explain to me that I am wrong. I have no problem if somebody has an opinion on it, you have a lot of experience and you have many people who like your boards. That is fine and you can be proud of your achievements. But this is not enough for you, you come to every forum tell everybody that you have found the holy grail.......
hello... your tone behind the screen is a bit loud... calm down. have you tried the fins with pretwist? They are giving you the opportunity to try to improve your carving and get out of your boring 2+2=4 idea...I don't think your formulas justify putting the boxes straight.
I am testing in the water and surfing those changes are really noticeable... especially in trifin (which is not the same as thruster) single fin + stabilizers. try and enjoy, leave math for work...
He doesn't have to calm down he's just passionate. It's refreshing to see here.
There's a difference between passionate & arrogant.
Select to expand quoteBrent in Qld said..
I really like my 87Pyro (am 90++kegs) as a twin for general bashing about and on most waves under logo. All in all, a pretty versatile board that likes to be sailed hard off the tail and loves to be driven at full throttle on all points of sail. I'd put it in the 'really fast' category and can be, as Mark says 'scary loose' as a twin. If I think I need a little more bite and am aiming for a more controlled session, I setup as a quad. I can feel the board slow ( maybe I need some assy/1-2? fwd fins to reduce drag?) and the whole setup feels more secure on bigger days.
IMO worth trying it
Extinction of quads or ridiculous topic same coin
Here is another video on the fanatic grip to follow up the earlier Marc Pare vid.
they talk about Marc and custom / stock fins.
Select to expand quoteSnapfigure said..Brent in Qld said..
I really like my 87Pyro (am 90++kegs) as a twin for general bashing about and on most waves under logo. All in all, a pretty versatile board that likes to be sailed hard off the tail and loves to be driven at full throttle on all points of sail. I'd put it in the 'really fast' category and can be, as Mark says 'scary loose' as a twin. If I think I need a little more bite and am aiming for a more controlled session, I setup as a quad. I can feel the board slow ( maybe I need some assy/1-2? fwd fins to reduce drag?) and the whole setup feels more secure on bigger days.
IMO worth trying it
Extinction of quads or ridiculous topic same coin
How did you get FCS fins in a slot box?
Select to expand quoteSnapfigure said..Brent in Qld said..
I really like my 87Pyro (am 90++kegs) as a twin for general bashing about and on most waves under logo. All in all, a pretty versatile board that likes to be sailed hard off the tail and loves to be driven at full throttle on all points of sail. I'd put it in the 'really fast' category and can be, as Mark says 'scary loose' as a twin. If I think I need a little more bite and am aiming for a more controlled session, I setup as a quad. I can feel the board slow ( maybe I need some assy/1-2? fwd fins to reduce drag?) and the whole setup feels more secure on bigger days.
IMO worth trying it
Extinction of quads or ridiculous topic same coin
Tried FCS in my wave boards years ago as I liked them in my SUPs. Gave up because I kept snapping them off at the tabs, gets pretty expensive... Might do some crate digging and see what I've got.
yeah i've struggled with fcs too. boxes roll out of the boards and keep needing fixing. fcs are not structurally up for it.
the guys i've talked to in WA had similar issues.
i went from fcs to futures bases in my boards which work a treat. i also think there are better fin options for futures bases compared to fcs. especially as a lot of glass fins and bigger twin fins are futures base.
versafin do fcs, fcs2 to slot and mini tuttle adaptors. (snapfigures suggestion)
wierdo fins do a futures to us box adaptor that can be modified to suit slot box.
wasabi do fcs to futures adaptors.
NSP do an fcs to mini tuttle adaptor.
was thinking of sticking to futures bases in my builds but i think i'll start using slotbox and use adaptors. we are at a point now where slot box can take any fins with adaptors which opens up a world of options. adaptors are expensive though.
on a side note, tectonics fins also have toed asymmetric fins for slot box bases.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
Here is another video on the fanatic grip to follow up the earlier Marc Pare vid.
they talk about Marc and custom / stock fins.
Not purple AGAIN! What is this strange malaise?
Select to expand quoteBrent in Qld said..Rango said..Brent in Qld said..
Dumb'n it down further, I like twinnies. Have other good boards but a good twin fin set up is the ducks guts for me.
What current board would work well as a twin?The small Evil Twins and Nuevos were great ,the former being a revelation for me.But the faster kode twin not so much to my liking.
