Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
out of interest, over the past 3 years the only times (there has been a couple) people have wanted to try my kit at the beach has been when i'm on the LT.
never happens with the shortboard kit.
Because it looks achievable.
I really don't get the responses here.
Like Formula1 - the PWA is concerned with being the pinnacle. It does not primarily exist to increase numbers of people windsurfing, and I feel they mentioned that as an aside to the other aims. People are picking up on that one phrase and having a sook about grassroots participation. No.
Increased participation is what all the state and national associations do. Its what people like PVB are doing with a wave slalom event. Or what the LT has done.
Increased engagement overall is what the PWA can do (more watchers, better sponsors.)
Why are folks bagging them out for trying to make the PWA better and thereby maybe help windsurfing as a whole?
I think for the PWA as an international body to specifically seek (for example) a marketing person who windsurfs and an event manager who windsurfs and an accountant who used to windsurf and has done high level work for, I dunno the FIA or the NBA etc, is a very wise approach. You don't know if you don't ask, and why employ a top professional when you can have the same skill set AND passion for the sport. That's all they're doing.
I have seen how engaging an expert who didn't really get the specifics of windsurfing or the vibe made a bloody big mess as it wasn't like running a marathon or canoe race. Also seen how really enthusiastic volunteers can make something great and lose it due to not understanding the governance required with lots of public funds.
So good stuff Jane and the PWA for asking passionate professionals to apply - not just advertise for a knobhead in a suit who can claim to have worked for other sporting organisations and won't give two hoots for OUR sport or the pro's livelihoods.
Select to expand quotesheddweller said..Gestalt said..
out of interest, over the past 3 years the only times (there has been a couple) people have wanted to try my kit at the beach has been when i'm on the LT.
never happens with the shortboard kit.
Because it looks achievable.
Could be. Could be nostalgia, looks colourful maybe, simple to use. Not sure
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
I really don't get the responses here.
Like Formula1 - the PWA is concerned with being the pinnacle. It does not primarily exist to increase numbers of people windsurfing, and I feel they mentioned that as an aside to the other aims. People are picking up on that one phrase and having a sook about grassroots participation. No.
Increased participation is what all the state and national associations do. Its what people like PVB are doing with a wave slalom event. Or what the LT has done.
Increased engagement overall is what the PWA can do (more watchers, better sponsors.)
Why are folks bagging them out for trying to make the PWA better and thereby maybe help windsurfing as a whole?
Windsurfing is not Motorsport.
You cannot be a pinnacle if you have no pyramid.
The professional windsurfers association is concerned with it's members getting paid.
They are not getting paid.
They are not getting paid cos there is no money.
If they want paying then they need to find ways of doing so. Relying on other people to increase participation is not working out.
The first thing on every pwa meeting should be how can we increase revenue.
My overriding point is that increased participation in the sport will lead to more money and thus is in the direct interest of the professional windsurfers and industry partners of the PWA.
It is too important to leave to other people, these after all are the professionals.
Well said Mark, fully agree!Select to expand quotesheddweller said..
The professional windsurfers association is concerned with it's members getting paid.
They are not getting paid.
They are not getting paid cos there is no money.
Is this even true? Source? Are you a member?
imagine a PWA-UFC merger with a distinct focus on promoting more accessible gear
thank you for considering my application, hope to hear from you soon
Select to expand quotesheddweller said..Mark _australia said..
I really don't get the responses here.
Like Formula1 - the PWA is concerned with being the pinnacle. It does not primarily exist to increase numbers of people windsurfing, and I feel they mentioned that as an aside to the other aims. People are picking up on that one phrase and having a sook about grassroots participation. No.
Increased participation is what all the state and national associations do. Its what people like PVB are doing with a wave slalom event. Or what the LT has done.
Increased engagement overall is what the PWA can do (more watchers, better sponsors.)
Why are folks bagging them out for trying to make the PWA better and thereby maybe help windsurfing as a whole?
Windsurfing is not Motorsport.
You cannot be a pinnacle if you have no pyramid.
The professional windsurfers association is concerned with it's members getting paid.
They are not getting paid.
They are not getting paid cos there is no money.
If they want paying then they need to find ways of doing so. Relying on other people to increase participation is not working out.
