Nice to meet you Guys, I need to contact the distribution manager for Latin America of NSW. Might you help me?
Kitekeeper? anyone?
Thank you very much!
my mail: contacto@redpaddleco.cl
Select to expand quoteWillyWind said..
I always wondered why companies don't post much in windsurfing forums; I think the development of this thread explains it all.
Having worked in many industries, I quickly learned that everyone is an expert about businesses that most have never worked in. Possibly a strong example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. Above all, the average punter wants certainty in price, dims, delivery date, longevity etc... as can be witnessed in this thread. Although very appealing a newer, lighter, faster product is the very opposite of most of these factors and comes with the risk of compromise at one or multiple levels.
Example, just because you see an F1 car on the net doesn't mean its a good idea to own one. If you chose to own one, it will spend more time in the shop than being used and both activities will cost a fortune so you better be patient and have very deep pockets.
People pay a lot of money to be the cool kid on the block .
Whatever happened to THAT sail brand that was the best thing since sliced cheese . It was so much fun for a year , then nothin , zip , nada .
Totally forgot the name . People with brain cells will remember .
Select to expand quoteGwarn said..
This is what happens when you have a twin tip kiteboarder introducing the one and only product from North sails for windsurfing.
You can have the best product on the market but if your customer service and support is subpar then you're going to have a mediocre product.
So now this guy is going around to all his past duo tone dealers and attempting to get his product in their door and poach some of the market share. The smarter dealers will use it as a sales tool to push the duo tone membrane sails.
There is no special secret sauce it's just a membrane sail. It's already proven they have a short lifespan because you're sacrificing strength for weight and unfortunately North is it going to make theirs all black.
This is a very niche product for a niche market and since it actually carries the north sails boat sail logo I'm sure it's going to be priced accordingly over the top.
It would be interesting to hear an opinion from a real wave sailor in his 40s or 50s who has been sailing for decades if this sail actually made a difference performance-wise in his sessions versus cost and the short lifespan.
I'm not really one who likes to pay to become a beta tester. I'll stick to my ezzys sails and if I have a question or an issue arises I can send an email to dave ezzy himself and get a response back within a day.
This just an opinion from an old guy who buys windsurfing equipment.
In regard to above message... really mate?
You call yourself an "Old man that windsurf" so I'd assume you would be wiser after spending all that time out at sea, or at least be more respectful and/or give the benefit of the doubt and ask questions before shooting sentence about:
A) A person you know nothing about.
B) A product you have no idea about technology and manufacturing process.
I have windsurfed for ~15 years before changing to kitesurf, and at a pretty decent level too.
I think I understand windsurf?
Below, 16 years young me, circa 1998.
4.2 combat '93
253 Drops Wave Twin '92
For the rest as WillyWind pointed out, is a shame on how this post developed and made me realize why so many people warned me from posting on Seabreeze forum and about all the trolls and haters that join forces on anything that is new to their mind...disgraceful.
Good there are still few people actually excited to see something new to and willing to respect the fact I don't want to share inside information online....as they are going to be worldwide in a blink of an eye jeopardising my position... you people are the one we strive for.
funny stuff
If it's going to be released in a blink of an eye then why didn't you just wait and create a post that had all the necessary pertinent information.
But instead you come here posting a bunch of hype.
And then your panties get all in a bunch when people start criticizing the way you went about it.
thanks for my morning laugh
Gwarn
Simply Disgraceful
Select to expand quoteP.C_simpson said..
Windsurf market isn't ready for these, I cant imagine these sails will be cheap, people complain about sale prices already, also what happens when you damage one? i'm sure local sailmakers wont have a clue how to repair them or even get the material to repair them.
We might see them on a speed coarse but that probably will be the only place for a long time.
Repair with duct tape
.
Just rigged The wave 4,7.
Weight around 2,3 kg.
Info: northwindsurfing.com
Rigged on a Simmer 370 rdm mast
Select to expand quoteol4t said..
Just rigged The wave 4,7.
Weight around 2,3 kg.
Info: northwindsurfing.com
Rigged om a Simmer rdm mast
thanks for posting those images and the mast information!
by the looks of the main panel seems like Simmer's bend curve isn't quite right for the sail?
Select to expand quoteWindFlyer said..ol4t said..
Just rigged The wave 4,7.
Weight around 2,3 kg.
Info: northwindsurfing.com
Rigged om a Simmer rdm mast
thanks for posting those images and the mast information!
by the looks of the main panel seems like Simmer's bend curve isn't quite right for the sail?
