To go fast it needs to be only just manageable to sail back upwind. This is where adjustable out is vital.
Slowie once said to me, "If your comfy sailing back up wind you have rigged too small.
IMHO you need to do 2 things to blast through the 30knt barrier. Sail alot deeper off the wind, as soon as you do this you will realise you need a bigger sail.
For example, In 20knts of wind you bear away (deep off the wind) and start doing 25+knts you will start to feel way underpowered beacuse with a sail thats comfy catching the wind square on is now battlig to pull you along in next to no wind.
In 20knts I'm on 7.8m not to be mucho but to enable me to be still powered up sailing very broad.
I think yrou first goal needs to be bear away more and start to feel the sail has no more power and you over sheet. At this point you have gone deep enough and you will start to want to rig bigger. The hardest part of the bare away (slingshot) last a fews seconds. It's as you go from a reach to deep off the wind. You will know you have gone deep as the sail goes light and its really comy. If you dont go deep enough the power in your sail just pulls you on to your toes.
I better stop this rambler now. ![]()
Best of luck cracking 30knts and remember is all for fun anyway![]()
Hi Sue, for me board size is key to going quickly not just sail size. As a relative lightweight (70kg) one of the major things that I find helps me go fast is a small board. I have only ever gone quickly on 45,52,54 cm wide boards. I accept 100% that it may be my technique is poor and that is why I am not quick on wider boards but that is me. I have tried to get my 105 litre 65 wide slalom board to go quickly but I fail when others around me are making it look easy. When I put a smaller board on, something which as a lightweight I can do far earlier than my amply proportioned frineds, I get a lot closer to their speeds.
The other thing that my level of technique needs is relatively flat water. Given a small board and flat water I am happy!
And yes bearing away is essential. Last weekend I managed many 30+ 2 and 10 sec speeds but none were across the wind.
I have a habit of having a bigger board than the guys which probably doesn't help. I like to be happy in the lulls and not shovelling.I suppose I'll have to get used to my 6.6m with the 95 and get used to uphauling..ugh more fitness needed...
. Thanks for the tips I'll keep them in mind. In the meantime I can console myself with the fact that the 28.6kt PB isn't bad for a reach..
.
To go fast it needs to be only just manageable to sail back upwind. This is where adjustable out is vital.
Slowie once said to me, "If your comfy sailing back up wind you have rigged too small.
IMHO you need to do 2 things to blast through the 30knt barrier. Sail alot deeper off the wind, as soon as you do this you will realise you need a bigger sail.
For example, In 20knts of wind you bear away (deep off the wind) and start doing 25+knts you will start to feel way underpowered beacuse with a sail thats comfy catching the wind square on is now battlig to pull you along in next to no wind.
In 20knts I'm on 7.8m not to be mucho but to enable me to be still powered up sailing very broad.
I think yrou first goal needs to be bear away more and start to feel the sail has no more power and you over sheet. At this point you have gone deep enough and you will start to want to rig bigger. The hardest part of the bare away (slingshot) last a fews seconds. It's as you go from a reach to deep off the wind. You will know you have gone deep as the sail goes light and its really comy. If you dont go deep enough the power in your sail just pulls you on to your toes.
I better stop this rambler now. ![]()
Best of luck cracking 30knts and remember is all for fun anyway![]()
I've experienced that..
well done sue for beating a few of the guys today. Just need to bear off MORE!
www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2013-11-10&team=9
Hi Sue. Lots of good advice to be gleaned from the posts so far but I recon the bit about using a smaller board is the biggest tip. At your weight you need to be on something with a "speed" rocker and outline, and much less than 78 litres! With your smaller sails in 25 knots+ of wind you should be on something more like 50-60 litres and well under 50cm wide.
I suggest you pick up an older Isonic 50 speed board. (46.5cm wide and about 55 litres). It is a nice safe moderate sized speed board with an easy to get going rocker line and it rides small chop really well. It is also wide enough to gybe and go upwind well for a smaller rider. (This is the board I used for my PB 28.8 kts 1hr on Lake George and did oodles of 40+ speed runs on). I few of these have changed hands on Seabreeze in the last year or two for quite modest prices. eg: www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Windsurfing-Boards/~ahusz/2008-Starboard-Isonic-Speed-Special-218-cm-50-litres.aspx?search=JlbffQL!12aWQHI42KOFFS5XVbXJbkIJ
I also modified mine by bringing the starboard tack front strap back 50mm to close the stance up for my modest height. see: http://mtbest.net/isonic50.html This enables us shorter people to get a more upright, comfortable stance when far off the wind to increase leverage and keep the back leg a bit straighter.
When you get down to Sandy Point this summer
you can borrow this board and you be amazed at the difference! Plug in a 20cm KA speed fin and a small KA koncept and you will be pulling 35's in no time.
Once you get the feel for the set up and speed you will be able to plug it in back at your home spot as well.