The first thing on every pwa meeting should be how can we increase revenue.
My overriding point is that increased participation in the sport will lead to more money and thus is in the direct interest of the professional windsurfers and industry partners of the PWA.
It is too important to leave to other people, these after all are the professionals.
Give Greg Norman a call or catch up with him at the Adelaide LIV tournament, I'm sure his bosses would have a few billion in change in their car ash tray. That's what the sports needs, maybe sponsorship from betting companies or Columbian coke manufacturers?, the pros could move alot of product in their board bags.
Select to expand quotecurac said..sheddweller said..ptsf1111 said..Chris 249 said..
... part of the problem is the very reason that the PWA chooses that sort of photograph.
Can you elaborate? What is the issue with the photos or the relationship with PWA "problems"?
I'll give it a go.
"Professional " windsurfing dissapeared up it's own arse some time ago.
The continually more extreme, faster higher bigger waves more technical imagery and emphasis by the pwa and it's industry partners is directly responsible for the low participation rates in the sport.
The problem now is that those still windsurfing are the self selecting group that respond and responded to what windsurfing is now. We are at the limit of those people. If you want more participation you need a fundamental change in emphasis.
To be fair to the pwa at least they are asking for help. It remains to be seen if they will listen to the answers
that's dumb
Why? And on what basis do you say it's dumb? Have you done historical analysis, read studies about what motivates people to take up sports, run a windsurfing class or club, participated in the PWA or its predecessor, etc etc etc?
Select to expand quoteptsf1111 said..
I can see where you're coming from but I think windsurfing is an extreme sport so imo it makes sense. Look at the Red Bull air races, even more extreme footage for promotion and those events are packed with people so I'm not sure if the photos would turn people off from visiting events. Guess that is important for PWA and to less extent how many people take on the sport. Might look pretty lame if they imaginary with beginner sailors for a pro event. That said, it can have both where in the days before the pro event, local beginners and hobby sailors can participate in events, fun races, teaching/coaching etc. That could have the both of best worlds.
I personally like that we're pushing the boundaries and the more extreme the better. See how exciting the foil slalom can be compared to fin slalom. I love wave sailing but watching it there's not a lot of action.
The Red Bull air races are a good analogy, perhaps - people watch them but almost no one does air racing. So as a format to get people interested in doing a sport, they are a failure.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
I guess the suggestion is the PWA should have average Joes, everyone on secondhand gear, and a ribbon for every participant saying "I ran a race"
Nope, no one said anything like that.
The redbull air race doesnt aim to get more people into flying
So why do we think the PWA should be doing anything other than the peak comps for the best
Chris my first post was as ppl seemed to be having a crack at the PWA but not saying what they should do different. I am curious
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..curac said..sheddweller said..ptsf1111 said..Chris 249 said..
... part of the problem is the very reason that the PWA chooses that sort of photograph.
Can you elaborate? What is the issue with the photos or the relationship with PWA "problems"?
I'll give it a go.
"Professional " windsurfing dissapeared up it's own arse some time ago.
The continually more extreme, faster higher bigger waves more technical imagery and emphasis by the pwa and it's industry partners is directly responsible for the low participation rates in the sport.
The problem now is that those still windsurfing are the self selecting group that respond and responded to what windsurfing is now. We are at the limit of those people. If you want more participation you need a fundamental change in emphasis.
To be fair to the pwa at least they are asking for help. It remains to be seen if they will listen to the answers
that's dumb
Why? And on what basis do you say it's dumb? Have you done historical analysis, read studies about what motivates people to take up sports, run a windsurfing class or club, participated in the PWA or its predecessor, etc etc etc?
Like Mark pretty much said above, blaming an association which by its very nature has nothing to do with providing "grass roots" entry into the sport for the low participation levels is dumb.
PWA windsurfers are people who have devoted themselves to being the very best at what they do. Should they dumb down the moves/slow down the race speeds because someone might see the images and think "that looks hard, windsurfings not for me."?