I really like my 87Pyro (am 90++kegs) as a twin for general bashing about and on most waves under logo. All in all, a pretty versatile board that likes to be sailed hard off the tail and loves to be driven at full throttle on all points of sail. I'd put it in the 'really fast' category and can be, as Mark says 'scary loose' as a twin. If I think I need a little more bite and am aiming for a more controlled session, I setup as a quad. I can feel the board slow ( maybe I need some assy/1-2? fwd fins to reduce drag?) and the whole setup feels more secure on bigger days.
And this is what I have been saying. And hearing of others too. For all my quad loving friends. A quad in your book is only better because it allows for 2 small trailing fins, which turn better than one big fin, with enough area to allow for 2 small side fins so they dont drag too much if there is no toe. But, as can be read above, they do still drag. Noticably. And I read "scary loose" as unpredictable. Without a centre fin, in a hard turn, one of the fins ventilates and all of a sudden you have 50% less fin grip. This can be fun in small waves for a good sailor but not when it gets more serious. In the first twinser hype period in the mid nineties, I discovered that too. Even in some really clean float n ride conditions, one turn would go perfect and the next youd spin out. Not much fun if it gets bigger. At the time I saw the benefits of having more fin area with shorter fins so trying to solve this unpredictability, I tried channels and harder rails in the tail. The rails helped somewhat but not enough. Then I thought: A single fin does not suffer from this problem so why not add a smaller single fin in the middle? Like surf boards already showed for many years. So then, where the other brands went back to single fins, I went to trifins. This was 1998, with a "home made" sail as well:
In the beginning with some toe but also asymmetrical fins. Of which, at the time, I didnt know this was counteracting eachother. In 2004 Tim from Dongara, WA, got in contact as he had read somewhere about my trifins and he had been modifying his Exocet boards with surfing fins and putting toe in like surf boards. He said this was the trick. So then I remembered the 4way fin system from a South African surf board shaper Dean Geraghty (who now lives in Australia) and ordered some sets of them to test with. Like I said, one day was enough to figure out about 1.8 to 2 degrees was fastest. And I made 3 boards for Tim, 2 with the 4wfs and took them over to WA.
Bouke. Maybe you can't make no toe or twin fins or quads or other design philosophies work because you're just not up to it.
that seems more plausible then every other brand or person not on WitchCraft gear being incompetent.
by all means post some more photos. Keep the shill alive
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
Bouke. Maybe you can't make no toe or twin fins or quads or other design philosophies work because you're just not up to it.
that seems more plausible then every other brand or person not on Witch Craft gear being incompetent.
by all means post some more photos. Keep the shill alive
Just read again what Brent in Qld said. Does that sound good? Having to choose between "scary loose" or drag?
What about tight turning with full grip?
Yeah, I read his post, I even responded with some help.
i was responding to your post. It appears you've not been able to make boards without 3 fins work based on everything you've posted
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..Ok bouke.
We all know the pros use different boards as any advantage is a help.
Why are they not all using twisted toed assy fins as aftermarket improvement to win comps?
Every time someone questions anything you post a pic of a nice turn and that's not proof
Neither is one guy who can feel it.
Even if we accept all your stuff is wayyy better-
You still have not justified your ridiculous assertion that you tweak toe by 0.1deg (same as a grain of sand in between the box and the fin) and that is something people can feel. That's why folks start questioning
Then one guy chucks in some science and people asking how many boards and fins have U built
Never yet seen architect lay bricks
Doesn't mean he is wrong
Too answer your question why nobody in the PWA is using twisted fins. The answer is very simple and obvious there can only be two reasons.
1. it doesn't matter
2. it is worse than no twist.
Clearly it is of no advantage because otherwise it would already be standard in fins.
So why is there only one person who is following this path, but makes boards with happy customers. So he is not unsuccessful with his approach. There can only be one reason: It doesn't really matter.
Coming back to my original statement that this whole discussion is totally overrated.
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..R1DER said..santi4 said..
You start the fight. I just mentioned the the topic is overrated and physical reason shows that the effect is very likely neglectable. Also experience support my claim, because there are so many different toe in configurations out there and still good boards.
But you show me some simfoil data to explain to me that I am wrong. I have no problem if somebody has an opinion on it, you have a lot of experience and you have many people who like your boards. That is fine and you can be proud of your achievements. But this is not enough for you, you come to every forum tell everybody that you have found the holy grail.......
hello... your tone behind the screen is a bit loud... calm down. have you tried the fins with pretwist? They are giving you the opportunity to try to improve your carving and get out of your boring 2+2=4 idea...I don't think your formulas justify putting the boxes straight.