Thanks Sailquick! Unfortunately I don't get to travel much so unlikely to get to Sandy Point. Canton Beach is probably the furthest I will get..Pity as Sandy Point looks amazing although I'd probably need a 1m sail in the kind of wind they get there..![]()
Lots of good advice to be gleaned from the posts so far but I recon the bit about using a smaller board is the biggest tip. At your weight you need to be on something with a "speed" rocker and outline, and much less than 78 litres! With your smaller sails in 25 knots+ of wind you should be on something more like 50-60 litres and well under 50cm wide.
Hi Sue I would agree with Sailquik, your boards/fins sounds way too big. Im a similar weight to you and yesterday I was on my f2 missile which is 63 litres and 48cm wide. see session www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2013-11-10&team=1 with a 5.8 sail and got 3 runs over 31 knots and a few 30 knot 2 sec runs, this was when bearing off a lot and in choppy water, when I was just reaching (having fun staying where the flat water was I was only getting 28 to 29 knots max but soon as I did the bearaway speeds increased). I use this board a lot and is really only like a small slalom board for me. I do get a few strange looks from some of the bigger guys how say are you going out on that! but in relation to size is appropriate and so much more fun to sail.
This is my small board (although not really small enough for me when the wind really gets up however living in Qld we don't get many epic days so this size suits me really well. Usually using 5.8 HSM GPS or 5.0 HSM gps sails on it. I can get it going in 15 knots of wind and the boards gybes really well (this is my PB board for alpha and flys up wind with a 25 or 22cm fin). Don't worry too much about the age of boards/fins/etc, excluding sails all my kit is 6-7 years old some of the fins even older I think small kit, flat water and technique has more to do with it. I always struggle to get any real good speeds when the water is choppy I don't have the weight to hold the board down in the water.
The first 30 knots I did I think it took me almost a year (so keep at it) and I was on my 84lt Jp slalom board with a 5.3 non cambered sail and 26cm fin. I could never get this set up past about 32 knots though so decided to buy the speed board and get some cambered sails and this makes it so much easier.
However I did for the first time get a 31 knot run on my 6.6 and same 84 JP slalom board in about 15 + knots with the occasional stronger gusts but REALLY FLAT water and a perfect angle to bear away on down a very small sand bank.(like a mini sandy point) This makes all the difference. I tried loads of times with this size before but never managed to get past 29 knots.
Thanks everyone. Might have to build another storage shed and get a bigger car before I get another board.. 3 boards 4 masts 8 sails + miscel is all I can store and carry!
I bore away more last sail and used a cammed Severne 6m -15-20kts +and B & J conditions.It was so stable it was amazing! I'd usually be using my 4.8m Sailworks Hucker in those gusts..It felt mad flying down over the backs of waves / chop.. Do you usually just bear away over them or wait to see if there is flatter water? Any flatter bits we had = no wind..
What Roar and the others are saying is this:
When you sail "normally" up and down, it is 90 degrees to the wind. To go fast, you need to go as much as 135 degrees off the wind (downwind). Now, you bear away, you are going in a downwind direction - so your apparent wind changes, similar to if you're standing on the back of a ute (not suggested, just an imaginary example) going 40 km per hour and the wind is blowing 40km per hour in the direction you're going. You're going to feel "windless" and that's what the guys are talking about when you lose that feeling of power, and you oversheet... So I would recommend a bigger sail (6's?)in the lower wind conditions 15 - lower 20's, with which you will feel overpowered when launching, but more comfy when bearing away. It is always easier to go from 25 knots to 30 than from 0 ;) so make sure you are comfortable and in control and going fast before stepping on the accelerator and turning downwind...don't go broad from launching. In the higher wind ranges, you can change down to smaller sails. To keep the shape of the sail, I would recommend a cambered sail, cause a RAF will lose it's shape when you get into the downwind zone and it loses power. But lots and lots of downhaul - my brother always says you pull till something in your gut rips, then a little more (just a saying, use the sail manufacturer's settings for the downhaul max setting).
My two cents worth anyway.
>>>>.It felt mad flying down over the backs of waves / chop.. Do you usually just bear away over them or wait to see if there is flatter water?>>>.
The top guys can go fast over the backs of big chop, but if you haven't got the skill, (like me) there's big risks involved, spinning out is a real possibility, when the fin comes out of the water, and when it does so tripping the front rail on the back of the next chop, is also highly likely. Not a very pleasant experience!
Quite a few places I've sailed, in spots, the chop doesn't run dead downwind, the bottom shape makes the lines curve. So in one direction following the chop is more downwind than the other. If you can find a place like this you don't have to bounce over the back of the chop quite as much. But again there is a downside, going fast over chop at an angle can set up a wobble in the board, this also seems to help cause spin out.