Some might look at the images and think the above. Others will look at the images and think "i want to be able to do that" probably those that have already chosen to get into windsurfing.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
The redbull air race doesnt aim to get more people into flying
So why do we think the PWA should be doing anything other than the peak comps for the best
Chris my first post was as ppl seemed to be having a crack at the PWA but not saying what they should do different. I am curious
The PWA's press release was very clearly talking about windsurfing as a whole; they were talking about "the the Global Sport of Windsurfing...." and not just the pro level.
The promotion of windsurfing as ONLY an extreme sport - as in the PWA's photos - has been seen to be a major problem for windsurfing by people like Professor Ben Oakley (former pro, Olympic coach, professor of sports), Svein Rasmussen from Starboard, Bruce Wylie (watersports (IIRC) manager of the biggest board builder, Cobra) Robby Naish, the New York Times, etc. As a formerly infamous windsurfer turned kiter said "in the beginning everyone could windsurf. By the end, nobody could". The problems caused by windsurfing's excessive (and almost exclusive) promotion of the extreme end have also been noted by people like the president of one of the world's biggest yacht companies, the guy who created the modern and enormously popular plastic sit-on-top kayaks, etc.
So when the PWA talks about solving the issues of windsurfing as a global sport, it should look at the problems of ONLY promoting the "extreme" ends of the sport.
For people to imply that there is no alternative between the PWA approach and the approach of promoting "average Joes, everyone on secondhand gear, and a ribbon for every participant saying "I ran a race"" is just ridiculous, I have to say. The sports that are really big are generally those where the pros do what Average Joe CAN do (or think they can do) but where the pros do it far better.
To use one parallel, the Tour de France is run on bikes that are about 60% as fast as the world's fastest bicycles, and they don't do loops on them, they don't do freestyle on them, and they don't do anything really "extreme" on them. Despite that, the Tour has more live spectators (and about as many TV spectators) than any other event, and cycling is a huge PARTICIPATION sport.
The roadies don't promote this;
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..Chris 249 said..curac said..sheddweller said..ptsf1111 said..Chris 249 said..
... part of the problem is the very reason that the PWA chooses that sort of photograph.
Can you elaborate? What is the issue with the photos or the relationship with PWA "problems"?
I'll give it a go.
"Professional " windsurfing dissapeared up it's own arse some time ago.
The continually more extreme, faster higher bigger waves more technical imagery and emphasis by the pwa and it's industry partners is directly responsible for the low participation rates in the sport.
The problem now is that those still windsurfing are the self selecting group that respond and responded to what windsurfing is now. We are at the limit of those people. If you want more participation you need a fundamental change in emphasis.
To be fair to the pwa at least they are asking for help. It remains to be seen if they will listen to the answers
that's dumb
Why? And on what basis do you say it's dumb? Have you done historical analysis, read studies about what motivates people to take up sports, run a windsurfing class or club, participated in the PWA or its predecessor, etc etc etc?
Like Mark pretty much said above, blaming an association which by its very nature has into the sport for the low participation levels is dumb.
PWA windsurfers are people who have devoted themselves to being the very best at what they do. Should they dumb down the moves/slow down the race speeds because someone might see the images and think "that looks hard, windsurfings not for me."?
Some might look at the images and think the above. Others will look at the images and think "i want to be able to do that" probably those that have already chosen to get into windsurfing.
Completely and utterly wrong. The PWA itself states that it is intended to "help promote grass roots growth, strengthen the bonds of friendship between existing associations, classes and disciplines of windsurfing and to provide support and services for all windsurfers."
An association that claims itself that it is there to "promote grass roots" and "provide support and services for ALL windsurfers" clearly cannot be said to an association that has "nothing to do with providing "grass roots" entry". The PWA ITSELF SAYS IT IS THERE TO HELP PROMOTE GRASS ROOTS GROWTH. So don't tell me it's dumb to say it shouild do what it says it does itself. If you can't be bothered to look at what an association itself says it does then don't throw insults at those of us who actually do our homework.
The images clearly don't work well to get people into windsurfing because the sport is far smaller than it was, and people like the head of the biggest brand, the head of the biggest manufacturer and windsurfers with independent expertise in related areas have noted that promoting only one side of the sport is a major part of the problem.
