going into a 10. sail5

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mathew said..

Francone said..

mathew said..
Francone, can I quote you?

"...perhaps help me to reach the planing threshold" and "Planing is not, by far, my first priority"

Which way is it?

Exactly what I said : by reaching the planing threshold I meant getting close to it, without necessarily getting on the plane, if the condtions ( or my skills) are not there. Nice if I could, of course, but if I am speeding along at speed X knts/hr and I need X + 3 knts /hr to plane, it would still be perfectly O.K. by me...I wouldn't have an existential crisis by being..3 knts/hr away from planing.
As a matter of fact, most of my windsurfing is done subplaning , not even close to planing, but still a lot faster(and more enjoyable) than paddling..
I was only wondering whether by rigging a larger sail, like a 9 or a 10 , I could go faster and perhaps plane. Or maybe I would be confronted with the limits of the board's design, certainly not made for speed and planing, no matter the size of the sail.. It may be a reality.

That response still doesn't make sense -> "... existential crisis by being 3kn/h away from planing". Either you want to plane or not.

However... what you didn't mention in your first post, was that you are using a windSUP. To answer your direct question- yes... you will have more power, but you wont plane any easier (maybe you might get the board going faster another half-knot). Indeed you are hitting the limits of design -> longer waterline, narrow, curved rocker, weight. You will be able to get it to plane, with enough wind.

As others have suggested,at 15kn, 85kg and 8m sail, you just need something like a 130l board. aka:

Yes, but there are different jobs, as well, and planing isn't the only one !
Many people are so bent on planing as the sole dimension of windsurfing, that they cannot conceive of any other way of w.s.

You say I don't make sense because quote " either you want to plane or not". This is a false "either... or" : as much as one may want to plane ( and I would very much like to..) one may also have to consider subplaning as a convenient " plan B", when the planing conditions are not there, either because of the equipment you have or because of the the winds and you don't want to sit on the beach waiting for them...

And you would certainly want to subplane as efficiently and as fast as you can , within the constraints of your board, of the weather and your own skills...This is why I was thinking of a larger sail or a more light winds friendly board.
The problem is that just about all the boards to day are spinned as light winds boards , even when they are ridiculously short and wide, which should be antithetic to light winds because of the drag. There must be a reason why many seasoned sailors are going back to long and narrow longboards.

Please note, too, I didn't say I'd have an ..existential crisis , if I am 5 knts/hr away from the planing threshold .
This may be well be what planing-addicted sailors feel when they cannot plane. In fact I have seen too many of them sitting on the beach in 12, even 15 knts winds, with a ...gloomy face, waiting for the Godsend, while I was still cruising on my Windsup, slowly but still pleasantly. Certainly more pleasant than sitting on the beach.!.

What I did say, quite to contrary, is that I would NOT have such an ..existential crisis (!?) crisis,: if another board ( or the same board with a larger sail) could allow me to subplane at 6 or 7 knts/hr instead of ,..2 or 3, as perhaps my current board, it would be perfectly acceptable to me, even though I may quite far from the planing threshold.

Francone

planing in really light wind is NOT impossible
just need the right combination of things

and some kites fly with a nun's fart

judging by the looks of the water and the dingies lessons, the wind looks to be 10 knots or less to me, it doesn't look he's wrestling with the sail at all. At my local, in 12-15k any one with a 7.5m or bigger is out planing, only those with no light wind slalom/formula gear are sitting it out. when I plan past them sitting on the beach, I like to shout "who's the daddy" !!!

going down the kite route will present a whole new set off issues for you.

For most of us, windsurfing is a planing sport, but there some boards designed to be efficient at planing and slogging, the Exocet Kona being one them. One of the lads recently got a second hand Kona for light winds. He mainly uses it in light winds flat water planning, but he has even used it in light wind waves. It massive, stable and lads of fun (he says).

A Kona might just give you the "best of both worlds" (full planning and efficient slogging) that I think you are looking for!

Just my 2 cents worth

get a raceboard such as starboard phantom, going places from lightwind & good fun to plane on plus you learn many different skills with them.

Formula is just pretty much the course race alternative to slalom, they dont really plane much earlier than a skilled slalom sailor & they are lots of effort. Formula is like riding motorbikes, you WILL crash... big crash

The mistral prodigy someone posted were a pretty good thing when they came out, years ago I did sail with one a few times when I was on formula & he definitely was having a better time, I wouldnt mind buying one but they are rare here.

Kites... yeah great when there is wind, in light winds they just dont fly or struggle to hold position, here on 10-12 knot days the kites arent on water earlier than slalom sailors but they do get a little bit of a benefit where the wind holds up a bit higher due to 4 islands upwind of our sailing spot so sometimes the kites get wind but we dont. Lots of reading on sb re lightwind kites such as this...
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/Newbies-Tips-Tricks/Is-it-worth-getting-a-light-wind-kite?page=1

I do like the starboard freeride sup in lightwind, it moves & it goes wherever I want but I think I would get bored if I sailed it all the time. This is not saying the board is boring at all as it is great fun but just what I am chasing in windsurfing. Formula lightwind again once the novelty wore off it didnt really appeal but raceboard has a huge technical perspective to keep it appealing, if I wasnt a heavy weight I would definitely have a phantom 377 for light winds.

But according to the industry maybe you should be on a naish foil

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Francone said..

joe windsurf said..
planing in really light wind is NOT impossible
just need the right combination of things

and some kites fly with a nun's fart

Joe,

the 1st video ( Formula) is awesome, but judging from the pull and shape of the sail( you can see the sailor wrestling with it, at times) , it looks like the winds are not that light, probably around 15-18 knts which is more than our typical winds here, but then in those winds even my Windsup would run well.

The board looks like a SB ( either a US or an Isonic). I can't make out the size of the sail, but it may be a large one. Some Formula's use even 12 m2 sails..

AS to the .nun's fart, it would be interesting to know what diet they follow in the convent.May be I should spend some time in the cloister to find out, even though, I surmise, it may not be as uplifting as a few day's retreat at Hugh Hefner's mansion..

Jesting apart, I'm still toying with the idea of kiting ( possibly from my SUP). It may be cheaper, altogether, to buy a kite, rather than another GOOD board and/or sail.
What dampens my enthusiasm is that there are practically no wide open beaches around here to practice and eventually launch the kite, aside from Oka, which is too far to drive to more than occasionally. I'd also have to take instruction.. I

I'll put everything in the back burner, keep asking around, search the Internet, until a decision pops up, I'm sure by spring, because I definitely have to do something..

Francone

Francone,

I have following your quest here & on the iWindsurf forum. I really think you just need a real windsurfing longboard. You don't need a Phantom or the latest equivalent. The thing about the wide & short boards is that they are designed for planing & they CAN plane in the winds you sail in. However they require power(big sail), GOOD technique, & some athletic ability. The longboards on the other hand will subplane much quicker & GLIDE up onto a plane with less power & effort. The problem with your WindSup is that it has too much rocker & round rails. Especially the rocker will slow the board down - even in subplaning mode. If you can used to a Raceboard it will move much faster with your existing rig & will plane quicker than your WindSup when conditions allow. The rockered hull of that WindSup pushes allot more water & thus creates more drag. You can put more sail up & you will go faster but it will be much more taxing physically. If the Raceboard is just too tippy for you then try to find something wider but nearly as long that is a dedicated windsurfing board. The Kona would be great if you could find one in your price range.