Select to expand quoteBSN101 said..BSN101 said..vortex said..BSN101 said..
MW, can you advise of price to get a sail to Western Australia, say Perth. Cheaper if 2 come?
BSN101
I will let you know the shipping charge to WA tomorrow.
awesome, and price for 2 wings.
Cheers
OK,, so how many out there want to put some money down to try this damn sail?
Add to list or PM me. Looking for $150ea. WA easiest but east coast can have some fun with it too I guess or one for west one for east.
Dave W $150
I'm in PM Sent
Select to expand quotehardie said..MWsails said..hardie said..
A lot of wisdom has been offered here.
The internet has bought in the Information Age, very easy to sort the hype and trype from the knowledge, and facts.
Proof is now required to back up claims.
I love to support windsurfing and innovation. I have an annual budget of $XXXX and spend it every year. Currently I have many main brand production sails, and my GPS data has shown that at 57 as I'm slowing down mentally and physically I am sailing faster and faster, predominantly using same boards and fins, only difference being new sails. The say the bull**** stops when the data drops. My GPS data is proof the new sails have helped me to go faster, as I age and weary.
My sails are very easy to rig, your video shows your sails are harder to rig. So the only thing that would tempt me to buy your sail was if they were demonstrably faster on GPS. If I could try one and smash my PB's, I would definitely hand over my cash.
Hardie, right, Latest design is short sail with very low center of lift, Is not really efficient but it allowing you to keep hi angle of attack. Plus matching friction of the board, etc ( narroow board is not always fastest board). Than it steep downwind run when relative wind actually drops to the point when you can't go faster and you wish you have larger lifting surface. The reason why my sail is better for speed sailing is because it allows you to have 5.8 area with larger lifting surface and very stable and confident run. You still need to apply all your speedsailing tricks but opportunity go faster is right on my website. I'm not pressuring anyone to buy sail , first of all I do not financially depend on sail making , I have other more profitable business . The very reason why I'm doing this is same reason of why you keep trying to break your own speed record.
I think its fantastic that you are developing these sails, I encourage you to continue, better than doing a lot of other bad habits with your time.
The issue you have is how to market the sail. It is obvious to see that what you have tried so far, has created a lot of negative publicity for yourself, and so maybe you could try a different approach, and benefit from some of the wisdom shared here.
Hardie, I did not really market sail. If I need to market I would do it by placing adds and other. I just introduce new, one in the world product. And I like to discuss it with public . I was probably misunderstood here with negativity. Sorry I often hard on unreasonable criticism but it is what it is .
2002 called and wants it's double sided wing sail back
www.boatdesign.net/threads/anyone-familiar-with-powerfoil-sails.603/
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..MWsails said..Mark _australia said..MWsails said..We put final commercial version in October, we don't have racers around here. Season is over . So you guys have to wait until spring time . Yes sail go faster than regular sail same size in rough and flat conditions , all we have to do is to find name who you can trust. Or we can do this: If sail does not improve your speed over regular same size, send it back we refund your money 100%.
#1- So u have gone all out pimping it on forums and a website - but in your long testing and development you have not had a really good sailor test it side-by-side with other equipment?
I am not after a name we can trust - just the same proficient sailor using it, alternating with his regular sail, and GPS readings for the day as he swaps sails a few times.
Your sail did not just materialise from nowhere, it has taken a while to develop, so I don't think "its not our season at the moment" is really an answer.
If I asked Ben Severne in our winter 6mths ago how the 2018 sail performs, he will be able to tell me all about the 2 yrs of testing ....... not say "oh its not the season now so I dunno..."
Where are the test numbers from last season....?
Then #2- so you are saying it has a wider range and the 5.8 will replace all my sails from 4.2 to 6m or so?
Plus it is faster in flat and open water?
And you guarantee that 100%?
Yes I garanty that 100%. The rest I will answer later when i get home.
Still waiting.
Cancel the physics lessons, I'd just be happy to see something like:
Bob Smith used the sail and on his 7m Reflex4 he was getting 30kn runs
on the 5.8 windsail he got 34kn runs. The wind was constant 25kn for the whole 2hr testing period (etc)
here's a table of all the GPS numbers ....................
