Select to expand quotecammd said..Chris249 said..cammd said..Chris249 said..cammd said..
Support the people that support the sport.
Cammd, I appreciate your passion for supporting those who support the sport. However, not everyone is going to turn up every race. If people have other commitments, then $650 to do a few races may be too much. We should not insult someone who through no fault of their own may not have a spare $650 for racing fees for whatever reason (age, divorce, spending on kids sports, whatever). Nor should we insult someone who prefers a cheaper community-based club. There are people of all different backgrounds, situations and tastes in this fantastic sport and surely we should respect that.
I may add that I ran a class association for years, starting from a basis where my wife and I put up a fair bit of our own money to make sure the nationals happened and ending up with the biggest championship in Australia for a couple of years running. We have both been involved in club and class activities for years, and over the last couple of days I've done everything from clean out the club fridge to dragging the start boat ashore in the rain and dealing with a handicap issue. Yes, the sport does need a lot of support, but we should respect the wishes of those who don't want to throw what is a fairly big lump of cash around.
Sure that is fine but calling a club expensive because you only want to race a few times a year is false, if you can't take advantage of the value on offer that does not make the club expensive.
A club can't exist only on the days that an individual wants to sail, it has expenses to meet every day of the year. anyway RQ is marginally more expensive than Parkdale.
So if you only want to race once or twice a year for whatever reason fine, joining any club is going to make those races expensive but if you want to do club racing on a regular basis over a full season then you need to expect to pay more than $100.
The guy who made this thread sounded like he wanted to start racing. All I was doing was making an effort to let him know what was on offer in Brisbane and trying to set what I think is a reasonable expectation for costs.
The point is that the people who find it too costly for them shouldn't be insulted, particularly if they have no need of the value on offer. There are actually cheaper clubs and if someone prefers the cheaper option, good on them.
You can enter racing casually at RQ up to 3 times, the thinking behind this is to allow to try before you buy, its only allowed three times because to continue to enter casually on an ongoing basis would be unfair to the members who bear the cost of running the club every day regardless of how often they use it.
I think what your suggesting by just paying the minimum amount to race when it suits you is actually an insult to all those people that support clubs by joining them and paying the fees. I take it that's what you meant when you referred to people that have no need of the value on offer.
Cammd, as someone who has spent many hours running clubs and classes I can say that I have never heard anyone else complain if people choose to sail at a cheaper club if that suits them.
I didnt say people should sail regularly at rqys without joining. All I am saying is that some people should be allowed to join a cheaper club (or no club at all if they race rarely) and not be criticised for their choice.
By the way if money is not the issue why don't the rqys boardsailers pay the same membership fees as the yacht owners?
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..cammd said..Chris249 said..cammd said..Chris249 said..cammd said..
Support the people that support the sport.
Cammd, I appreciate your passion for supporting those who support the sport. However, not everyone is going to turn up every race. If people have other commitments, then $650 to do a few races may be too much. We should not insult someone who through no fault of their own may not have a spare $650 for racing fees for whatever reason (age, divorce, spending on kids sports, whatever). Nor should we insult someone who prefers a cheaper community-based club. There are people of all different backgrounds, situations and tastes in this fantastic sport and surely we should respect that.
I may add that I ran a class association for years, starting from a basis where my wife and I put up a fair bit of our own money to make sure the nationals happened and ending up with the biggest championship in Australia for a couple of years running. We have both been involved in club and class activities for years, and over the last couple of days I've done everything from clean out the club fridge to dragging the start boat ashore in the rain and dealing with a handicap issue. Yes, the sport does need a lot of support, but we should respect the wishes of those who don't want to throw what is a fairly big lump of cash around.
Sure that is fine but calling a club expensive because you only want to race a few times a year is false, if you can't take advantage of the value on offer that does not make the club expensive.
A club can't exist only on the days that an individual wants to sail, it has expenses to meet every day of the year. anyway RQ is marginally more expensive than Parkdale.
So if you only want to race once or twice a year for whatever reason fine, joining any club is going to make those races expensive but if you want to do club racing on a regular basis over a full season then you need to expect to pay more than $100.
The guy who made this thread sounded like he wanted to start racing. All I was doing was making an effort to let him know what was on offer in Brisbane and trying to set what I think is a reasonable expectation for costs.
