Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk

Does PWA sailors ever sail unhooked during slalom race?

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Created by Nubie > 9 months ago, 6 Jun 2021
Nubie
70 posts
6 Jun 2021 3:31AM
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I notice on many Robby videos that he often sail unhooked,I do this almost always when wind is strong because I am scared of crash,but why one of best windsurfer ever also do this,is his age reason for this?

I really feel more in control when unhook and for me it is almost impossible to crash when you sail unhooked,but I am beginner

Does PWA sailors do this during race?

choco
SA, 4175 posts
6 Jun 2021 7:00AM
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Better off in the harness, you can control the sail when overpowered without crashing just takes practise.

LeeD
3939 posts
6 Jun 2021 9:32AM
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In planing, but not fully powered mode, and also stuck in bad air, fully planing, racers often sail unhooked while pumping and adjusting sail angle to "find" the wind. A photo might show unhooked sailing, but he is moving the sail around.

John340
QLD, 3363 posts
6 Jun 2021 1:18PM
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I believe PWA sailors, apart from transitions, always hook in.

Robbie was also mostly hooked in. He unhooked only during the big gusts and when sailing through the impact zone.

I always feel more secure when hooked in.

Nubie
70 posts
6 Jun 2021 12:12PM
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choco said..
Better off in the harness, you can control the sail when overpowered without crashing just takes practise.


What mean "better off in the harness" hooked or unhooked?

choco
SA, 4175 posts
6 Jun 2021 4:49PM
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Nubie said..

choco said..
Better off in the harness, you can control the sail when overpowered without crashing just takes practise.



What mean "better off in the harness" hooked or unhooked?


hooked

Nubie
70 posts
6 Jun 2021 3:30PM
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choco said..

Nubie said..


choco said..
Better off in the harness, you can control the sail when overpowered without crashing just takes practise.




What mean "better off in the harness" hooked or unhooked?



hooked


But why then he sail unhooked in tricky condition,Robby is not beginner?

cald
QLD, 164 posts
6 Jun 2021 6:13PM
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Robbie is not a pwa slalom racer anymore either... Robbie unhooking during free riding is world away from the top level slalom racers trying to win races... the only reason they would be un hooked is too get around a corner and get the board speed back up.
To sail with their power and trim you are not doing unhooked.

aeroegnr
1731 posts
6 Jun 2021 7:29PM
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He was also unhooking to jump.

If you unhook and you aren't expecting it (chop or swell knocks you), you can lose control if you're not good at adding mast base pressure by sinking your weight into the sail without the harness. If you've got it weighted up, it keeps the nose down. But, I mostly saw him hooked in.

duzzi
1120 posts
7 Jun 2021 12:39AM
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Select to expand quote
Nubie said..





choco said..






Nubie said..







choco said..
Better off in the harness, you can control the sail when overpowered without crashing just takes practise.









What mean "better off in the harness" hooked or unhooked?








hooked







But why then he sail unhooked in tricky condition,Robby is not beginner?






He says (around 5'30") that he feels more in control when unhooked and going "that fast". I am not so sure if it is such a good advise, nobody would really last long sailing unhooked. And it is hard to tell "how fast" he is going. The video is clearly massaged, with a skipping video and a lot of noise to give the impression of speed, but he basically freeriding with a small sail ... he can unhook with a 5.4, but it is not really an optimal asset for speed ...

Nubie
70 posts
7 Jun 2021 1:18AM
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Select to expand quote
duzzi said..

Nubie said..






choco said..







Nubie said..








choco said..
Better off in the harness, you can control the sail when overpowered without crashing just takes practise.










What mean "better off in the harness" hooked or unhooked?









hooked








But why then he sail unhooked in tricky condition,Robby is not beginner?







He says (around 5'30") that he feels more in control when unhooked and going "that fast". I am not so sure if it is such a good advise, nobody would really last long sailing unhooked. And it is hard to tell "how fast" he is going. The video is clearly massaged, with a skipping video and a lot of noise to give the impression of speed, but he basically freeriding with a small sail ... he can unhook with a 5.4, but it is not really an optimal asset for speed ...


Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?

LeeD
3939 posts
7 Jun 2021 1:56AM
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You can unhook to gain control when op'd.
But PWA sailor would unhook in dirty air to pump back into a cleaner air position.

duzzi
1120 posts
7 Jun 2021 4:43AM
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Select to expand quote
Nubie said..









duzzi said..










Nubie said..















choco said..
















Nubie said..

















choco said..
Better off in the harness, you can control the sail when overpowered without crashing just takes practise.








What mean "better off in the harness" hooked or unhooked?







hooked








But why then he sail unhooked in tricky condition,Robby is not beginner?








He says (around 5'30") that he feels more in control when unhooked and going "that fast". I am not so sure if it is such a good advise, nobody would really last long sailing unhooked. And it is hard to tell "how fast" he is going. The video is clearly massaged, with a skipping video and a lot of noise to give the impression of speed, but he basically freeriding with a small sail ... he can unhook with a 5.4, but it is not really an optimal asset for speed ...








Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?





I do not sail in 35 knots with a 8.5 sail. I actually stay home in 35 Knots! (that is, moderately high (18-25 ft) waves of greater length, edges of crests begin to break into spindrift, foam blown in streaks)

Of course everybody does unhook (PWA or not) before a jibe, returning to the beach, pumping the sail, and a bunch of other situations. But in a straight line it means that either you are just having fun and are not really that powered up (the conditions of Naish's video, he is obviously in easy control in very tame conditions, despite how the video makes it look like), or you are very much completely maxed out and out of control (8.5 in 35) and then speed is really not a concern!

So: to the original question. No, sailing unhooked serves very little purpose other than tire you out!

jusavina
QLD, 1489 posts
7 Jun 2021 8:47AM
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They unhook at the jibe.

LeeD
3939 posts
7 Jun 2021 7:50AM
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If any of you ever tried a slalom race, you would know sailors 2 thru 8 are sailing in dirty air and water, and are constantly pumping and changing board direction and sail angles.

John340
QLD, 3363 posts
7 Jun 2021 12:00PM
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Check out the following video from 2019 Fuerteventura PWA event. With the exception of transitions (i.e. gybes) in all the close ups video shots, the sailors are hooked in.

www.pwaworldtour.com/index.php?id=389

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
7 Jun 2021 12:09PM
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Select to expand quote
Nubie said..
Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?


No way are you sailing an 8.5m sail in 35Knots of wind unless you are King Kong's big brother! Maybe you meant 35KPH?

What world cup slalom racers do is 90% irrelevant to the average recreational windsurfer, and 100% irrelevant to a "Nubie".

Nubie
70 posts
8 Jun 2021 1:55AM
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sailquik said..


Nubie said..
Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?




No way are you sailing an 8.5m sail in 35Knots of wind unless you are King Kong's big brother! Maybe you meant 35KPH?

What world cup slalom racers do is 90% irrelevant to the average recreational windsurfer, and 100% irrelevant to a "Nubie".



For sure I dont sail in these condition,I survive...This happend only twice when wind pick up
Even with 5.5 I unhook when big gusts come,because I am scared of catapult.
So I wonder why best windusrfer ever do this...

duzzi
1120 posts
8 Jun 2021 3:51AM
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Select to expand quote
Nubie said..


sailquik said..




Nubie said..
Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?






No way are you sailing an 8.5m sail in 35Knots of wind unless you are King Kong's big brother! Maybe you meant 35KPH?

What world cup slalom racers do is 90% irrelevant to the average recreational windsurfer, and 100% irrelevant to a "Nubie".





For sure I dont sail in these condition,I survive...This happend only twice when wind pick up
Even with 5.5 I unhook when big gusts come,because I am scared of catapult.
So I wonder why best windusrfer ever do this...



