Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..
The elephant in the room is the blue bit. Get rid of that and most of the red bit will go too. The rest will be needed for recovery time.
Solved.
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..
^^ ^ Sue,
Morgan, Jeff and their friends were not lucky, they created this group of Improvers last season by putting themselves out there. They used Seabreeze to create a chronicle of their progression and connect with new like minded sailors, sharing the joys and frustrations of progressing in this sport. They meet regularly and many of them are currently camping at Lake Cootharibah this week. This has become a regular event each school holidays. They are an excellent example of what is possible.
On a good day in SE Qld, we have windsurfers sailing at up to 10 locations from Hervey Bay to the Gold Coast, supported by 4 active sailing / windsurfing clubs, 6 active teams in the GPS Team Challenge and 4 windsurfing retail outlets. I got back into windsurfing in 2010 and I believe its popularity in SE Qld has increased over that time.
Agree should have qualified that..Good on them!
Select to expand quoteJonesySail said..
...but it think we all agree the 'planning' level is where the best fun is at.
Yep. I tried the SUP thing. Once. Yawn. If I'm going to paddle I'll get a kayak. And who wants to paddle?
Select to expand quoteevlPanda said..JonesySail said..
...but it think we all agree the 'planning' level is where the best fun is at.
Yep. I tried the SUP thing. Once. Yawn. If I'm going to paddle I'll get a kayak. And who wants to paddle?
The only time I liked being on a SUP is when I put a wave sail on it...
It's hard, and too condition dependant. And let's be honest, light wind windsurfing (longboards) is basically flat water SUPing, but harder, without the fitness benefits, more expensive gear wise, and doesn't have the social factor of paddling around talking trash with your mates.
If I hadn't had learnt to windsurf during uni, when I had plenty of time up my sleeve I'd never have bothered. Hard to see many people once they hit the 8-5 working grind putting the effort into learning to windsurf. That being said, the people that stick to it seem to love it for the challenge, and if you can get kids into it whilst they got all the time to learn, those windy days are worth it.
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..And let's be honest, light wind windsurfing (longboards) is basically flat water SUPing, but harder, without the fitness benefits, more expensive gear wise, and doesn't have the social factor of paddling around talking trash with your mates.
Those of us who love longboards ARE honest and we DON'T think it's like SUPping. Light wind longboarding can be just gentle cruising, it can be testing in technique and tactics if you race or do freestyle. In other conditions longboards can offer a fantastic form of sailing that is both very technically challenging and gives you some fantastic experiences as well as giving you a different sort of freedom that you can't get going BAF.
OK, so you don't like it, fair enough. But the fact that you don't get it doesn't mean that it's not a great way to enjoy yourself.
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..
^^ ^ Sue,
Morgan, Jeff and their friends were not lucky, they created this group of Improvers last season by putting themselves out there. They used Seabreeze to create a chronicle of their progression and connect with new like minded sailors, sharing the joys and frustrations of progressing in this sport. They meet regularly and many of them are currently camping at Lake Cootharibah this week. This has become a regular event each school holidays. They are an excellent example of what is possible.
On a good day in SE Qld, we have windsurfers sailing at up to 10 locations from Hervey Bay to the Gold Coast, supported by 4 active sailing / windsurfing clubs, 6 active teams in the GPS Team Challenge and 4 windsurfing retail outlets. I got back into windsurfing in 2010 and I believe its popularity in SE Qld has increased over that time.
That's great stuff! Congrats to all involved.
It's not really that difficult to build the sport, but it does take the time of dedicated people.
Interesting read.
I decided this summer I will tackle windsurfing after buying a surfboard and realising that in Perth the surf is scarce but wind is plentiful. I'm paid up for a couple days of lessons and I'm collecting gear, piecing together what I hope is a usable kit. Limited knowledge and no experience makes it hard though.