Even if you can't do that here's what is still subjective but would count more than the salesman speak you have so far:
Pete Jones used his 4.5 all day then went to the 5.8 wingsail here's the video of both sails taken 10min apart. (Not just grandiose statements about massive wind range)
Joe Joespehson was overpowered on a 5.5 NCX. He changed to a 5.8 Wingsail and it was clearly more in control - here's the video of both sails taken 10min apart.
This is what we all want !
Tomorrow on our local beach .
He Big Boy !
Can I tempt you in to a test drive....
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Why don't you guys just simply prove your theories by going faster - like so many other soft wingsail guys have failed to do?
That's another nonsense request. MWsails has stated repeatedly that the goal of his current sail design is not higher speed, but rather more stability over a larger wind range. He does, however, seem to fail to understand the need to have his claims verified completely independently (that is, not on his web site, and from someone well known and trusted).
But if you argue that proven top speed illustrates whether "thin" sails or wing sails are better, the Vestas Sailrocket 2 make a very clear statement that wing sails are faster.
Would it be possible for MWsails to beat current records (even just spot records)? That would be absolutely amazing, considering how much effort went into the development of current speed sails. Just for Luderitz alone, the budget from sail brands that are well represented (e.g. Loft Sails and Severne this year) must be huge, compared to the rather limited resources that MWsails has.
Picture fixed / changed amazing that now the air flow is clean and enters the foil smoothly at the front.
Its a more realistic representation of a modern sail but at that angle of attack i would imagine would be getting some separation on the low pressure side.
Your all just posting pictures of stuff that is totally made up no one has defined the conditions under which the sail will operate every picture just has a random profile to prove whatever they want . I can draw a picture of a windsurfer in the moon landing sail blowing the breeze, doesn't mean it's true or relevant .
Does anyone know the answers to these questions i think the must be answered before any technical argument can be made.
What is typical wind gradient between 0 and 5m at 1 m intervals at 15/20/25 knots , (this would be important) ?
What is the typical windspeed / board speed ratio at various angles across wind/ 30 degrees off/ 30 degrees up (obviously needed to determine apparent wind angle and combined with gradient to calculate the twist) ?
What is the angle of attack of a windsurfer sail at various points of sail ? (what foil shape do we even need, when combined with everything else )
How much lateral force can be applied to the sail by the sailor ? ( is a shorter sail faster because the rider can hold more force even though it will obviously have a lower l/d ratio or is the taller one faster because of a lower l/d , no point making a sail that simulates well as a plane wing when the conditions are different here .)
I have no measurements for these i could have a guess but if anyone and offcourse all those numbers could be mashed together in various ways to work out lots of things and would be the basis of any technical argument based on drawings graphs and quotes. If i was to make a sail i would establish these first. Of course there is a lot of people making great sails with experience and knowledge probably not doing this.
Realistically though if we want to see how well an existing product works the results are all that matters even if we don't know why it works its unimportant as long as we get the results we want.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
2002 called and wants it's double sided wing sail back
www.boatdesign.net/threads/anyone-familiar-with-powerfoil-sails.603/
1994 called with this
similar sails same problem !!
Stanislav solved the problem with home made carbon extra stiff triangular battons !!! BRAVO !!
And
carbon fiber batton tensioners
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..Chris 249 said..
Why don't you guys just simply prove your theories by going faster - like so many other soft wingsail guys have failed to do?
That's another nonsense request. MWsails has stated repeatedly that the goal of his current sail design is not higher speed, but rather more stability over a larger wind range. He does, however, seem to fail to understand the need to have his claims verified completely independently (that is, not on his web site, and from someone well known and trusted).
But if you argue that proven top speed illustrates whether "thin" sails or wing sails are better, the Vestas Sailrocket 2 make a very clear statement that wing sails are faster.
Would it be possible for MWsails to beat current records (even just spot records)? That would be absolutely amazing, considering how much effort went into the development of current speed sails. Just for Luderitz alone, the budget from sail brands that are well represented (e.g. Loft Sails and Severne this year) must be huge, compared to the rather limited resources that MWsails has.
No, it is NOT a nonsense request at all. MW said his sails are "100% better in all respects". If a sail is "100% better in all respects" then it must produce twice the lift at half the drag and twice the controllability and therefore it will win. Simple. If thin sails still go faster, then they are not "primitive" devices favoured by foolish people as Stan claims
Sure, in some contexts (ie C Class cats) wingsails are faster. I have never denied that. The moment that was proven on the racecourse, people accepted it and went 'wow". It was that simple - all they had to do was win.