Very few people can windsurf comfortably in real 35 knots of wind. I would need a 3.0 to try. But going back to your question, I would completely disregard what Naish says in the video. First, he is Naish, and second it is the worst advise to give to a beginner. You just pin pointed the problem: you are scared of a catapult. It is a sort of vicious circle, you get scared, maybe open the sail, upset your asset, as a result you bring your weight forward, get more scared because you start to feel a serious pull forward, and finally unhook to try to bring things sort of in control.

The trick is to commit. Keep your weight back, do not put too much pressure on the fin, do not open the sail, crouch down by bending your knees (no seven position if very overpowered), and things will stay in control. And keep those harness lines loaded: they are your friend!

Nubie
70 posts
8 Jun 2021 4:01AM
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Select to expand quote
duzzi said..



Nubie said..





sailquik said..







Nubie said..
Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?









No way are you sailing an 8.5m sail in 35Knots of wind unless you are King Kong's big brother! Maybe you meant 35KPH?

What world cup slalom racers do is 90% irrelevant to the average recreational windsurfer, and 100% irrelevant to a "Nubie".








For sure I dont sail in these condition,I survive...This happend only twice when wind pick up
Even with 5.5 I unhook when big gusts come,because I am scared of catapult.
So I wonder why best windusrfer ever do this...






Very few people can windsurf comfortably in real 35 knots of wind. I would need a 3.0 to try. But going back to your question, I would completely disregard what Naish says in the video. First, he is Naish, and second it is the worst advise to give to a beginner. You just pin pointed the problem: you are scared of a catapult. It is a sort of vicious circle, you get scared, maybe open the sail, upset your asset, as a result you bring your weight forward, get more scared because you start to feel a serious pull forward, and finally unhook to try to bring things sort of in control.

The trick is to commit. Keep your weight back, do not put too much pressure on the fin, do not open the sail, crouch down by bending your knees (no seven position if very overpowered), and things will stay in control. And keep those harness lines loaded: they are your friend!




Robby do this all the time,but I still dont understand why pro wsurfer(best ever) do this..
I never seen that pro wsurfer sail unhooked

duzzi
1120 posts
8 Jun 2021 4:41AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Nubie said..


duzzi said..





Nubie said..







sailquik said..









Nubie said..
Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?











No way are you sailing an 8.5m sail in 35Knots of wind unless you are King Kong's big brother! Maybe you meant 35KPH?

What world cup slalom racers do is 90% irrelevant to the average recreational windsurfer, and 100% irrelevant to a "Nubie".










For sure I dont sail in these condition,I survive...This happend only twice when wind pick up
Even with 5.5 I unhook when big gusts come,because I am scared of catapult.
So I wonder why best windusrfer ever do this...








Very few people can windsurf comfortably in real 35 knots of wind. I would need a 3.0 to try. But going back to your question, I would completely disregard what Naish says in the video. First, he is Naish, and second it is the worst advise to give to a beginner. You just pin pointed the problem: you are scared of a catapult. It is a sort of vicious circle, you get scared, maybe open the sail, upset your asset, as a result you bring your weight forward, get more scared because you start to feel a serious pull forward, and finally unhook to try to bring things sort of in control.

The trick is to commit. Keep your weight back, do not put too much pressure on the fin, do not open the sail, crouch down by bending your knees (no seven position if very overpowered), and things will stay in control. And keep those harness lines loaded: they are your friend!






Robby do this all the time,but I still dont understand why pro wsurfer(best ever) do this..
I never seen that pro wsurfer sail unhooked



Anybody can sail unhooked, in a straight line it is just not efficient, and nobody can sail unhooked for long. Do you want to follow something that Naish says in a video because what he says is gospel? Help yourself. We are all telling you that that suggestion is not such a great idea.

Nubie
70 posts
8 Jun 2021 4:54AM
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Select to expand quote
duzzi said..



Nubie said..





duzzi said..








Nubie said..










sailquik said..












Nubie said..
Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?














No way are you sailing an 8.5m sail in 35Knots of wind unless you are King Kong's big brother! Maybe you meant 35KPH?