I've done scuba, kayaking, mtbing and road riding, adventure races and dabbled in other various stuff. None of them have kept my attention so here's hoping in a few years I'll still be into it.
Wish the newby luck I guess, and please don't laugh at my newby questions.
If your up for a challenge then windsufing is for you Cammos goodluck dude and you will never look back!
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Those of us who love longboards ARE honest and we DON'T think it's like SUPping. Light wind longboarding can be just gentle cruising, it can be testing in technique and tactics if you race or do freestyle. In other conditions longboards can offer a fantastic form of sailing that is both very technically challenging and gives you some fantastic experiences as well as giving you a different sort of freedom that you can't get going BAF.
OK, so you don't like it, fair enough. But the fact that you don't get it doesn't mean that it's not a great way to enjoy yourself.
Actually, I personally don't mind longboards and light wind freestyle etc. I'd never bother actually buying a longboard, tho I did borrow one when I was learning, but I float around light wind days on my freestyle board. Just pointing out that despite some people insisting that windsurfing is feasible in light winds, it just doesn't cut it compared to the alternatives, especially for people new to the sport. Once you learn to windsurf, light wind is just another way to enjoy the sport, tho most choose not to.
What always interests me is why when I'm out windsurfing I always see big fleets of lasers and other small boats racing in the bay. Surely they are boring compared to windsurfing, and more expensive and bulky to have to store etc.
You never spoke a truer word swooshie. Apart from the fact that they are also awesome in strong winds. 
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..
Chris 249 said..
Those of us who love longboards ARE honest and we DON'T think it's like SUPping. Light wind longboarding can be just gentle cruising, it can be testing in technique and tactics if you race or do freestyle. In other conditions longboards can offer a fantastic form of sailing that is both very technically challenging and gives you some fantastic experiences as well as giving you a different sort of freedom that you can't get going BAF.
OK, so you don't like it, fair enough. But the fact that you don't get it doesn't mean that it's not a great way to enjoy yourself.
Actually, I personally don't mind longboards and light wind freestyle etc. I'd never bother actually buying a longboard, tho I did borrow one when I was learning, but I float around light wind days on my freestyle board. Just pointing out that despite some people insisting that windsurfing is feasible in light winds, it just doesn't cut it compared to the alternatives, especially for people new to the sport. Once you learn to windsurf, light wind is just another way to enjoy the sport, tho most choose not to.
What always interests me is why when I'm out windsurfing I always see big fleets of lasers and other small boats racing in the bay. Surely they are boring compared to windsurfing, and more expensive and bulky to have to store etc.
If you've never used a longboard since you are a beginner, how do you know that they are no better than a SUP when sailed properly? And what longboards did you use as a beginner? In performance terms you can't compare the typical board a beginner uses, and the way they sail them, with a well-sailed performance longboard.
A freestyle board is probably about as good in light winds as a One Design is for willy skippers in 30 knots, so it's not surprising that you don't think light winds cut it. If you're using the wrong tool for the conditions then of course it won't feel good.
And why assume that Laser etc are boring compared to windsurfing? There are lots of sailors who have tried both and CHOOSE to sail dinghies instead of saving money and sailing windsurfers. They do it because they find dinghy sailing more fun, and they are not stupid. To be honest in the typical breezy day there is much more of a handling challenge in racing a Laser than there is in the sort of windsurfing most people enjoy. There are good reasons why so many people choose to sail Lasers and other dinghies - maybe we could learn from them rather than assume that they are boring?
A lot of dinghies are probably cheaper than windsurfers to run; depreciation is low and you can use them a lot, so the dollars spent per hour sailing ratio is great. As you say, though, small boats are more bulky than windsurfers, which does indicate that the bulkiness of boards isn't a huge issue. SUPs also show that people will happily buy and use big kit.