If the "100% better" claims are true then going much faster than "primitive" sails must be easy.
Select to expand quoteSimon100 said..
Picture fixed / changed amazing that now the air flow is clean and enters the foil smoothly at the front.
Its a more realistic representation of a modern sail but at that angle of attack i would imagine would be getting some separation on the low pressure side.
Your all just posting pictures of stuff that is totally made up no one has defined the conditions under which the sail will operate every picture just has a random profile to prove whatever they want . I can draw a picture of a windsurfer in the moon landing sail blowing the breeze, doesn't mean it's true or relevant .
Does anyone know the answers to these questions i think the must be answered before any technical argument can be made.
What is typical wind gradient between 0 and 5m at 1 m intervals at 15/20/25 knots , (this would be important) ?
What is the typical windspeed / board speed ratio at various angles across wind/ 30 degrees off/ 30 degrees up (obviously needed to determine apparent wind angle and combined with gradient to calculate the twist) ?
What is the angle of attack of a windsurfer sail at various points of sail ? (what foil shape do we even need, when combined with everything else )
How much lateral force can be applied to the sail by the sailor ? ( is a shorter sail faster because the rider can hold more force even though it will obviously have a lower l/d ratio or is the taller one faster because of a lower l/d , no point making a sail that simulates well as a plane wing when the conditions are different here .)
I have no measurements for these i could have a guess but if anyone and offcourse all those numbers could be mashed together in various ways to work out lots of things and would be the basis of any technical argument based on drawings graphs and quotes. If i was to make a sail i would establish these first. Of course there is a lot of people making great sails with experience and knowledge probably not doing this.
Realistically though if we want to see how well an existing product works the results are all that matters even if we don't know why it works its unimportant as long as we get the results we want.
Well said.
Tim Gourlay's paper (linked to earlier) seems to make a good stab at some of the issues you highlighted, but your questions show how complex sail aerodynamics are.
Select to expand quoteSimon100 said..
Picture fixed / changed amazing that now the air flow is clean and enters the foil smoothly at the front.
Its a more realistic representation of a modern sail but at that angle of attack i would imagine would be getting some separation on the low pressure side.
Your all just posting pictures of stuff that is totally made up no one has defined the conditions under which the sail will operate every picture just has a random profile to prove whatever they want . I can draw a picture of a windsurfer in the moon landing sail blowing the breeze, doesn't mean it's true or relevant .
Does anyone know the answers to these questions i think the must be answered before any technical argument can be made.
What is typical wind gradient between 0 and 5m at 1 m intervals at 15/20/25 knots , (this would be important) ?
What is the typical windspeed / board speed ratio at various angles across wind/ 30 degrees off/ 30 degrees up (obviously needed to determine apparent wind angle and combined with gradient to calculate the twist) ?
What is the angle of attack of a windsurfer sail at various points of sail ? (what foil shape do we even need, when combined with everything else )
How much lateral force can be applied to the sail by the sailor ? ( is a shorter sail faster because the rider can hold more force even though it will obviously have a lower l/d ratio or is the taller one faster because of a lower l/d , no point making a sail that simulates well as a plane wing when the conditions are different here .)
I have no measurements for these i could have a guess but if anyone and offcourse all those numbers could be mashed together in various ways to work out lots of things and would be the basis of any technical argument based on drawings graphs and quotes. If i was to make a sail i would establish these first. Of course there is a lot of people making great sails with experience and knowledge probably not doing this.
Realistically though if we want to see how well an existing product works the results are all that matters even if we don't know why it works its unimportant as long as we get the results we want.
You are right , nobody has don all the research . It will cost you millions to do so , days in windtunnels , prototype's hours of gigacomputer time...
We , just like airplane designers , concentrated on making a sail that can handle all the different variables in a simple to operate design .
If you feel like it and have de money you can make a high performance sail for every specific condision ...Keep them all ready on the beach and "have the wrong one on the water " all the time Stanislav made a design that is working very good in all conditions !
How good it will perform in all the different conditions time will tell ...
Select to expand quoteMWsails said..Mark _australia said..MWsails said..Mark _australia said..MWsails said..We put final commercial version in October, we don't have racers around here. Season is over . So you guys have to wait until spring time . Yes sail go faster than regular sail same size in rough and flat conditions , all we have to do is to find name who you can trust. Or we can do this: If sail does not improve your speed over regular same size, send it back we refund your money 100%.