I am testing in the water and surfing those changes are really noticeable... especially in trifin (which is not the same as thruster) single fin + stabilizers. try and enjoy, leave math for work...santi4 said..
You start the fight. I just mentioned the the topic is overrated and physical reason shows that the effect is very likely neglectable. Also experience support my claim, because there are so many different toe in configurations out there and still good boards.
But you show me some simfoil data to explain to me that I am wrong. I have no problem if somebody has an opinion on it, you have a lot of experience and you have many people who like your boards. That is fine and you can be proud of your achievements. But this is not enough for you, you come to every forum tell everybody that you have found the holy grail.......
hello... your tone behind the screen is a bit loud... calm down. have you tried the fins with pretwist? They are giving you the opportunity to try to improve your carving and get out of your boring 2+2=4 idea...I don't think your formulas justify putting the boxes straight.
I am testing in the water and surfing those changes are really noticeable... especially in trifin (which is not the same as thruster) single fin + stabilizers. try and enjoy, leave math for work...
He doesn't have to calm down he's just passionate. It's refreshing to see here.
There's a difference between passionate & arrogant.
Yes there is, and it might sound arrogant. But I get passionate if someone tells me that he did have scientific evidence but doesnt understand what he is talking about. To tell other people that he has facts and ignoring the scientific reasoning is ignorant, I do not understand why anybody is listening to this nonsense. As I said I have not problem with someone telling me that he believes that his thing works because he has many happy customers. But everybody should be alert if you read pseudo scientific arguments and if these pseudo arguments being challenged cannot respond to any of it.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
Yeah, I read his post, I even responded with some help.
i was responding to your post. It appears you've not been able to make boards without 3 fins work based on everything you've posted
I have not made quads simply because there is nothing to gain. Even if you set up everything perfect with a bit larger pretwisted side fins and smaller trailing fins, it works well but not better, you do have one more fin to give vortex drag, you are missing a centre fin to give more predictability and you need more fins and more boxes. I have sold pretwisted fins with my trailing fins to people from Europe with quads like Goya, Quatro or JP (because of the MT boxes) and the riders said it was noticably better, less drag, better up wind, better turning with more drive and more control and grip.
Marcin Kowaski
hace 2 semanas
What about toe in at your front fins i can see you use ezzy asymetric fins on your new ultrakode ?
3
Responder
Federico Morisio
?
3 respuestas
Federico Morisio
Federico Morisio
hace 2 semanas
Yes, I've been using those asymmetric lateral fins on the ultrakode in thruster setup as I feel like they make the board faster and more agile. Center fin is MFC though and all my quads are MFC K300 models!
Thruster or Quad? - Differences between Windsurfing wave fins setups - #TheMorisioVLOG34
Federico Morisio
1900 suscriptores
Fins can change only a little and very subtle, it is mainly the rocker, OFO and railsshape that makes how tight you can turn and how much flow you can get out of a board.
Fins do ad, but it might be that last 10% tuning it down to personal prefferences.
Are you looking for that 10% OR IS IT ENOUGH?
Select to expand quotesanti4 said..
Fins can change only a little and very subtle, it is mainly the rocker, OFO and railsshape that makes how tight you can turn and how much flow you can get out of a board.
Fins do ad, but it might be that last 10% tuning it down to personal prefferences.
Are you looking for that 10% OR IS IT ENOUGH?
While I agree with rocker trumping everything why start the thread. Initially you were asking why production boards don't have toe in when it is so much better. Now it only makes very subtle difference. I mean wtf. Are you also saying that there is no difference between tri and quad.
What's your connection to witchcraft?
Select to expand quoteSchobiHH said..gorgesailor said..R1DER said..santi4 said..
You start the fight. I just mentioned the the topic is overrated and physical reason shows that the effect is very likely neglectable. Also experience support my claim, because there are so many different toe in configurations out there and still good boards.
But you show me some simfoil data to explain to me that I am wrong. I have no problem if somebody has an opinion on it, you have a lot of experience and you have many people who like your boards. That is fine and you can be proud of your achievements. But this is not enough for you, you come to every forum tell everybody that you have found the holy grail.......
hello... your tone behind the screen is a bit loud... calm down. have you tried the fins with pretwist? They are giving you the opportunity to try to improve your carving and get out of your boring 2+2=4 idea...I don't think your formulas justify putting the boxes straight.
