First results with the Canmore GPS GP-102+

Great article boardsurfr. just had a look at these here too www.canadagps.com/Canmore_GP-102plus.html
Hopefully one of the GPS gurus (Sailquik, Matthew et al) on here can shed some further light on their suitability and ability to have specific firmware written to suit windsurfing.

User manual (no Nm setting by the looks) http://file.canmore.com.tw/download/GP-102+%20user%20manual_English.pdf

GPS DATA LOGGER: records up to 300,000 waypoints with date, time, altitude and speed.

Bloody tiny too

Looks a nice bit of kit,good price too.

Great find!

Good to read your results as well!

One very nice thing about this GPS is that it actually records the Doppler speed data! That is a really good start!

Could you read the .fit files directly into GPS-Results? If not, how?

I look forward to hearing more about your testing and will see if I can get one to try.

It will be interesting to see if Canmore are open to firmware mods to get accuracy data and other useful functions. More memory would be a big priority too.

I got two more GP102+ units today, and tested them against 3 other GPS units (two GT-31s and a FlySight). Had to do this driving around instead of windsurfing since we had no wind, but the results are similar to what I saw before - the GP102+ GPS is at least as accurate as the GT-31s. It also is easily available, still being produced, and significantly cheaper than GT-31s and Garmins, and uses a newer Sirf IV chip instead of the ancient Sirf III chip in the GT-31. It is not perfect, but it does record doppler speeds to a binary file. Results and details (including how to find the data on ka72.com) on my blog at boardsurfr.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-5-gps-comparison.html

I suggest to add the Canmore G-Porter GP102+ to the list of approved GPS units for the GPS Team Challenge.

Great to hear that Canmore is open to suggestions. Having data for HDoP, SDoP, and number of satellites would be great (although I have the suspicion that the values would pretty much always would be below thresholds, at least when windsurfing with undamaged units). Still, would be nice (but not essential) to have them.

What I'd think would be more useful would be a screen that shows the max speed larger. I wear contacts when sailing, and have a hard time reading the small numbers. Another thing that is missing is a speed genie function - it would be great to see the max speed from the last run.

I have tested one GPS unit with a 10 Hz MTK chip (not a Qstarx, though). It turned out the MTK chip does not record doppler speeds. It does records a speed that shows up as "doppler" in GPS Action Replay, and is different from the position-based speed. It's not really doppler, though. The dead giveaway was that I reached speeds above 100 and even 1000 knots several times while windsurfing. Seems the chip did not track position well, and sometimes needed to make big adjustments. Those were the biggest spikes I have ever seen. I never blogged about it, since this may have just been a bad unit. But I never tested any more MTK-based units because of the missing doppler.

Select to expand quote

fangman said..

fangman said..

Slightly off topic and my apologies to boardsurfr, but I am not sure whether this warrants a whole new topic - I have a gps logger (Qstarx BT818 XT 10hz) using a MTK chip that I happily connect via USB or Bluetooth but cannot download. If anyone has experience with MacOsx and mtk chips I would love to hear from you!!

Problem solved and if anyone is contemplating one of these units (QSTarz 818) for windsurfing; my advice is don't. They're totally not suitable.

One of these units.... does this mean the Canmore GP-102+ or another GPS. Sorry but I'm not sure what you are referring to.

Hey Fangy don't test it to destruction before I get back, would love to see it in action.

Just a (sail)quick update....(apologies stealing your thunder too)

Sailquik has been working busily behind the scenes and has been in contact with Canmore regarding modifying the firmware and possibly the hardware to suit the windsurfing community's needs better. We hopefully will have some units soon to independently test their suitability. Sailquik has flagged some issues re: data format, lack of a speed genie function, battery life and data memory with some an easier fix than others. Anyway we hope to have some definitive feedback as soon as the GPS windsurfing brains trust completes their testing and analysis.

RE: GT-31
As an aside Sailquik noted that the test Boardsurfr did in the above did bring up an issue. The GT-31 should not be used on the low power setting. It destroys accuracy. Perhaps the captains can pass this on to their teams.