As far as I can see, the attitude that people can tell others what sort of windsurfing they should do, or that one area of the sport really isn't fun, is the real reason why windsurfing is not a much bigger sport. People get pushed towards a pretty narrow area of the sport, an area that (as so many people here have said) is very difficult and you can only do in pretty rare conditions. There is no attitude of "do what you want and enjoy it" but an attitude of "do what I reckon you should do".
Windsurfing:
it is "THE sport" as I love windsurfing, but that's just my opinion.
SUPing:
I have 2. Great no wind fun paddling with my wife or I stick a 5m sail on mine (I have the ones you can screw a mast base on) in winds too light for my 111L Falcon and 7.8m to practice light wind freestyle, sail handling, flare gybes etc. Great fun and has definitely improved my overall sailing for when the wind comes in.
Short board, long board, SUP, Free ride, freestyle, slalom, wave sailing, as long as people are getting out there and having fun .....
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Bit confused about your response here, I basically completely agree with you on all points. Just pointing out the reasons that for the average punter, windsurfing isn't "THE Sport".
I sailed dinghy's as a kid, and actually wish I had stuck to it. My comment about lasers being boring was exactly to point out what you are saying in that it doesn't have to be high performance to have a good following and be a heap of fun. And the best thing about laser formula is the equipment has stayed the same, it's all about sailers, and any idiot can basically jump in and make it around a course. In my opinion windsurfing needs a similar format one design class. The gear needs to be cheap enough <$2000 so that any half interested windsurfer would go say sure why not I'll grab a kit. I agree with what someone else mentioned earlier in that longboards are the go, but not $3000+ boards. We need Roto-Molded polyethylene longboards, with fibreglass masts and dacron sails, can bash around the marks with your mates and not worry about a few bumps. Go back to the roots of the sport, with equipment that people of any skill level can sail, and durable and cheap enough you don't mind people of any skill level borrowing your kit.
Yeah sure the one design class has existed a few times already in windsurfing, but at least with RS:X it just seems too complicated and expensive.
As for slalom/formula, as a racing class they seem a little bit doomed, bit too condition dependant, and it's a never ending high-tech arms race driven by the manufacturers with a +$10k/season buy in cost. For the same price you can buy a laser which boasts a bigger more competitive field, and your gear doesn't go out of date every season. The GPS racing thing was probably the best thing that has happened to slalom style gear.
The current state of the longboard racing side of things just seems confusing to me. e.g. upcoming raceboard titles, there is 3 different classes and a myriad of different boards. A new setup from what I understand probably north of >$6k, and there are 3 different classes, in a sport where the typical field across all classes might be <10 sailers. Sure I could pick up a old second hand one design something, but seems pointless to race something out of date in a hodgepodge field of competitors that I could probably count in one hand.Select to expand quoteda vecta said..
RETRO BOARD: Competitor entering with a board manufactured 1995 or earlier;
HYBRID CLASS ONE: Allows boards up to 3m in length with a maximum sail size of 7.8m. (Includes: Techno 293, RSOne, RSX, Phantom 295)
HYBRID CLASS TWO: Allows boards over 3m in length with a maximum sail size of 7.8m. (Includes: Phantom 320, Kona One, WOD) Both Hyrid Classes will have a shorter course.
That's just the opinion of a recreational windsurfer, who loves windsurfing, but honestly, it was a big commitment to learn. And as much as I'd like to start racing, and I think a good racing community would really help build the sport, none of the options really look attractive.
p.s. the guys who are trying to grow the sport from the ground, at least here in QLD, are doing a fantastic job. I just talked a few friends into it and took my misses down to the learn to windsurf thing the guys at RQYS are doing, and it's the best thing that's happening in the sport in my opinion. But for me it also highlights the problem, in that the learners are on these big plastic boards, and the racers show up with these flash $3k+ carbon boards, not to mention rig cost! Contrast that to lasers, and well you can learn to sail on a laser.
I think the moment you get planing you're hooked. If more people could get planing quicker, there's be more people windsurfing. Its a drug for sure.
Select to expand quoteswoosh said..
