Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Weight v speed

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Created by mikey100 > 9 months ago, 28 Oct 2007
mikey100
QLD, 1099 posts
28 Oct 2007 10:21PM
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Got an idea (yea, it hurt).. need to know peoples Weight when sailing (add wt jacket if you wear one) divided by max speed To start things....mine is- 1.96. Ta.

mr love
VIC, 2404 posts
28 Oct 2007 11:53PM
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2.17 for me . But what does it all mean ???

hardie
WA, 4129 posts
28 Oct 2007 9:58PM
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91kg's ( This morning) divided by 38.2kt's is what?

2.38

elmo
WA, 8868 posts
28 Oct 2007 9:59PM
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2.26

mineral1
WA, 4564 posts
28 Oct 2007 10:02PM
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3.62. but why

Bender
WA, 2235 posts
28 Oct 2007 10:03PM
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2.31

so does this mean i'm fat or slow??

(86kg/37.3knts)

decrepit
WA, 12767 posts
28 Oct 2007 10:26PM
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close enough to 2 off the top of my head. That kilograms and Knots as units.

And I agree, what is this idea that hurt so much, we're all intrigued so spit it out.

hardie
WA, 4129 posts
28 Oct 2007 10:28PM
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It appears that the lower the number the better the ratio, therefore fat boys like me have a slightly higher number than lightweights such as you decrep, therefore making you superior to me

kato
VIC, 3507 posts
29 Oct 2007 12:33AM
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1.77???????
or 1.97 with weight

yoyo
WA, 1646 posts
28 Oct 2007 11:04PM
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weight without height is just ballast

decrepit
WA, 12767 posts
28 Oct 2007 11:17PM
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yoyo said...

weight without height is just ballast


Too true, you have to get center of gravity into it somehow.

hardie
WA, 4129 posts
28 Oct 2007 11:19PM
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decrepit said...

yoyo said...

weight without height is just ballast


Too true, you have to get center of gravity into it somehow.



What about attitude?

decrepit
WA, 12767 posts
28 Oct 2007 11:43PM
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hardie said...

What about attitude?



Physical or psychological???

firiebob
WA, 3172 posts
29 Oct 2007 1:38AM
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2.71

snides8
WA, 1731 posts
29 Oct 2007 8:54AM
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1.861.............. what a coincidense the same as my i.Q.

Wineman
NSW, 1412 posts
29 Oct 2007 12:42PM
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2.75

It's the old Nigerian Knot Scam...

Don't give too much info...or you may lose knots

or gain weight

frant
VIC, 1230 posts
29 Oct 2007 12:59PM
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If I weigh 100 kg in my sailing gear then my ratio should be about 2

Haggar
QLD, 1670 posts
29 Oct 2007 12:19PM
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2.2222

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
29 Oct 2007 2:02PM
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1.77 with 5kgs extra weight.

frant
VIC, 1230 posts
29 Oct 2007 2:58PM
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mikey100 said...

Got an idea (yea, it hurt).. need to know peoples Weight when sailing (add wt jacket if you wear one) divided by max speed To start things....mine is- 1.96. Ta.

Having looked at a few of the quoted figures I think we should multiply the inverse of the ratio by your weight to get a meaningfull figure.

4XL
VIC, 222 posts
29 Oct 2007 4:11PM
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3.86
WEIGHT WITH HEIGHT
I need to go faster than 35kn

mikey100
QLD, 1099 posts
29 Oct 2007 5:23PM
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O.K.- I thought most would get a ratio of between 1.9 and 2.1, and while many did, not enough to base a handicap SPEED event on where lightweights could compete with heavyweights. Seems to work for average sailors betwween 70-100kg, but then, guys like Daffy go just too fast for their weight... seems skill also plays an important part. Thanks all for proving me wrong.

snides8
WA, 1731 posts
29 Oct 2007 5:59PM
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location is also going to make a big (massive) difference as well- i believe mandurah is a faster spot than the swan and in turn sandy point is faster than mandurah,so i am led to believe....
basically if you are a lightweight say under 80kg,you are going to be behind the compared with the heavier guys all things being equal that is...just my opinion

mikey why not use sailors average speed pb? this would be a better indication of a sailors speed- as a lot of sailors, including myself, have had quite "impressive" 2 sec speeds...

on reflection mikey i wouldnt be to discouraged with the idea of a handicap system, at the end of the day there is still a lot of variables involved your just trying to make the playing field a little more level which (as a light weight i applaud) it is after all a measure of skill you are looking for. who would you say was the most skilled out of the following sailors in making a board go fast? Robby or Finnian?