Select to expand quote

seanhogan said..
yeah go ahead red thumb the snagg for his update.... wtf ????

that green/red thumbs gets me... if someone disapproves a post, why not reply instead of cowardly hiding behind a red thumb ??

(I do admit I have used it a few times at the beginning when reading silly posts...but got over it )

Or else why not have a scroll down list with the names of the "thumbers"(green& red) that appears when you put the arrow/hand over it ? Could be interesting.....

Sean,
It's just my friendly red thumber - doesn't matter what's written, just that it's my post! I'm a big boy

Select to expand quote

sausage said..
... Sailquik has flagged some issues re: data format, lack of a speed genie function, battery life and data memory ...

I've been emailing with Sailquik. Note that the issues he raises are things were improvements would be nice, but they are not absolutely necessary. Battery life is something like 14 hours, enough for a few sessions without recharging. 250,000 data points at 1 Hz means about 70 hours of sessions. For most windsurfers, that's enough to record all sessions in a 2-week vacation.

The data format means you have to use a separate program to convert to a text-based format. Not a big deal for many users, but an extra hurdle if you don't use computers much. The current format lacks satellite and accuracy data, meaning the unit is not suitable for record attempts. A firmware version that saves to SBP format would solve all these issues. Total recording time would go down a bit, but should still be >30 hours and thus sufficient.

The thing I miss most is the speed genie function. You can see your top speed for the session, but not the last run. For normal (non-record) use, I'd put speed genie on the top of my wish list. Support for knots as a unit (currently only km and miles) would be second.

Select to expand quote

Roo said..


I can understand the desire for a new GPS to replace the GT11/GT31 that has been around since 2005 but why use obsolete technology. The Sirf IV chipset was released in 2009 and has already been updated with the Sirf V. Also using a 1hz recording rate doesn't improve the accuracy. The Sirf V is a 5hz chipset with binary output and the ability to log data to the memory on the chipset.

Roo

I agree with regard the technology, but there are a few hurdles to jump first. For example, can you find a commercially available unit that is using the Sirf V Chip, second does the unit have the basic pre requisites with regard IPX rating etc, third, is it reasonably priced and finally is the manufacturer willing to make modifications for what is a relatively small market? At the moment Canmore was the only company that I could find that jumped all those hurdles and maybe in future they might even upgrade to a Sirf V chip.

Hey Plettil,
Tony at Canada GPS is really helpful. I was in contact with him about our requirements and the functionality of the units you suggest. If memory serves me correctly the Canmore 102 was the unit that ticked most of the boxes straight up and was an inexpensive unit. I wear a helmet mounted unit and don't really pay a lot of attention to the results on water and so not having a display was not a big deal for me either, but I thought the Canmore 102 came closest as being a direct replacement for the GT31. I am not saying the others are not suitable, just that the 102 is the unit I decided to try out. Also,I don't know if it applied to the models you mentioned, but some of them can update at 10 hz but still log at 1 hz. The other thing I found is that often there is a particular chipset used by lots of different GPS companies who have simply tinkered with the box it comes in. For example the Qstarz range and the iBlue range share the MTK chipset made by Transystems. And finally, the software that comes with some of the units is horrible!

I did a bit of checking and confirmed that at least some versions of the Sitf4 GPS chip are capable of 5hz output.

This means that existing GPS loggers that otherwise may suit our needs like the Canmore 102+, may be able to updated for 5hz recording.

I see Boardsurfr instructions for getting the data out of the Canmore G-Porter 102+ involves converting to GPX but I think converting from Sirf Binary to GPX files loses the last decimal of accuracy if my memory serves me correctly.

I had a look at the sirf binary protocol manual (http://www.usglobalsat.com/downloads/SiRF_Binary_Protocol.pdf) and I could not see any reference to SDOP. But then being a newcomber to this area, I then decided to research what SDOP actually stands for and it's significance. I found a good description here (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilution_of_precision_(GPS) but no mention of SDOP. So can someone please tell me what it stands for and what it's significance is?