#1- So u have gone all out pimping it on forums and a website - but in your long testing and development you have not had a really good sailor test it side-by-side with other equipment?
I am not after a name we can trust - just the same proficient sailor using it, alternating with his regular sail, and GPS readings for the day as he swaps sails a few times.
Your sail did not just materialise from nowhere, it has taken a while to develop, so I don't think "its not our season at the moment" is really an answer.
If I asked Ben Severne in our winter 6mths ago how the 2018 sail performs, he will be able to tell me all about the 2 yrs of testing ....... not say "oh its not the season now so I dunno..."
Where are the test numbers from last season....?
Then #2- so you are saying it has a wider range and the 5.8 will replace all my sails from 4.2 to 6m or so?
Plus it is faster in flat and open water?
And you guarantee that 100%?
Yes I garanty that 100%. The rest I will answer later when i get home.
Still waiting.
Cancel the physics lessons, I'd just be happy to see something like:
Bob Smith used the sail and on his 7m Reflex4 he was getting 30kn runs
on the 5.8 windsail he got 34kn runs. The wind was constant 25kn for the whole 2hr testing period (etc)
here's a table of all the GPS numbers ....................
Even if you can't do that here's what is still subjective but would count more than the salesman speak you have so far:
Pete Jones used his 4.5 all day then went to the 5.8 wingsail here's the video of both sails taken 10min apart. (Not just grandiose statements about massive wind range)
Joe Joespehson was overpowered on a 5.5 NCX. He changed to a 5.8 Wingsail and it was clearly more in control - here's the video of both sails taken 10min apart.
Sure here we go, Luke , on my video was riding his 4 meter sail he was fully powered but slower than wing , than he took 5.8 wing and was surprised with wing 's stability and speed, than he hooked wing to his own board that he was using on 4 meter sail that day and he said that board become stable and fast. After, he posted review on MW sails site. Luke is real person and he have account on Facebook.
Is this good enough?
Luke reckons he went from his 4.0 to your 5.8. Well fkn yayyy!!! for Luke.
That's great but if I am on my 4.0 wavesail, I can almost go to a 5.8 full cambered race sail. A slight wind drop and I could claim it easily.
SO NO YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED that question.
What wind strength, what sail was he on (and video of it) , then he changed to your sail, was the wind the same?
You have just said he changed sail and it was good. Maybe he had an over downhauled, over outhauled 4m wave sail (which would be twitchy as hell) then went to your sail just as the wind happened to ease a little. No video of before the sail change...?
How would we know if the wind was the same? All Luke says is he was on a 4 and he sailed your 5.8 and it was nice.
Well gee whizz.....
THEN you need to have multiple examples of it working (for multiple people who are very proficient sailors)
Example - today I sailed on a 5.8 NP Atlas (wave sail) and it was perfect. (yes, really I did! just happens to be same size as your magic sail)
But then the wind dropped a tiny bit, I reckon in a more stable freeride sail I could easily have sailed a 7m and just gone blasting BAF,
I could video that and say the 7m is so much better than the 5.8. And claim it must have the wind range much greater than the 5.8.
But the video would not show before and after, nor the wind strength, nor the fact I was wave riding on sail #1 but then changed style to just blasting for sail #2. Plus it would be just one guy saying it, and everyone thinks I am full of crap.
So no, it is not good enough. Luke must like his free sail though.
The person making the extraordinary claim needs extraordinary proof. We are not being cruel, just wisely prudent. You show proof, people will buy. (one guy is not proof)
You just tell everyone its great, they will question (and slam u online)
Select to expand quoteNelsonFoils said..Simon100 said..
Picture fixed / changed amazing that now the air flow is clean and enters the foil smoothly at the front.
Its a more realistic representation of a modern sail but at that angle of attack i would imagine would be getting some separation on the low pressure side.
Your all just posting pictures of stuff that is totally made up no one has defined the conditions under which the sail will operate every picture just has a random profile to prove whatever they want . I can draw a picture of a windsurfer in the moon landing sail blowing the breeze, doesn't mean it's true or relevant .
Does anyone know the answers to these questions i think the must be answered before any technical argument can be made.
What is typical wind gradient between 0 and 5m at 1 m intervals at 15/20/25 knots , (this would be important) ?
What is the typical windspeed / board speed ratio at various angles across wind/ 30 degrees off/ 30 degrees up (obviously needed to determine apparent wind angle and combined with gradient to calculate the twist) ?