The factors that influence a sport's popularity include the level of publicity, the type of publicity, the design of the equipment, the emphasis of the development, leisure time, geography, storage, demographics, the governing bodies and many other factors. It's an extremely complex area. To say that someone who has never studied these factors and their effect on participation levels is such an expert that they can insult people with a different angle is just dumb.
Oh, and the top athletes in every profession are people who have devoted themselves to being the very best in what they do. In bigger sports the level is almost certainly higher due to the sheer pressure of numbers and greater incentives. However, the legends don't have to do things that the average person in their sport can't do - they can just do it better.
Popular sports don't normally just promote the "extreme" parts of the sport that most people cannot do; they have a more rounded approach. Plenty of us love the "extreme" end but that is not the whole sport and if we pretend it is, we will turn off far more people than we turn on.
Even your inference that the world's best much be the ones who do PWA style events isn't correct. The last time I sat down and worked out the numbers the RSX (a board I really didn't like so have no reason to be biased) had more active sailors, more coaches, more money and a bigger feeder class than the PWA so would logically probably have had better sailors. So you can be among the best and not do the 'extreme' events, just as in cycling, football, running and just about all major sports.
Chris. In case you missed it i copied what the initial post said below. You've gone a fair way off topic fwiw
CEO/Leadership/Strategic Change. Windsurfing as a global sport really needs some fresh leadership and advice from people who can help to guide or drive strategic change.
Finance. We'd love someone with an accounting background to help oversee the finances, improve our financial processes and help us find efficiencies in our spend.
Global PR. We hold visually spectacular, exciting events that probably don't receive as much PR coverage around the world as they should. There's always limited funds, but we need help to find new, efficient ways to deliver global PR outcomes in the modern world.
Legal. A commercial lawyer could help advise us on our structure, subcontractor arrangements and event contracts.
Sponsorship/grants. Do you have a successful track record in securing major event sponsorship, or do you somehow have a good network of potential contacts where you can get a foot in the door for windsurfing sponsorship?
Junior/Women's Sports Development. We're quite new to these areas, so someone who has experience at developing and implementing programs and sourcing founding for them would be ideal.
.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..Subsonic said..Chris 249 said..
Why? And on what basis do you say it's dumb? Have you done historical analysis, read studies about what motivates people to take up sports, run a windsurfing class or club, participated in the PWA or its predecessor, etc etc etc?
Like Mark pretty much said above, blaming an association which by its very nature has into the sport for the low participation levels is dumb.
PWA windsurfers are people who have devoted themselves to being the very best at what they do. Should they dumb down the moves/slow down the race speeds because someone might see the images and think "that looks hard, windsurfings not for me."?
Some might look at the images and think the above. Others will look at the images and think "i want to be able to do that" probably those that have already chosen to get into windsurfing.
Completely and utterly wrong. The PWA itself states that it is intended to "help promote grass roots growth, strengthen the bonds of friendship between existing associations, classes and disciplines of windsurfing and to provide support and services for all windsurfers."
An association that claims itself that it is there to "promote grass roots" and "provide support and services for ALL windsurfers" clearly cannot be said to an association that has "nothing to do with providing "grass roots" entry". The PWA ITSELF SAYS IT IS THERE TO HELP PROMOTE GRASS ROOTS GROWTH. So don't tell me it's dumb to say it shouild do what it says it does itself. If you can't be bothered to look at what an association itself says it does then don't throw insults at those of us who actually do our homework.
[b]The statement you cherry picked from says a lot more than that:
About us[/b]
The Professional Windsurfers Association (PWA) represents excellence in windsurfing. It's current and past members constitute the very best windsurfers in the World. We the PWA are the sailors who represent the sport at the highest level of competition, we strive to improve everyday and make windsurfing better for you, the public. The PWA organize and sanction professional events, make new rules for the sport, help promote grass roots growth, strengthen the bonds of friendship between existing associations, classes and disciplines of windsurfing and to provide support and services for all windsurfers. The PWA is the official organisational body of Professional Windsurfing as sanctioned by World Sailing and is exclusively authorised to run the Professional Windsurfing World Cup Tour. Since 1996, the PWA has run over 250 events in more than 50 locations worldwide, from Fiji and New Caledonia to Poland and Denmark.
www.linkedin.com/company/the-professional-windsurfers-association-pwa
All trumps to them for helping to promote grass roots, but it's not at all the baseline of what they do.
