Select to expand quotenerdycross said..Faff said..
I don't think wide freerides benefit from big sails. I had a 108 Rocket wide. I think it was rated 5 to 8. The 7.5 felt way too big for it. 6.7 felt perfect.
I totally agree I'm not sure what model of sailer weigh they use to give there info.
I'm quite interested Faff in your thoughts of the Tabou wide. I'm wating for my 2020 tabou RP 123 to arrive, I'm mostly wanting to use the RP for foiling but am hoping it will be a good blasting board with a good quality fin fitted. I believe the RP is detuned manta so am hoping will rip with a powerful sail.
I had a 2015. I think the current ones are quite different. I'm no authority. I'd been windsurfing for only 2 years at the time. It was the first board I *attempted* to gybe. It was wide enough and stable enough to practice flare gybes (I'm 70kg). My previous board was a Std Rocket 125. It definitely felt less stable underfoot. So the Rocket Wide was definitely a boon for me as a beginner.
2 years later I got an old Fanatic slalom, same volume, 69 wide. It planed earlier, went faster, but it was hard to gybe. I don't think my 7.0 Gator put enough mastfoot pressure on it either.
Since then I decided to foil in lighter winds.
The way I see it:
Free race - the fastest freerides, a hybrid between freeride and slalom
Free move - freeride that is wider, especially in the middle. Pros and cons are debatable, but usually the easiest to plane out of gybes.
Stubby - freeride that is shorter. I think most manufacturers don't even call this a category.
Conventional - freeride that is not wider and/or shorter.
Select to expand quoteausbinny said..
I don't think the squared off nose short boards would be harder to tack than the slightly longer narrow nose boards - the nose may be 10 - 20cm longer but doesn't provide much "float"
I have a blast (a 100l and a 130l) it is just as easy to tack as it is to gybe, and whilst not a fast at the top end (only by a small amount) than a Falcon I had had it is a far more forgiving and a far easier to use board that gets me going sooner than a dialled in slalom, keeps me going far longer and lets me spend far longer sailing as opposed to bogging falling or tweaking. Maybe i'm not a good enough sailor to get the best out of locked in gear or i just don't try hard enough but I love the gear I have.
Theres a really good article by Peter Hart in the UK windsurf Magazine, March 2020 defining all of the different " Free " types of board, well worth a read.
I recon it all depends on where you sail and what conditions you sail in. Dedicated slalom boards need dedicated sails and the cheetah sails you are using would not suit them.
Wind range you sail in too...?
Like the attempt to categorise it. Helps in also fin selection as the fin manufacturers advise on it.
Do you need to look at selecting a fin differently for a stubby. Which is actually my struggle. Al recommendations are for different shape
Select to expand quoteJiberJohn said..
It seems to me there are now four kinds of free ride boards. One could argue with my classifications, but I would say the first is the relatively long and narrow free rider, such as the Tabou Rocket, Naish Starship, and Goya Carrera.
The second is the free move category, such as the JP Magic Ride, RRD Fire Move, and Fanatic Gecko. Most manufacturers moved from the old school to the free move a few years ago--for example, Fanatic phased out the Shark and replaced it with the Gecko; and JP phased out the Xcite Ride and replaced it with the Magic Ride.
The third category is the stubby (very short and narrow) category and includes the Fanatic Blast and JP Super Ride. It is too early to tell, but I suspect this new category will replace the free moves such as the Gecko and Magic Ride.
The fourth category has the free race boards such as Starboard Futura, JP Super Sport, and Goya Bolt.
There are also some boards that are hard to put into a category--such as the Goya Volar. It is longer than the boards in any of the other categories but moderately wide side to side and thin top to bottom like the free move boards.
...
When free move boards came out, we were told they would plane earlier and be easier to jibe than the older style long and narrow boards. That is not my experience with them, but if that is what you experienced, please share.
Finally, are the stubby boards such as at the Blast and Super Ride really thick top to bottom? If they are short and wide, the volume must go into making them thicker top to bottom. Does that make them hard to tack and slog? (I am terrible at tacking.) Since they are so short and narrow, are they harder to get planing or do adjustments to the rocker, V, concave, and rail make up for the short and narrow outline as far as planing is concerned?