Chris 249 said..
Bit confused about your response here, I basically completely agree with you on all points. Just pointing out the reasons that for the average punter, windsurfing isn't "THE Sport".
I sailed dinghy's as a kid, and actually wish I had stuck to it. My comment about lasers being boring was exactly to point out what you are saying in that it doesn't have to be high performance to have a good following and be a heap of fun. And the best thing about laser formula is the equipment has stayed the same, it's all about sailers, and any idiot can basically jump in and make it around a course. In my opinion windsurfing needs a similar format one design class. The gear needs to be cheap enough <$2000 so that any half interested windsurfer would go say sure why not I'll grab a kit. I agree with what someone else mentioned earlier in that longboards are the go, but not $3000+ boards. We need Roto-Molded polyethylene longboards, with fibreglass masts and dacron sails, can bash around the marks with your mates and not worry about a few bumps. Go back to the roots of the sport, with equipment that people of any skill level can sail, and durable and cheap enough you don't mind people of any skill level borrowing your kit.
Yeah sure the one design class has existed a few times already in windsurfing, but at least with RS:X it just seems too complicated and expensive.
As for slalom/formula, as a racing class they seem a little bit doomed, bit too condition dependant, and it's a never ending high-tech arms race driven by the manufacturers with a +$10k/season buy in cost. For the same price you can buy a laser which boasts a bigger more competitive field, and your gear doesn't go out of date every season. The GPS racing thing was probably the best thing that has happened to slalom style gear.
The current state of the longboard racing side of things just seems confusing to me. e.g. upcoming raceboard titles, there is 3 different classes and a myriad of different boards. A new setup from what I understand probably north of >$6k, and there are 3 different classes, in a sport where the typical field across all classes might be <10 sailers. Sure I could pick up a old second hand one design something, but seems pointless to race something out of date in a hodgepodge field of competitors that I could probably count in one hand.
da vecta said..
RETRO BOARD: Competitor entering with a board manufactured 1995 or earlier;
HYBRID CLASS ONE: Allows boards up to 3m in length with a maximum sail size of 7.8m. (Includes: Techno 293, RSOne, RSX, Phantom 295)
HYBRID CLASS TWO: Allows boards over 3m in length with a maximum sail size of 7.8m. (Includes: Phantom 320, Kona One, WOD) Both Hyrid Classes will have a shorter course.
That's just the opinion of a recreational windsurfer, who loves windsurfing, but honestly, it was a big commitment to learn. And as much as I'd like to start racing, and I think a good racing community would really help build the sport, none of the options really look attractive.
p.s. the guys who are trying to grow the sport from the ground, at least here in QLD, are doing a fantastic job. I just talked a few friends into it and took my misses down to the learn to windsurf thing the guys at RQYS are doing, and it's the best thing that's happening in the sport in my opinion. But for me it also highlights the problem, in that the learners are on these big plastic boards, and the racers show up with these flash $3k+ carbon boards, not to mention rig cost! Contrast that to lasers, and well you can learn to sail on a laser.
As one of the guys organising the up coming raceboard nationals and also running the learn to windsurf at RQ thought I would try to explain what we have attempted to do because I agree it could look confusing to a recreational windsurfer.
First I don't agree cost is the major barrier to the sport, a laser is what 10k and its a pretty cheap sailing class, many of the other off the beach classes get more expensive from there and then if we start to consider other pastimes, such as motorbikes, fishing boats, horses etc etc people are prepared to spend money on what they want to do
Also there is a cheap one design class under 2k, Windsurfer One Design and there are guys racing them all over the country.
Second RSX with one board and one rig cant really get much simpler, same for all one design classes and although I agree RSX is expensive in fairness to Neil Pryde they have to supply free gear to the big regattas as part of there Olympic obligations so that cost is built into the gear and its still the cheapest Olympic Class
Raceboard and formula and slalom I guess as well are all "box rule" therefore allow for different manufacturers to produce equipment within a defined set of rules, there are arguments both for and against one design vs box rule but that could be a whole other thread.