I am testing in the water and surfing those changes are really noticeable... especially in trifin (which is not the same as thruster) single fin + stabilizers. try and enjoy, leave math for work...santi4 said..
You start the fight. I just mentioned the the topic is overrated and physical reason shows that the effect is very likely neglectable. Also experience support my claim, because there are so many different toe in configurations out there and still good boards.
But you show me some simfoil data to explain to me that I am wrong. I have no problem if somebody has an opinion on it, you have a lot of experience and you have many people who like your boards. That is fine and you can be proud of your achievements. But this is not enough for you, you come to every forum tell everybody that you have found the holy grail.......
hello... your tone behind the screen is a bit loud... calm down. have you tried the fins with pretwist? They are giving you the opportunity to try to improve your carving and get out of your boring 2+2=4 idea...I don't think your formulas justify putting the boxes straight.
I am testing in the water and surfing those changes are really noticeable... especially in trifin (which is not the same as thruster) single fin + stabilizers. try and enjoy, leave math for work...
He doesn't have to calm down he's just passionate. It's refreshing to see here.
There's a difference between passionate & arrogant.
Yes there is, and it might sound arrogant. But I get passionate if someone tells me that he did have scientific evidence but doesnt understand what he is talking about. To tell other people that he has facts and ignoring the scientific reasoning is ignorant, I do not understand why anybody is listening to this nonsense. As I said I have not problem with someone telling me that he believes that his thing works because he has many happy customers. But everybody should be alert if you read pseudo scientific arguments and if these pseudo arguments being challenged cannot respond to any of it.
Do you have any thoughts on the science behind how toe in improves turning
Select to expand quoteBouke-Witchcraft said..Gestalt said..
Yeah, I read his post, I even responded with some help.
i was responding to your post. It appears you've not been able to make boards without 3 fins work based on everything you've posted
I have not made quads simply because there is nothing to gain. Even if you set up everything perfect with a bit larger pretwisted side fins and smaller trailing fins, it works well but not better, you do have one more fin to give vortex drag, you are missing a centre fin to give more predictability and you need more fins and more boxes. I have sold pretwisted fins with my trailing fins to people from Europe with quads like Goya, Quatro or JP (because of the MT boxes) and the riders said it was noticably better, less drag, better up wind, better turning with more drive and more control and grip.
Yes I understand that you were unable to gain anything.
looks like a few pwa riders and shapers don't agree. As an example here is a quad doing things you said were not possible.. Flikka can do it, why can't you.
Select to expand quoteSchobiHH said..
Too answer your question why nobody in the PWA is using twisted fins. The answer is very simple and obvious there can only be two reasons.
1. it doesn't matter
2. it is worse than no twist.
Clearly it is of no advantage because otherwise it would already be standard in fins.
So why is there only one person who is following this path, but makes boards with happy customers. So he is not unsuccessful with his approach. There can only be one reason: It doesn't really matter.
Coming back to my original statement that this whole discussion is totally overrated.
There are only 2 reasons?
No this is categorically untrue
There may be many reasons and as i have discussed in another post, PWA sailors have a very long history of NOT using the best available technologies.
By all means you can argue the merits of twisted toed fins versus not but your above argument is facile.
Select to expand quoteBouke-Witchcraft said..
And to get back to rockerlines, in the 80?s at school we learned that a parabolic curve is the best curve to guide the flow of a fluid. I thought that it looked roughly like the rocker line of a board so started drawing parabolic first on scale and then in full size on a sheet of plywood to find a (part of) a parabolic curve that would be similar to existing boards. Boards were always designed with a 3 part rockerline: scoop, flatter planing area and tail kick. to to turn. But I felt this was wrong, you use nearly the whole board to get planing and also to turn. So where in marketing they say: "It turns better because of the tail kick" they forget to add: "and it planes less" And the other way around for a flat mid section. What counts is the total amount of curve in the water. And then to get the smoothest behaviour, a continuously gradually changing curve must be better both for planing and turning (behaviour). Nowadays you still see some boards with a tail kick but more and more have pretty smooth rockerlines, some even match mine exactly. See here the rockerline analyses of a side shore wave 81. The distance from the red line to the dotted line is the amount of curvature, so from back to front the amount of curvature gradually reduces but even in the tail there still is some curve.
"in the 80?s at school we learned that a parabolic curve is the best curve to guide the flow of a fluid. "
So tell me what is a "parabolic curve".
Also where is it stated that your "magic" parabolic curve is the best for a planing hull?
What is the sense of a sentence like "What counts is the total amount of curve in the water".