What world cup slalom racers do is 90% irrelevant to the average recreational windsurfer, and 100% irrelevant to a "Nubie".













For sure I dont sail in these condition,I survive...This happend only twice when wind pick up
Even with 5.5 I unhook when big gusts come,because I am scared of catapult.
So I wonder why best windusrfer ever do this...











Very few people can windsurf comfortably in real 35 knots of wind. I would need a 3.0 to try. But going back to your question, I would completely disregard what Naish says in the video. First, he is Naish, and second it is the worst advise to give to a beginner. You just pin pointed the problem: you are scared of a catapult. It is a sort of vicious circle, you get scared, maybe open the sail, upset your asset, as a result you bring your weight forward, get more scared because you start to feel a serious pull forward, and finally unhook to try to bring things sort of in control.

The trick is to commit. Keep your weight back, do not put too much pressure on the fin, do not open the sail, crouch down by bending your knees (no seven position if very overpowered), and things will stay in control. And keep those harness lines loaded: they are your friend!









Robby do this all the time,but I still dont understand why pro wsurfer(best ever) do this..
I never seen that pro wsurfer sail unhooked






Anybody can sail unhooked, in a straight line it is just not efficient, and nobody can sail unhooked for long. Do you want to follow something that Naish says in a video because what he says is gospel? Help yourself. We are all telling you that that suggestion is not such a great idea.




No I just want to say when overpowerd I fell more in control/safer unhooked but for sure you cant sail long like that..
I never say that is good just wonder why Robby do what beginners usualy do...

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
8 Jun 2021 12:05PM
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Select to expand quote
Nubie said..

No I just want to say when overpowerd I fell more in control/safer unhooked but for sure you cant sail long like that..
I never say that is good just wonder why Robby do what beginners usualy do...


Just keep practicing and keep pushing yourself to learn in suitable conditions. Stop overthinking it.

WillyWind
579 posts
8 Jun 2021 1:17PM
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Select to expand quote
Nubie said..

duzzi said..




Nubie said..






sailquik said..








Nubie said..
Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?










No way are you sailing an 8.5m sail in 35Knots of wind unless you are King Kong's big brother! Maybe you meant 35KPH?

What world cup slalom racers do is 90% irrelevant to the average recreational windsurfer, and 100% irrelevant to a "Nubie".









For sure I dont sail in these condition,I survive...This happend only twice when wind pick up
Even with 5.5 I unhook when big gusts come,because I am scared of catapult.
So I wonder why best windusrfer ever do this...







Very few people can windsurf comfortably in real 35 knots of wind. I would need a 3.0 to try. But going back to your question, I would completely disregard what Naish says in the video. First, he is Naish, and second it is the worst advise to give to a beginner. You just pin pointed the problem: you are scared of a catapult. It is a sort of vicious circle, you get scared, maybe open the sail, upset your asset, as a result you bring your weight forward, get more scared because you start to feel a serious pull forward, and finally unhook to try to bring things sort of in control.

The trick is to commit. Keep your weight back, do not put too much pressure on the fin, do not open the sail, crouch down by bending your knees (no seven position if very overpowered), and things will stay in control. And keep those harness lines loaded: they are your friend!





Robby do this all the time,but I still dont understand why pro wsurfer(best ever) do this..
I never seen that pro wsurfer sail unhooked



don't forget that that Robby's video is a "promotional" video. Don't get me wrong, I won't get to his level in a million of years but still, no harness means less mast base pressure and that makes the nose of the board to raise and you start having control problems. Unless I am insanely overpowered, I would not unhook because the whole thing gets unstable. Now, regarding that video, maybe he was too overpowered, or too choppy, or it looked good for the video.

Nubie
70 posts
10 Jun 2021 2:04AM
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Select to expand quote
WillyWind said..

Nubie said..


duzzi said..





Nubie said..







sailquik said..









Nubie said..
Few times I stuck with 8.5 at35knots of wind (85kg)I allways unhook in these conditon to save myself from catapult.
Do you do the same?