That is a lot of questions, probably too many. But I included them to stimulate conversation. Please don't feel like you have to answer them all (or any of them).
And thanks in advance for your thoughts.
You probably got already too many replies already but here are my takes.
Race vs Freerace. A Race board is designed to really come into its own when sailed overpowered. It will not work well if just powered up. In the same conditions a Freerace will be fine with smaller sails. A race board will win at the expert/pro level over a slalom course, it might not on a long distance race. The difference is fairly irrelevant if you are not racing.
Freeride/freemove. Depending on the model you are giving up some uptake and speed in exchange for easier jibing. They might be, depending on size, easier in chop/swell ... hard to tell if it is because of the shape or because you will be going slower.
Stubby. Is not a category, it is marketing. A Fanatic Blast is actually longer than a Starboard Futura/Isonic. What you are looking at is a board with a cut off nose and tail.
Finally quickness to plane. It has nothing to do with the length of the board. There is maybe a 15 cm variation in length between the longest and shortest board in the 100-130L range. A 245 vs 230 hull has the staggering displacement speed advantage of 3.8 knots vs 3.7 knots ...
What matters is volume distribution, rails, rocker and tail shape.
Select to expand quoteJiberJohn said..
It seems to me there are now four kinds of free ride boards. One could argue with my classifications, but I would say the first is the relatively long and narrow free rider, such as the Tabou Rocket, Naish Starship, and Goya Carrera.
The second is the free move category, such as the JP Magic Ride, RRD Fire Move, and Fanatic Gecko. Most manufacturers moved from the old school to the free move a few years ago--for example, Fanatic phased out the Shark and replaced it with the Gecko; and JP phased out the Xcite Ride and replaced it with the Magic Ride.
The third category is the stubby (very short and narrow) category and includes the Fanatic Blast and JP Super Ride. It is too early to tell, but I suspect this new category will replace the free moves such as the Gecko and Magic Ride.
The fourth category has the free race boards such as Starboard Futura, JP Super Sport, and Goya Bolt.
There are also some boards that are hard to put into a category--such as the Goya Volar. It is longer than the boards in any of the other categories but moderately wide side to side and thin top to bottom like the free move boards.
...
When free move boards came out, we were told they would plane earlier and be easier to jibe than the older style long and narrow boards. That is not my experience with them, but if that is what you experienced, please share.
Finally, are the stubby boards such as at the Blast and Super Ride really thick top to bottom? If they are short and wide, the volume must go into making them thicker top to bottom. Does that make them hard to tack and slog? (I am terrible at tacking.) Since they are so short and narrow, are they harder to get planing or do adjustments to the rocker, V, concave, and rail make up for the short and narrow outline as far as planing is concerned?
That is a lot of questions, probably too many. But I included them to stimulate conversation. Please don't feel like you have to answer them all (or any of them).
And thanks in advance for your thoughts.
You probably got already too many replies but here are my takes.
Race vs Freerace. A Race board is designed to come into its own when sailed overpowered. It will not work well if just powered up. In the same conditions a Freerace will be ok with smaller sails. A race board will win at the expert/pro level over a slalom course, it might not on a long distance race. The difference is fairly irrelevant if you are not racing.
Freeride/freemove. Depending on the model you are giving up some uptake and speed in exchange for easier jibing. They might be, depending on size, easier in chop/swell ... hard to tell if it happens because of the shape or simply because you will be going slower. Note however that they will be harder to sail if overpowered.
Stubby. Is not a category, in the100-140L range it is marketing. A Fanatic Blast is actually longer than a Starboard Futura/Isonic. What you are looking at is a board with a cut off nose and tail.
Finally quickness to plane. It has nothing to do with the length of the board. There is maybe a 15 cm variation in length between the longest and shortest board in the 100-140L range. A 245 vs 230 hull has the staggering displacement speed advantage of 3.8 knots vs 3.7 knots ...
What matters is volume, and volume distribution, rocker, and rails.
Categories be damned. Pick what you like and what works for you, and sail it. Enjoy it.