The point is that the people who find it too costly for them shouldn't be insulted, particularly if they have no need of the value on offer. There are actually cheaper clubs and if someone prefers the cheaper option, good on them.
You can enter racing casually at RQ up to 3 times, the thinking behind this is to allow to try before you buy, its only allowed three times because to continue to enter casually on an ongoing basis would be unfair to the members who bear the cost of running the club every day regardless of how often they use it.
I think what your suggesting by just paying the minimum amount to race when it suits you is actually an insult to all those people that support clubs by joining them and paying the fees. I take it that's what you meant when you referred to people that have no need of the value on offer.
Cammd, as someone who has spent many hours running clubs and classes I can say that I have never heard anyone else complain if people choose to sail at a cheaper club if that suits them.
I didnt say people should sail regularly at rqys without joining. All I am saying is that some people should be allowed to join a cheaper club (or no club at all if they race rarely) and not be criticised for their choice.
Well Chris pretty sure I have never said people need to join my club, I have put an argument forward as to why I thinks its a good club to join but they can join whatever club they want. If they want to race they do need to join a club and they will need to spend some money. That's all I am saying.
Racing without insurance (not matter how rare its done) is not on and is completely at odds with AWA and AS, you need to rethink that advice your posting.
Furthermore clubs are a vital point of entry to the sport, look at who's running learn to windsurf programs, it the clubs ,RQ DAC Woollahra, Parkdale, Windwanderers etc etc. Starve them of funds and investment and events in the sport will die.
Select to expand quoteChris249 said..
Sounds great, Clarence. FYI we had some pretty fair interclub/interclass racing in NSW, using handicaps derived from the Australian Sailing yardsticks. From memory it was;
9.5 Raceboard 93
7.5 Raceboard 98
Windsurfer One Design (LT) 114 Pumping restrictions as per class rules
Techno 110 (?)
RSX 103 (?)
Obviously it's not perfect because the boards perform differently in different wind strengths and angles and course sizes, but it turned out to be pretty damn close with the national IMCO champ winning the series from a top One Design sailor if I recall correctly. They were both about the same speed when they both sailed IMCO and both sailed Windsurfer, so the system seemed to work. I did the same sums for club racing at DAC and again over a series the system worked quite well.
If anyone is interested I would be happy to contact RQYS to see if I can get some information from their mixed fleet racing to tune the numbers and perhaps bring in FW and foilboards.
If you have info on mixed fleet racing that would be good.
I have heard that Tony Matta is keen on the mixed R300 / Techno fleet idea.
It depends a lot on what the existing stock of boards is in an area. In Tasmania I think there are not a huge number or 380 raceboards.
Is there a yardstick for formula and/or foil boards?
Clarence
Select to expand quotecammd said..Chris 249 said..
Cammd, as someone who has spent many hours running clubs and classes I can say that I have never heard anyone else complain if people choose to sail at a cheaper club if that suits them.
I didnt say people should sail regularly at rqys without joining. All I am saying is that some people should be allowed to join a cheaper club (or no club at all if they race rarely) and not be criticised for their choice.
Well Chris pretty sure I have never said people need to join my club, I have put an argument forward as to why I thinks its a good club to join but they can join whatever club they want. If they want to race they do need to join a club and they will need to spend some money. That's all I am saying.
Racing without insurance (not matter how rare its done) is not on and is completely at odds with AWA and AS, you need to rethink that advice your posting.
Furthermore clubs are a vital point of entry to the sport, look at who's running learn to windsurf programs, it the clubs ,RQ DAC Woollahra, Parkdale, Windwanderers etc etc. Starve them of funds and investment and events in the sport will die.
I don't need to rethink my "advice". I never posted any advice that anyone can race without insurance. You can get that by joining a class.
Select to expand quotecammd said..windsufering said..
Mary be you should not have endorsed a a scathing review of the Wally Lt .
Oh OK so no one is allowed to dare say anything negative about the "sacred" Wally LT
anyway
All I did was call out your hypocrisy
LOL
Oh ok so no one is allowed to dare say anything about the " sacred " RQYS
Give it a rest whoever has started the petty forum conflict.
Getting boring real quick.
lol, I guess the only way to solve the petty argument is with the MOST important question of them all ??
Which club serves the coldest cheapest schooners? 