No way are you sailing an 8.5m sail in 35Knots of wind unless you are King Kong's big brother! Maybe you meant 35KPH?

What world cup slalom racers do is 90% irrelevant to the average recreational windsurfer, and 100% irrelevant to a "Nubie".










For sure I dont sail in these condition,I survive...This happend only twice when wind pick up
Even with 5.5 I unhook when big gusts come,because I am scared of catapult.
So I wonder why best windusrfer ever do this...








Very few people can windsurf comfortably in real 35 knots of wind. I would need a 3.0 to try. But going back to your question, I would completely disregard what Naish says in the video. First, he is Naish, and second it is the worst advise to give to a beginner. You just pin pointed the problem: you are scared of a catapult. It is a sort of vicious circle, you get scared, maybe open the sail, upset your asset, as a result you bring your weight forward, get more scared because you start to feel a serious pull forward, and finally unhook to try to bring things sort of in control.

The trick is to commit. Keep your weight back, do not put too much pressure on the fin, do not open the sail, crouch down by bending your knees (no seven position if very overpowered), and things will stay in control. And keep those harness lines loaded: they are your friend!






Robby do this all the time,but I still dont understand why pro wsurfer(best ever) do this..
I never seen that pro wsurfer sail unhooked




don't forget that that Robby's video is a "promotional" video. Don't get me wrong, I won't get to his level in a million of years but still, no harness means less mast base pressure and that makes the nose of the board to raise and you start having control problems. Unless I am insanely overpowered, I would not unhook because the whole thing gets unstable. Now, regarding that video, maybe he was too overpowered, or too choppy, or it looked good for the video.


For same body posture,righting moment and mfp are the same in both case(hooked or unhooked)

LeeD
3939 posts
10 Jun 2021 2:31AM
Thumbs Up

Yes.
Racers get out of harness mostly when they are in dirty air or water, behind the leader, and want to get up to full speed.
The alternative is to just stand there, hooked in, stay in dirty air, and watch the leaders slowly pull away.

olskool
QLD, 2459 posts
10 Jun 2021 6:56AM
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Select to expand quote
Nubie said..



WillyWind said..




Nubie said..





duzzi said..








Nubie said






For same body posture,righting moment and mfp are the same in both case(hooked unhooked.)



No MFP will not be same hooked n unhooked.
Hooked in,body weight is transferred thru harness lines to boom to mast to mastfoot to board. =MFP
Unhooked, body weight is on the board with very little MFP.
The nose of board will lift. To lessen this effect hang off boom n pull down as you unhook.
Try to overcome your fear. Rather than unhook as a gust approaches, bend at the knees n prepare for the gust n accelerate away. Yeeeww!

LeeD
3939 posts
10 Jun 2021 5:08AM
Thumbs Up

So, NONE of you who replied ever raced.
Only a racer knows it's necessary to pump and oooch even after planing in in the straps.
Dirty air is the enemy if you're not in the top few spots.

Bigsnut
30 posts
10 Jun 2021 5:32AM
Thumbs Up

I had a chat to robby , he was just clowning around and unhooked ready for a jump to show off.
Ofcourse you stay hooked in racing in slalom . those **** foilers and formulas are abit different in light winds, STAY HOOKED iN you pussies.

LeeD
3939 posts
10 Jun 2021 5:40AM
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ANOTHER windsurfer who has not raced before?

John340
QLD, 3363 posts
10 Jun 2021 10:04AM
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Select to expand quote
olskool said..
Try to overcome your fear. Rather than unhook as a gust approaches, bend at the knees n prepare for the gust n accelerate away. Yeeeww!


Better still, rotate your upper body so you face forward, sit in your harness, straighten your front leg and bend your back leg, that way you translate the gust through your harness, body and front leg into forward acceleration. This also protects you against catapulting



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Forums > Windsurfing   Gps and Speed talk


"Does PWA sailors ever sail unhooked during slalom race?" started by Nubie