Bender
WA, 2235 posts
29 Oct 2007 6:53PM
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Handicap system eh, like the sound of that. So does that mean Elmo(newest member of 40knt club) now has to have two plastic shopping bags attached to his fin when speed sailing.

snides8
WA, 1731 posts
29 Oct 2007 7:01PM
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Bender said...

Handicap system eh, like the sound of that. So does that mean Elmo(newest member of 40knt club) now has to have two plastic shopping bags attached to his fin when speed sailing.


hey Ben when you hit that weed down there it feels like 2 shopping bags plus the groceries!! are hanging from your fin

Bender
WA, 2235 posts
29 Oct 2007 8:42PM
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Yeh Snides i hit a couple(weed patches) on saturday and had a nice trip over the nose.

TimeMachine
89 posts
29 Oct 2007 10:21PM
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I like where this is going. A reasonable handicap system could be developed based on the average PBs set at a location, weight, height and 5x10 of the sailor, and speed squared. Let me explain...

Each location will have its own standard, which I think could be measured with the best X number of PBs acheived at that location. Sandy Point for example has an average top 20 5x10 of 42.32 knots based on rankings in GPSSS. 20 seems like a reasonable number, as long as it doesn't include an abnormal number of international hotshots. Strand horst has 38.72.

Speed is exponentially more difficult to attain as you go faster. So any comparison should be based on the square of the speed. However the location has a peculiar effect on the speeds attainable to. For example 38 knots is quite easily achieved at Sandy point but very difficult on open water. We need to use the same logic for the location average speed as the sailor speed by putting the square of the sailors speed over the square of the location speed (hope I haven't lost anyone yet...).

So here is my formula for a handicap system:
handicap value = (1000*SA*SA) / (W*H*LA*LA)
where:
SA = Sailor average 5x10
W = weight in KGs
H = height in Metres
LA = location top 20 average 5x10
1000 = scaled up to a meaningful number

Some examples:
Chris at SP = (1000*46.2*46.2)/(95*1.92*42.32*42.23) = 7.09
Andrew Daff at SP = (1000*46.2*46.2)/(74*1.77*42.32*42.23) = 7.96
Serge Beumer as Strand Hst = (1000*40.38*40.38)/(80*1.91*38.72*38.72) = 7.12

I was going to provide more examples from other locations but not many locations show up in the GPSSS search tool.

TimeMachine
89 posts
29 Oct 2007 10:30PM
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Sorry, copied some numbers wrong...

Chris at SP = (1000*47.2*47.2)/(95*1.85*42.32*42.23) = 7.09
Andrew Daff at SP = (1000*43.16*43.16)/(74*1.77*42.32*42.23) = 7.96
Serge Beumer as Strand Hst = (1000*40.38*40.38)/(80*1.91*38.72*38.72) = 7.12

And mine...
Mal = (1000*46.2*46.2)/(95*1.92*42.32*42.23) = 6.55

So Daff is still the winner with the highest handicap number. But only just! If I get about 51 knots I have got him!

mineral1
WA, 4564 posts
29 Oct 2007 10:35PM
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Mal so working on that, you are never going to catch him?
Or have I missed your point?
Some how his needs to be set so you and him are close and any improvement See's one or the other change and then a recalculation if one or the other continues to perform at new level to bring playing field back to compatibility, yes?
Mineral

elmo
WA, 8868 posts
29 Oct 2007 10:41PM
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Mine at Hardies Run

(1000*37.0*37.0)/(91*1.854*34.33*34.33)= 6.88

TimeMachine
89 posts
29 Oct 2007 11:03PM
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I forgot to put Andrews additional 5kg weight vest into the calcs, whereas it was included with Chris's at 95 KG total weight. It still left Andrew in the lead at 7.45 but only by half the margin. If Chris got back to fighting weight of 85kgs and no weight jacket then he could match Andrew at 45.75 knots, and for me around 48.5 knots.

In reality, this formula might be penalising the taller heavy guy more than necessary. It assumes that both weight and height have a linear benefit, when that is probably not the case. More likely the combination is linear. Maybe those factors need some kind of adjustment.



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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Weight v speed" started by mikey100