What is the angle of attack of a windsurfer sail at various points of sail ? (what foil shape do we even need, when combined with everything else )
How much lateral force can be applied to the sail by the sailor ? ( is a shorter sail faster because the rider can hold more force even though it will obviously have a lower l/d ratio or is the taller one faster because of a lower l/d , no point making a sail that simulates well as a plane wing when the conditions are different here .)
I have no measurements for these i could have a guess but if anyone and offcourse all those numbers could be mashed together in various ways to work out lots of things and would be the basis of any technical argument based on drawings graphs and quotes. If i was to make a sail i would establish these first. Of course there is a lot of people making great sails with experience and knowledge probably not doing this.
Realistically though if we want to see how well an existing product works the results are all that matters even if we don't know why it works its unimportant as long as we get the results we want.
You are right , nobody has don all the research . It will cost you millions to do so , days in windtunnels , prototype's hours of gigacomputer time...
We , just like airplane designers , concentrated on making a sail that can handle all the different variables in a simple to operate design .
If you feel like it and have de money you can make a high performance sail for every specific condision ...Keep them all ready on the beach and "have the wrong one on the water " all the time Stanislav made a design that is working very good in all conditions !
How good it will perform in all the different conditions time will tell ...
No it's not that hard I can easily make all the equipment to test that It's 2017 not 1960 that's not a gigacomputer it could be done with a tiny budget and a cheap laptop. The point is There are people arguing technical points without knowing the conditions its like saying which is the best wheel without knowing what it will be used for. Even a basic estimation would be far more useful than blindly arguing.
Select to expand quoteBSN101 said..BSN101 said..vortex said..BSN101 said..
MW, can you advise of price to get a sail to Western Australia, say Perth. Cheaper if 2 come?
BSN101
I will let you know the shipping charge to WA tomorrow.
awesome, and price for 2 wings.
Cheers
OK,, so how many out there want to put some money down to try this damn sail?
Add to list or PM me. Looking for $150ea. WA easiest but east coast can have some fun with it too I guess or one for west one for east.
Dave W $150
There are 2 parties now.
Pit your name on the list or PM me,
dont be shy folks
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..Simon100 said..
Picture fixed / changed amazing that now the air flow is clean and enters the foil smoothly at the front.
Its a more realistic representation of a modern sail but at that angle of attack i would imagine would be getting some separation on the low pressure side.
Your all just posting pictures of stuff that is totally made up no one has defined the conditions under which the sail will operate every picture just has a random profile to prove whatever they want . I can draw a picture of a windsurfer in the moon landing sail blowing the breeze, doesn't mean it's true or relevant .
Does anyone know the answers to these questions i think the must be answered before any technical argument can be made.
What is typical wind gradient between 0 and 5m at 1 m intervals at 15/20/25 knots , (this would be important) ?
What is the typical windspeed / board speed ratio at various angles across wind/ 30 degrees off/ 30 degrees up (obviously needed to determine apparent wind angle and combined with gradient to calculate the twist) ?
What is the angle of attack of a windsurfer sail at various points of sail ? (what foil shape do we even need, when combined with everything else )
How much lateral force can be applied to the sail by the sailor ? ( is a shorter sail faster because the rider can hold more force even though it will obviously have a lower l/d ratio or is the taller one faster because of a lower l/d , no point making a sail that simulates well as a plane wing when the conditions are different here .)
I have no measurements for these i could have a guess but if anyone and offcourse all those numbers could be mashed together in various ways to work out lots of things and would be the basis of any technical argument based on drawings graphs and quotes. If i was to make a sail i would establish these first. Of course there is a lot of people making great sails with experience and knowledge probably not doing this.
Realistically though if we want to see how well an existing product works the results are all that matters even if we don't know why it works its unimportant as long as we get the results we want.
Well said.
Tim Gourlay's paper (linked to earlier) seems to make a good stab at some of the issues you highlighted, but your questions show how complex sail aerodynamics are.
Chris you didn't answer , why do you need sail change every 6 kt? And please put a lot of science behind it .
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..MWsails said..Mark _australia said..MWsails said..Mark _australia said..MWsails said..We put final commercial version in October, we don't have racers around here. Season is over . So you guys have to wait until spring time . Yes sail go faster than regular sail same size in rough and flat conditions , all we have to do is to find name who you can trust. Or we can do this: If sail does not improve your speed over regular same size, send it back we refund your money 100%.