Slowy's advise to me, when I asked how he managed so well in chop, was to have "jelly legs". The chop is coming at you much too fast for any reflex action, so you have to have enough give in your legs to keep the board in the water.
That was about 4 years ago, and I'm still trying to do it. I guess it's much easier here to keep to flat water.
>>>>.It felt mad flying down over the backs of waves / chop.. Do you usually just bear away over them or wait to see if there is flatter water?>>>.
The top guys can go fast over the backs of big chop, but if you haven't got the skill, (like me) there's big risks involved, spinning out is a real possibility, when the fin comes out of the water, and when it does so tripping the front rail on the back of the next chop, is also highly likely. Not a very pleasant experience!
Quite a few places I've sailed, in spots, the chop doesn't run dead downwind, the bottom shape makes the lines curve. So in one direction following the chop is more downwind than the other. If you can find a place like this you don't have to bounce over the back of the chop quite as much. But again there is a downside, going fast over chop at an angle can set up a wobble in the board, this also seems to help cause spin out.
Slowy's advise to me, when I asked how he managed so well in chop, was to have "jelly legs". The chop is coming at you much too fast for any reflex action, so you have to have enough give in your legs to keep the board in the water.
That was about 4 years ago, and I'm still trying to do it. I guess it's much easier here to keep to flat water.
I think i was on that tack..
It was more wavey than the shorter sharp stuff the other way. Now you've got me worried re bearing off in chop.Ignorance was bliss!![]()
I get the general idea of jelly legs as I XCD ski so know to absorb the bumps and look for a line down the hill although I must admit I've been a bit slack transferring the line idea to sailboarding..
I also sail so I know re apparent wind etc and needing to have the boat powered up ( ugh working the main sheet) so you have enough sail up for the downwind legs of the race.
I find like a 6.2 slalom sail more controllable in say a 20 - 22 kt wind than a 5.3 wave sail. Slalom sails can take a lot, I'm so amazed some times that I'm out there with a 5.4 slalom sail and the guys are out there with a 4.7 wave and they can't get over that I'm out there with a bigger sail than them and easily holding it down. The more you try and sail with bigger sails the stronger you'll get and feel more comfortable with them.
Actually I remember not long ago when I got 35. something 2 sec and I was on a 5.1 slalom sail and an other guy was on a 3.7 wave, he was having a lot of trouble in the gusts where I would bear off in the gusts and go with the gust instead of fighting the gust going upwind. You just have to keep doing that and gradually it starts to feel like second nature and not scarey.
I find like a 6.2 slalom sail more controllable in say a 20 - 22 kt wind than a 5.3 wave sail. Slalom sails can take a lot, I'm so amazed some times that I'm out there with a 5.4 slalom sail and the guys are out there with a 4.7 wave and they can't get over that I'm out there with a bigger sail than them and easily holding it down. The more you try and sail with bigger sails the stronger you'll get and feel more comfortable with them.
Actually I remember not long ago when I got 35. something 2 sec and I was on a 5.1 slalom sail and an other guy was on a 3.7 wave, he was having a lot of trouble in the gusts where I would bear off in the gusts and go with the gust instead of fighting the gust going upwind. You just have to keep doing that and gradually it starts to feel like second nature and not scarey.
I think I am noticing that already!
Sorry couldn't email you a picture of my 7.5 OD rigged to show the floppiness so put it on this page because I knew you would read this. that's rigged on a wrong mast for that sail, but you'll get the idea.
If you pushed the foot down to the ground and then pushed on the top corner of the leach there would be a lot of twist.
It is loose down to the batten above the boom. Wouldn't want to go more than that!
Probably angle & wrong mast and light wind floppy. It was the only photo I have & was the first time I'ld rigged it. But yes probably not floppy enough, good for 12-15 kts but I'ld crank the dowhaul on a bit if it got stronger. With the wrong mast it went floppy down to the 4th batten & not so much at the top, too soft in the wrong areas. Bit of a pain but you can't beat having the right mast for the sail.
Sue, I don't think you need to get too hung up on your weight or being a girl.
Even maybe not to worried about angle to the wind stuff.
30 kts is doable with a 100L ish board 30cm ish fin and 5.5m ish sail in 20 ish knots.
If you are not using 4 straps then do and keep moving them back. And mast base.
Commit to harness and almost straighten legs, just not lock knees. Hips ahead of shoulders.
Lift a bit with front foot, flatten board with rear foot and feel the board ride up on the fin.
Then just let the board run gently off the wind and feel the speed.
Then keep going smaller on gear.
Not disagreeing with above points at all, there is great advice there.... especially around going further downwind than one would think you need to....
I think its also about getting a "feel" for going at that speed... First time over 30 may require being a little overpowered with a smaller sail but the second, third time and so on get easier... then you start chasing 35 and the great challenge that keeps this sport so interesting continues....
Once you hit it once it wont be long and 35 will be the new 30 ![]()