Last year with the Raceboard nationals it was only open to Raceboards but that covers a lot of boards including techno, rsx, rsone etc etc due to the "box rule" nature of the class rules ie not one design, we added some extra divisions this year to give people an option to participate in the regatta and have races within the race because it would be unlikley for say a techno or rs one to beat a phantom 377 even though they are all class legal race boards. So instead of trying to split the field among different divisions we are trying to give people an opportunity to participate in a regatta that they otherwise would be unlikely or unable to enter and enjoy competitive racing within a division that suits the gear they have. I know it seems confusing and seems like we are splitting an already limited field but the intention is to increase participation if possible.
Regarding the learn to windsurf at RQ, the boards we are teaching on are RSX and techno's so really just like lasers the gear they are learning on is the same gear that would take them to an Olympics or a youth world championships, or at the least that is true of the boards the sails are obviously not the same. As for the racers on the flash 3k+ boards I don't see any difference between that and a laser rigging up next to a 49er, it may well intimidate some people but it may inspire others to aspire to racing the "flash" gear
PS thanks for telling your mates about it, they keep coming down and bringing more mates and all seem to be having a great time I'm not sure how many we had in Saturday but every piece of kit we had was out on the water and the vice commodore dropped by to check it out and the amount of people on the water increased his urgency to get the windsurfing storage built asap so we can use the extra gear.
As to why isn't windsurfing THE sport I think there are factors that make it difficult to enter the sport, ie mainly the learning curve requires a degree of persistence and opportunities to learn are limited. A common theme among our participants are the barriers ie the cost of commercial lessons are high and the time it takes to become independent makes it to hard for many. One of the aims at RQ was to reduce those barriers to entry which I think we have done but that would be difficult outside a sailing club, we have access to reception staff to take bookings, maintained safety boats we just grab off the pontoon already fuelled ready to go, toilets, showers, a cafe, the club is now building a windsurfing facility to store sails already rigged and boards in racks 20 feet from the beach, insurance coverage and recognised instructor qualifications etc etc all really good stuff that makes it easy to roll up and just concentrate on teaching people and pack up and go home. In other words infrastructure that windsurfing is to small to fund on its own, but as part of a sailing club everything we need is already there.
The upside for the club is the windsurfing activities are generating additional activity at the club with increased memberships and visitors and at the of the day RQ, Yaching Qld and Yachting Australia are very interested and prepared to invest in activities that increase participation in sailing and as windsurfers I think we have a lot to offer to the sport of sailing
Also many people come along and enjoy the day but that doesn't mean they go out and buy one, everytime I race go karts I have a ball but never once have I thought about making go kart racing my sport, I think we just keep giving people the opportunity to try the sport and a percentage will stick the rest will move on, the important thing is to keep providing that opportunity.
Hey Cammed, I learnt to Windsurf some 30 years ago and can remember thinking how much of a "technology arms race" it was back then. Thanks for explaining some of the finer points to us. Its great to see such enthusiastic people in our sport. I'm not necessarily into competitions but I love getting out on the weekend trying to better myself and I think that is what windsurfing is all about. Keep up the good work encouraging people into "The Sport".
Select to expand quoteloftsofwind said..
People have seen the light and switched to Kiteboarding ;))
Ever looked at the demographic. They're all middle aged men. It's a mid-life crisis sport.
Select to expand quoteSputnik11 said..
loftsofwind said..
People have seen the light and switched to Kiteboarding ;))
Ever looked at the demographic. They're all middle aged or old men who use to windsurf in the 70's when it was "The Sport" . It's a mid-life crisis sport.
Select to expand quoteSputnik11 said..loftsofwind said..
People have seen the light and switched to Kiteboarding ;))
Ever looked at the demographic. They're all middle aged men. It's a mid-life crisis sport.