#1- So u have gone all out pimping it on forums and a website - but in your long testing and development you have not had a really good sailor test it side-by-side with other equipment?
I am not after a name we can trust - just the same proficient sailor using it, alternating with his regular sail, and GPS readings for the day as he swaps sails a few times.
Your sail did not just materialise from nowhere, it has taken a while to develop, so I don't think "its not our season at the moment" is really an answer.
If I asked Ben Severne in our winter 6mths ago how the 2018 sail performs, he will be able to tell me all about the 2 yrs of testing ....... not say "oh its not the season now so I dunno..."
Where are the test numbers from last season....?
Then #2- so you are saying it has a wider range and the 5.8 will replace all my sails from 4.2 to 6m or so?
Plus it is faster in flat and open water?
And you guarantee that 100%?
Yes I garanty that 100%. The rest I will answer later when i get home.
Still waiting.
Cancel the physics lessons, I'd just be happy to see something like:
Bob Smith used the sail and on his 7m Reflex4 he was getting 30kn runs
on the 5.8 windsail he got 34kn runs. The wind was constant 25kn for the whole 2hr testing period (etc)
here's a table of all the GPS numbers ....................
Even if you can't do that here's what is still subjective but would count more than the salesman speak you have so far:
Pete Jones used his 4.5 all day then went to the 5.8 wingsail here's the video of both sails taken 10min apart. (Not just grandiose statements about massive wind range)
Joe Joespehson was overpowered on a 5.5 NCX. He changed to a 5.8 Wingsail and it was clearly more in control - here's the video of both sails taken 10min apart.
Sure here we go, Luke , on my video was riding his 4 meter sail he was fully powered but slower than wing , than he took 5.8 wing and was surprised with wing 's stability and speed, than he hooked wing to his own board that he was using on 4 meter sail that day and he said that board become stable and fast. After, he posted review on MW sails site. Luke is real person and he have account on Facebook.
Is this good enough?
Luke reckons he went from his 4.0 to your 5.8. Well fkn yayyy!!! for Luke.
That's great but if I am on my 4.0 wavesail, I can almost go to a 5.8 full cambered race sail. A slight wind drop and I could claim it easily.
SO NO YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED that question.
What wind strength, what sail was he on (and video of it) , then he changed to your sail, was the wind the same?
You have just said he changed sail and it was good. Maybe he had an over downhauled, over outhauled 4m wave sail (which would be twitchy as hell) then went to your sail just as the wind happened to ease a little. No video of before the sail change...?
How would we know if the wind was the same? All Luke says is he was on a 4 and he sailed your 5.8 and it was nice.
Well gee whizz.....
THEN you need to have multiple examples of it working (for multiple people who are very proficient sailors)
Example - today I sailed on a 5.8 NP Atlas (wave sail) and it was perfect. (yes, really I did! just happens to be same size as your magic sail)
But then the wind dropped a tiny bit, I reckon in a more stable freeride sail I could easily have sailed a 7m and just gone blasting BAF,
I could video that and say the 7m is so much better than the 5.8. And claim it must have the wind range much greater than the 5.8.
But the video would not show before and after, nor the wind strength, nor the fact I was wave riding on sail #1 but then changed style to just blasting for sail #2. Plus it would be just one guy saying it, and everyone thinks I am full of crap.
So no, it is not good enough. Luke must like his free sail though.
The person making the extraordinary claim needs extraordinary proof. We are not being cruel, just wisely prudent. You show proof, people will buy. (one guy is not proof)
You just tell everyone its great, they will question (and slam u online)
There is a lots of information and clues about my sail on my videos, if you know what to look for. But if you need someone, who you like, to tell you in simple words is it good or not, I guess you just have to wait. By the way Luke was demo sail while I was waiting in the water holding his gear.
Select to expand quoteMWsails said..
Ok Chriss, may be you can explain others why do they need change sail every 6 kt wind increase?
Just FYI ....They really don't. Maybe in the 80's we did but not now. Even with 3 batten wave sails.
All major sail manufacturers have a variety/line of sails for different purposes. Wave; freeride; bump and jump; freestyle; kids/beginner and race (slalom, formula and speed). In each category, there are a number of sails for various conditions (wave sail wind directions) or cost points for novices, intermediates and experts. This has nothing to do with wind speeds / range of use.