All curves I have ever seen in CAD surf board shapes are G1 continuous and therefore "continuously gradually changing" so not only your curves.
"Where in marketing they say: "It turns better because of the tail kick" they forget to add: "and it planes less"
Isn't it all about the right compromise. But you imply that again you are the one who found THE right curve. All other curves are inferior. So much arrogance is preposterous.
You throw around terms without meaning. You can not really express what you do but sound like the wisdom master.I only see an imposter.
And at the same times you imply that you really are the only person who is able to build proper boards.
So you are actually bashing the whole industry and insult all the other shapers out there.
Select to expand quoteSchobiHH said..
Too answer your question why nobody in the PWA is using twisted fins. The answer is very simple and obvious there can only be two reasons.
1. it doesn't matter
2. it is worse than no twist.
3. They dont know of its existance or
4. if they do, their sponsor dont do them.
5. Their sponsor will not allow them to use Witchcraft fins.Randomly ask a few of them and you will find out. My guess is that at least 80% are unaware about them.
Select to expand quoteSchobiHH said..Bouke-Witchcraft said..
And to get back to rockerlines, in the 80?s at school we learned that a parabolic curve is the best curve to guide the flow of a fluid. I thought that it looked roughly like the rocker line of a board so started drawing parabolic first on scale and then in full size on a sheet of plywood to find a (part of) a parabolic curve that would be similar to existing boards. Boards were always designed with a 3 part rockerline: scoop, flatter planing area and tail kick. to to turn. But I felt this was wrong, you use nearly the whole board to get planing and also to turn. So where in marketing they say: "It turns better because of the tail kick" they forget to add: "and it planes less" And the other way around for a flat mid section. What counts is the total amount of curve in the water. And then to get the smoothest behaviour, a continuously gradually changing curve must be better both for planing and turning (behaviour). Nowadays you still see some boards with a tail kick but more and more have pretty smooth rockerlines, some even match mine exactly. See here the rockerline analyses of a side shore wave 81. The distance from the red line to the dotted line is the amount of curvature, so from back to front the amount of curvature gradually reduces but even in the tail there still is some curve.
"in the 80?s at school we learned that a parabolic curve is the best curve to guide the flow of a fluid. "
So tell me what is a "parabolic curve".
Also where is it stated that your "magic" parabolic curve is the best for a planing hull?
What is the sense of a sentence like "What counts is the total amount of curve in the water".
All curves I have ever seen in CAD surf board shapes are G1 continuous and therefore "continuously gradually changing" so not only your curves.
"Where in marketing they say: "It turns better because of the tail kick" they forget to add: "and it planes less"
Isn't it all about the right compromise. But you imply that again you are the one who found THE right curve. All other curves are inferior. So much arrogance is preposterous.
You throw around terms without meaning. You can not really express what you do but sound like the wisdom master.I only see an imposter.
And at the same times you imply that you really are the only person who is able to build proper boards.
So you are actually bashing the whole industry and insult all the other shapers out there.
"...And at the same times you imply that you really are the only person who is able to build proper boards..." And Will (whoever that might be..) can do the proper turns...
Select to expand quotesheddweller said..SchobiHH said..
Too answer your question why nobody in the PWA is using twisted fins. The answer is very simple and obvious there can only be two reasons.
1. it doesn't matter
2. it is worse than no twist.
Clearly it is of no advantage because otherwise it would already be standard in fins.
So why is there only one person who is following this path, but makes boards with happy customers. So he is not unsuccessful with his approach. There can only be one reason: It doesn't really matter.
Coming back to my o riginal statement that this whole discussion is totally overrated.
There are only 2 reasons?
No this is categorically untrue
There may be many reasons and as i have discussed in another post, PWA sailors have a very long history of NOT using the best available technologies.
By all means you can argue the merits of twisted toed fins versus not but your above argument is facile.
Of course it's a conspiracy. The "industry made them use gear they dislike". Which is why pwa wave sailors use custom boards and custom fins designed specifically for them.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
Of course it's a conspiracy. The "industry made them use gear they dislike". Which is why pwa wave sailors use custom boards and custom fins designed specifically for them.
I have some friends who are past and/or present PWA sailors.
Of these friends-
They do not always get what they want or ask for.
They are certainly not all technically gifted in equipment knowledge or design.
Their testing is often quite crude and they rarely give changes time to bed in. ( reluctant to change embedded technique)
They all have ***amazing*** sailing ability.
They are as prone to group think as any other cohort.