I'm thoroughly enjoying my mid life crisis
Does some one want to say what "The sport " is . As far as i can tell the closest most people get to sport is watching it while they drink beer or if they get creative and call fishing a sport either way it involves sitting down and drinking.
^^ I think what the O.P means is - if it is awesome and we live in the best place in the world for it, then why is windsurfing not like footy or netball.
You could ask the same question about kiting.
Participation rates are unexplainably small IMO. Even considering that obviously the others require little equipment and cost etc and we are wind dependent, that does not explain why sooo many people surf when it is also dependent upon weather (and in say Perth it is fkd for 6mths of the year at least) why do we not have as many windsport people as surfers?
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
^^ I think what the O.P means is - if it is awesome and we live in the best place in the world for it, then why is windsurfing not like footy or netball.
You could ask the same question about kiting.
Participation rates are unexplainably small IMO. Even considering that obviously the others require little equipment and cost etc and we are wind dependent, that does not explain why sooo many people surf when it is also dependent upon weather (and in say Perth it is fkd for 6mths of the year at least) why do we not have as many windsport people as surfers?
Surfing is a really interesting comparison because it is so popular for people of all ages.
- Mark is right, surfing too has many things that make it difficult to learn.
......the right conditions, getting to a decent break suitable for your level, the hassle of getting a wave amongst other surfers and then when you fall in (after what may amount to a 10 second ride) you have to paddle back out, hassle for another wave just to have another crack to progress some more....
- yet despite all of this, it has a high participation rate and 'cool' factor that appeals to the youth element.
I think the latter is because surfing has always been considered cool, a typically Aussie thing to do, and lots of kids who grow up mucking around on skateboards are keen to give it a crack.
Personally, I'm glad windsurfing isn't as popular and crowded as surfing.
Select to expand quoteBondalucci said..Mark _australia said..
^^ I think what the O.P means is - if it is awesome and we live in the best place in the world for it, then why is windsurfing not like footy or netball.
You could ask the same question about kiting.
Participation rates are unexplainably small IMO. Even considering that obviously the others require little equipment and cost etc and we are wind dependent, that does not explain why sooo many people surf when it is also dependent upon weather (and in say Perth it is fkd for 6mths of the year at least) why do we not have as many windsport people as surfers?
Personally, I'm glad windsurfing isn't as popular and crowded as surfing.
Try some of the better breaks in WA on a decent weekend... 
but if all I can complain about is congestion I am happy 
But really I am still confused as to how windsurfing seemed to make it to the top 5 sports in some euro countries and here we have a pic of a bloke in 1982 jumping a board 2ft high on the tourism brochure. Weird.
Select to expand quoteBondalucci said..
Surfing is a really interesting comparison because it is so popular for people of all ages.
- Mark is right, surfing too has many things that make it difficult to learn.
......the right conditions, getting to a decent break suitable for your level, the hassle of getting a wave amongst other surfers and then when you fall in (after what may amount to a 10 second ride) you have to paddle back out, hassle for another wave just to have another crack to progress some more....
- yet despite all of this, it has a high participation rate and 'cool' factor that appeals to the youth element.
I think the latter is because surfing has always been considered cool, a typically Aussie thing to do, and lots of kids who grow up mucking around on skateboards are keen to give it a crack.
Personally, I'm glad windsurfing isn't as popular and crowded as surfing.
I know little about surfing, but from what I've heard, it's like golf - hardly anyone is good, so the expectations are low. Windsurfing - there is a huge difference between a beginner struggling to uphaul in strong wind, while the next guy is blasting along, planing out of gybes.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
But really I am still confused as to how windsurfing seemed to make it to the top 5 sports in some euro countries and here we have a pic of a bloke in 1982 jumping a board 2ft high on the tourism brochure. Weird.
Windsurfing resorts right on the water.
but if all I can complain about is congestion I am happy 