The images clearly don't work well to get people into windsurfing because the sport is far smaller than it was, and people like the head of the biggest brand, the head of the biggest manufacturer and windsurfers with independent expertise in related areas have noted that promoting only one side of the sport is a major part of the problem.
How are the pictures only one side of the sport? I can see at least two different facets of the sport in the images. The ad is for advisers for the PWA, The images are of competitors at PWA events. it's not an ad to try to get people into the sport. Developing the growth of the sport is only one article of what they are looking for advisers for. Are they required to put some photos of windsurfer LTs or RSX or club level windsurfing on there because they are looking for advisers? There's only one portion of the advert that suggests they're seeking help to grow the sport.
The factors that influence a sport's popularity include the level of publicity, the type of publicity, the design of the equipment, the emphasis of the development, leisure time, geography, storage, demographics, the governing bodies and many other factors. It's an extremely complex area. To say that someone who has never studied these factors and their effect on participation levels is such an expert that they can insult people with a different angle is just dumb.
So why are you and shedweller doing it then? You're not the only two person/s here who have been in a position of trying to grow a sport in one way or another. There have been some different angles posted, but no one has claimed to be an expert on the matter (yours and shedwellers posts have been very assertive on the matter though.)
Oh, and the top athletes in every profession are people who have devoted themselves to being the very best in what they do. In bigger sports the level is almost certainly higher due to the sheer pressure of numbers and greater incentives. However, the legends don't have to do things that the average person in their sport can't do - they can just do it better.
Yes they certainly are devoted to being the best across the professions. But why exactly you think the level/pressure is higher in other professions, I'm not sure. Professional windsurfers are under a significant amount of pressure. They have to perform for their sponsor/s. At the top end that is where and how they are paid. Can the average motor sports enthusiast jump in an F1 car and drive it around a track?
Popular sports don't normally just promote the "extreme" parts of the sport that most people cannot do; they have a more rounded approach. Plenty of us love the "extreme" end but that is not the whole sport and if we pretend it is, we will turn off far more people than we turn on.
when was the last time you saw a junior league footy match on the news? Or a local cycling event that didn't involve the pros? The ad is seeking advisers for the PWA, not the local club. Are they not allowed to use pictures of what they do because it's not grass roots?
Even your inference that the world's best much be the ones who do PWA style events isn't correct. The last time I sat down and worked out the numbers the RSX (a board I really didn't like so have no reason to be biased) had more active sailors, more coaches, more money and a bigger feeder class than the PWA so would logically probably have had better sailors. So you can be among the best and not do the 'extreme' events, just as in cycling, football, running and just about all major sports.
I said "the very best at what THEY do" I did not infer they were the best sailors in the world, but it's quite arguable that they may well be that on occasion. Having coaches and money isn't everything. Would an RSX sailor be able to perform at PWA level in the wave comp?
I really hope the PWA find the advisers they need. It's quite a critical list of jobs they've got there. I can't imagine it's going to be easy to find what they're looking for
The PWA website is a joke.
Click on the VIDEOS link from the main header navigation for a prime example. The most recent video is "unavailable" and the next one is from 2021
News Articles - Check the news post titled Julian Salmonn - Sol. It's promoting a youtube video (like every other news article) yet they don't even hyperlink to the video but rather provide a text link that needs to be cut and pasted. Why not actually embed the video on the page !!!
PWA Athletes: Bernd Roediger as an example. Apparently he hasn't won an event since 2022. No mention of winning Omaezaki Japan World Cup this year. He has 3 photos on his page, all of them using Naish Sails instead of his current sponsor Hot Sails.
For a peak body, the PWA isn't doing the sport any favours at all.
This is the role of PWA
and for every one that loves windsurfing! To promote the sport you love.
Local shops with the help of local organisation should be organising events / not necessarily races to promote the sport as they will benefit from sells.
Select to expand quotejammo said..
The PWA website is a joke.
That's actually a fair call out and I agree that the website is heavily outdated. They would be better off using social media only at this point. So either invest in a modern website and have moderators that keep it updated or just take it offline and redirect to Facebook.