The challenge/difficulty for the wingsail is that even if it is the best at what it does, and we are not sure exactly what that may be just yet, its target market is somewhat limited by what it can do and its price point. If it does have a broad wind range, the cost may be justified since the sailor may not need as many sails, but wave, freestyle and race sailors will likely NOT be too interested.
I have wave, freeride and race sails and they each have their pros and cons. Each works well for the discipline that it was designed for, but cross over to another discipline has it downside, some great, some not so much.
For example, my race sails are very stable in a broader wind range than my other sails, but they are heavy & don't luff well = more difficult to jibe, water start, uphaul, or even carry to the water. For racing, the pros outweigh the negatives, for freeriding, the negatives outweigh the pros.
For the wingsail, all of these issues will be a challenge, but innovation is always good, but no always successful.
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..MWsails said..
Ok Chriss, may be you can explain others why do they need change sail every 6 kt wind increase?
Just FYI ....They really don't. Maybe in the 80's we did but not now. Even with 3 batten wave sails.
I am in contact with racers who participate this year in PWA and luderitz . They say that they choose sail in 6 kt range. Also in real life on the beach we can see same. I dont know what you trying accomplish here , but your lies too primitive. Please come up with better stuff.
Select to expand quoteNCUSAGUY said..
All major sail manufacturers have a variety/line of sails for different purposes. Wave; freeride; bump and jump; freestyle; kids/beginner and race (slalom, formula and speed). In each category, there are a number of sails for various conditions (wave sail wind directions) or cost points for novices, intermediates and experts. This has nothing to do with wind speeds / range of use.
The challenge/difficulty for the wingsail is that even if it is the best at what it does, and we are not sure exactly what that may be just yet, its target market is somewhat limited by what it can do and its price point. If it does have a broad wind range, the cost may be justified since the sailor may not need as many sails, but wave, freestyle and race sailors will likely NOT be too interested.
I have wave, freeride and race sails and they each have their pros and cons. Each works well for the discipline that it was designed for, but cross over to another discipline has it downside, some great, some not so much.
For example, my race sails are very stable in a broader wind range than my other sails, but they are heavy & don't luff well = more difficult to jibe, water start, uphaul, or even carry to the water. For racing, the pros outweigh the negatives, for freeriding, the negatives outweigh the pros.
For the wingsail, all of these issues will be a challenge, but innovation is always good, but no always successful.
You probably misunderstand something. Thouse issues has been solved wth wing. Waterstart , easy jybe, wind range, and speed.
Select to expand quoteMWsails said..gorgesailor said..MWsails said..
Ok Chriss, may be you can explain others why do they need change sail every 6 kt wind increase?
Just FYI ....They really don't. Maybe in the 80's we did but not now. Even with 3 batten wave sails.
I am in contact with racers who participate this year in PWA and luderitz . They say that they choose sail in 6 kt range. Also in real life on the beach we can see same. I dont know what you trying accomplish here , but your lies too primitive. Please come up with better stuff.
Don't know why you are calling him a liar, nothing he said is primitive. I've been sailing since early '84, so you can call me a liar also, if that works for you, but the sail ranges today are so much better than those even from the 90's as well as the early 2000's.
It seems that the range of the sails gets better every year, as they should, and that can't be denied, only somebody ill informed, or a lair would say that isn't the case.
I think your sail needs to be represented by somebody else.
Select to expand quoteMastbender said..MWsails said..gorgesailor said..MWsails said..
Ok Chriss, may be you can explain others why do they need change sail every 6 kt wind increase?
Just FYI ....They really don't. Maybe in the 80's we did but not now. Even with 3 batten wave sails.
I am in contact with racers who participate this year in PWA and luderitz . They say that they choose sail in 6 kt range. Also in real life on the beach we can see same. I dont know what you trying accomplish here , but your lies too primitive. Please come up with better stuff.
Don't know why you are calling him a liar, nothing he said is primitive. I've been sailing since early '84, so you can call me a liar also, if that works for you, but the sail ranges today are so much better than those even from the 90's as well as the early 2000's.
It seems that the range of the sails gets better every year, as they should, and that can't be denied, only somebody ill informed, or a lair would say that isn't the case.
I think your sail needs to be represented by somebody else.
I did not call him a liar . He just said that rig doest'n need to be changed with wind. This is a lie.