I believe Sarah Jackson is/was media manager and she's trying her best on socials but the website shouldn't be ignored.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
Chris. In case you missed it i copied what the initial post said below. You've gone a fair way off topic fwiw
CEO/Leadership/Strategic Change. Windsurfing as a global sport really needs some fresh leadership and advice from people who can help to guide or drive strategic change.
Finance. We'd love someone with an accounting background to help oversee the finances, improve our financial processes and help us find efficiencies in our spend.
Global PR. We hold visually spectacular, exciting events that probably don't receive as much PR coverage around the world as they should. There's always limited funds, but we need help to find new, efficient ways to deliver global PR outcomes in the modern world.
Legal. A commercial lawyer could help advise us on our structure, subcontractor arrangements and event contracts.
Sponsorship/grants. Do you have a successful track record in securing major event sponsorship, or do you somehow have a good network of potential contacts where you can get a foot in the door for windsurfing sponsorship?
Junior/Women's Sports Development. We're quite new to these areas, so someone who has experience at developing and implementing programs and sourcing founding for them would be ideal.
.
It may not actually be off topic at all. The point is that the PWA can be seen to be applying a model that is quite different from the ones applied by many other sports that have a stronger professional scene. If they changed that general model then it could also change some of the specific issues mentioned above. They are looking for a "strategic change" so that doesn't mean just fiddling at the edges.
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..Chris 249 said..Subsonic said..Chris 249 said..
Why? And on what basis do you say it's dumb? Have you done historical analysis, read studies about what motivates people to take up sports, run a windsurfing class or club, participated in the PWA or its predecessor, etc etc etc?
Like Mark pretty much said above, blaming an association which by its very nature has into the sport for the low participation levels is dumb.
PWA windsurfers are people who have devoted themselves to being the very best at what they do. Should they dumb down the moves/slow down the race speeds because someone might see the images and think "that looks hard, windsurfings not for me."?
Some might look at the images and think the above. Others will look at the images and think "i want to be able to do that" probably those that have already chosen to get into windsurfing.
Completely and utterly wrong. The PWA itself states that it is intended to "help promote grass roots growth, strengthen the bonds of friendship between existing associations, classes and disciplines of windsurfing and to provide support and services for all windsurfers."
An association that claims itself that it is there to "promote grass roots" and "provide support and services for ALL windsurfers" clearly cannot be said to an association that has "nothing to do with providing "grass roots" entry". The PWA ITSELF SAYS IT IS THERE TO HELP PROMOTE GRASS ROOTS GROWTH. So don't tell me it's dumb to say it shouild do what it says it does itself. If you can't be bothered to look at what an association itself says it does then don't throw insults at those of us who actually do our homework.
[b]The statement you cherry picked from says a lot more than that:
About us[/b]
The Professional Windsurfers Association (PWA) represents excellence in windsurfing. It's current and past members constitute the very best windsurfers in the World. We the PWA are the sailors who represent the sport at the highest level of competition, we strive to improve everyday and make windsurfing better for you, the public. The PWA organize and sanction professional events, make new rules for the sport, help promote grass roots growth, strengthen the bonds of friendship between existing associations, classes and disciplines of windsurfing and to provide support and services for all windsurfers. The PWA is the official organisational body of Professional Windsurfing as sanctioned by World Sailing and is exclusively authorised to run the Professional Windsurfing World Cup Tour. Since 1996, the PWA has run over 250 events in more than 50 locations worldwide, from Fiji and New Caledonia to Poland and Denmark.
www.linkedin.com/company/the-professional-windsurfers-association-pwa
All trumps to them for helping to promote grass roots, but it's not at all the baseline of what they do.
The images clearly don't work well to get people into windsurfing because the sport is far smaller than it was, and people like the head of the biggest brand, the head of the biggest manufacturer and windsurfers with independent expertise in related areas have noted that promoting only one side of the sport is a major part of the problem.
How are the pictures only one side of the sport? I can see at least two different facets of the sport in the images. The ad is for advisers for the PWA, The images are of competitors at PWA events. it's not an ad to try to get people into the sport. Developing the growth of the sport is only one article of what they are looking for advisers for. Are they required to put some photos of windsurfer LTs or RSX or club level windsurfing on there because they are looking for advisers? There's only one portion of the advert that suggests they're seeking help to grow the sport.
The factors that influence a sport's popularity include the level of publicity, the type of publicity, the design of the equipment, the emphasis of the development, leisure time, geography, storage, demographics, the governing bodies and many other factors. It's an extremely complex area. To say that someone who has never studied these factors and their effect on participation levels is such an expert that they can insult people with a different angle is just dumb.
So why are you and shedweller doing it then? You're not the only two person/s here who have been in a position of trying to grow a sport in one way or another. There have been some different angles posted, but no one has claimed to be an expert on the matter (yours and shedwellers posts have been very assertive on the matter though.)
Oh, and the top athletes in every profession are people who have devoted themselves to being the very best in what they do. In bigger sports the level is almost certainly higher due to the sheer pressure of numbers and greater incentives. However, the legends don't have to do things that the average person in their sport can't do - they can just do it better.
Yes they certainly are devoted to being the best across the professions. But why exactly you think the level/pressure is higher in other professions, I'm not sure. Professional windsurfers are under a significant amount of pressure. They have to perform for their sponsor/s. At the top end that is where and how they are paid. Can the average motor sports enthusiast jump in an F1 car and drive it around a track?
Popular sports don't normally just promote the "extreme" parts of the sport that most people cannot do; they have a more rounded approach. Plenty of us love the "extreme" end but that is not the whole sport and if we pretend it is, we will turn off far more people than we turn on.
when was the last time you saw a junior league footy match on the news? Or a local cycling event that didn't involve the pros? The ad is seeking advisers for the PWA, not the local club. Are they not allowed to use pictures of what they do because it's not grass roots?
Even your inference that the world's best much be the ones who do PWA style events isn't correct. The last time I sat down and worked out the numbers the RSX (a board I really didn't like so have no reason to be biased) had more active sailors, more coaches, more money and a bigger feeder class than the PWA so would logically probably have had better sailors. So you can be among the best and not do the 'extreme' events, just as in cycling, football, running and just about all major sports.
I said "the very best at what THEY do" I did not infer they were the best sailors in the world, but it's quite arguable that they may well be that on occasion. Having coaches and money isn't everything. Would an RSX sailor be able to perform at PWA level in the wave comp?
I didn't "cherry pick" the PWA's statement, which implies that I did something misleading. I pointed out that the claims that the PWA is just there for the pros is not correct ACCORDING TO THE PWA ITSELF.
I wasn't denigrating the PWA pros when I said that the RSX (and now IQ Foil) guys are logically just as good. The point was that in windsurfing, as in other sports, the best pros can do the same sort of event that the average guys do. The pros don't have to be the ones doing extreme stuff. By the way, there are quite a few commercial companies that exist because the average person CAN drive an F1 car - just google it.
You asked when I last saw a junior footy comp or an amateur bike race on the TV. That misses the point. We see pro footy and pro bike races on the TV but those pros are doing the same thing that the grass roots footy players and cyclists are doing - the pros are just doing it better. How to translate that into windsurfing is interesting but surely the point is worth addressing, especially when the PWA's current formula is not working and people who study such things for a job are very aware of the issues caused by the way windsurfing has developed.
If the PWA and windsurfing are in trouble then we can either do nothing, fiddle around the edges, or re-think the basic way we're dealing with the problem by using research. The latter seems to be the most productive solution.
By the way I've participated in world level events run by the PWA's predecessor and similar bodies and put in a lot of time successfully growing the sport so I'm not sitting back and throwing stones.
Select to expand quoteptsf1111 said..
...or just take it offline and redirect to Facebook.
I believe Sarah Jackson is/was media manager and she's trying her best on socials but the website shouldn't be ignored.
I agree with your last point and dearly hope they don't "just redirect to FB". A surprising number of people, especially younger people, aren't on FB or regulars. As well, FB is a walled garden, doesn't play that well with the internet in general and is horrible for finding content via search engines. FB has a place as part of the social media landscape which can serve a useful function but its limitations are significant.
Side note: if your local crew has a FB group, please, for the love of all that is good: a) make it public so people can share content and b) moderate the users and content so that the only thing on there isn't T-shirt spam.