Or maybe not enough down haul? My $300 (on sale) Aerotech Phantom 4.5 has a crease between the 1-2 batten, and a small crease between the 2-3 batten, when rigged right for me.
Select to expand quoteWindFlyer said..ol4t said..
Just rigged The wave 4,7.
thanks for posting those images and the mast information!
by the looks of the main panel seems like Simmer's bend curve isn't quite right for the sail?
I Think it might work.
When The sail get loaded up The wrinkles almost disappear.
Just added another pic.
I might add some more down haul
Oh wow ... the difference in the feel from my Superhero to my M+ was pretty amazing with a 350g saving! .. then imagine the feel with a saving of 750g! Holy Guacamole!
Duotone Superhero 4.7M = 3.10kg
Duotone SuperHero M+ 4.7M = 2.75kg
North Wave 4.7M = 2.35kg
North website is poorly designed by the way.
What is the weight of the masts? Bit hard to find.
Why have expand/collapse sections, when the section is only about 3 lines of detail? Just adds complexity.
Why is the detail section in black fill and the other sections are in white fill? Such a confusing design.
North are not the most helpful manufacturer ... DuoTone publish a compatibility to help you use other brands of masts ....
Can I use mast X, Y or Z with my new North Sail?
Yes you can, we can't stop you. However, if you want to maximize the performance of your sail, and replicate what was designed in the first place, the best choice is the manufacturer's recommended mast around which the sail has been designed, for any windsurf brand.
Select to expand quoteol4t said..
Just rigged The wave 4,7.
Weight around 2,3 kg.
Info: northwindsurfing.com
Rigged on a Simmer 370 rdm mast
Wow! The surface of the the sail looks amazing, but those vertical ripples don't look too good. Is it the Simmer mast? The ripples seem to be there even in North videos, might go away under tension? Still ... so much for laminar flow ... and too bad the window is sawed in, it looks kind of out of place with the rest of the sail ...
I'm not feeling that window position at all, tiny and really far back. Good for a looksee before a gybe but otherwise not useful.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said...
Or maybe not enough down haul? My $300 (on sale) Aerotech Phantom 4.5 has a crease between the 1-2 batten, and a small crease between the 2-3 batten, when rigged right for me.
Now with 1 cm more down haul.
Select to expand quoteol4t said..
Now with 1 cm more down haul.
Man that'd be great if the blue lines were a little higher so they lined up with the floppy leech for dumdums like me.
Select to expand quote
Or maybe not enough down haul?
not sure that is the answer, actually.
from the pictures it looks to me like one of the classic mast bend curve incompatibility cases.
more specifically, top too flexy, bottom too hard for the sailSelect to expand quoteol4t said..
Now with 1 cm more down haul.
that kind of fallaway of the leech looks a tad excessiveSelect to expand quoteduzzi said..
Is it the Simmer mast? The ripples seem to be there even in North videos, might go away under tension?
the incompatible mast would be my guess. Simmer runs toward flex top; sail looks like it'd be happier with a different bend curve (could be constant curve, hard top, or soft bottom).
the ripples on the north video with the sail in that position don't concern me. given the characteristics of the material that should smooth out quickly and easily once the sail is set in sailing position and it inflates.
at any rate, i should be getting my hands on a test model (with mast) soon so i can check all those things out myself.
Select to expand quoteAUS4 said..
Boh ... maybe I don't understand but shouldn't a sail be nice and smooth instead of having deep vertical creases though its main panel (and above)? There have to be consequences for a sail surface that looks like a corrugated sheet of plastic. The NS below is a nice looking sail, North 3Di sailboard sails look great ... the NS 3DI shown above ... mah ...
Select to expand quoteAUS4 said..
Just curious if this was the product (similar of course) you tried looong time ago?
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..WindFlyer said..ol4t said..
Just rigged The wave 4,7.
Weight around 2,3 kg.
Info: northwindsurfing.com
Rigged om a Simmer rdm mast
thanks for posting those images and the mast information!
by the looks of the main panel seems like Simmer's bend curve isn't quite right for the sail?
Or maybe not enough down haul? My $300 (on sale) Aerotech Phantom 4.5 has a crease between the 1-2 batten, and a small crease between the 2-3 batten, when rigged right for me.
Still on Simmer 370 rdm mast. The wrinkles disappear when sailing. Light Wind today, so 11 yo kid (36 kg) is sailing.
Couple of thoughts about the wrinkles in the sail part of this conversation.
Firstly, this all sounds too familiar. When loose leach sails first came into being, lots of folk assumed it was all wrong by the way it looks on the beach compared to conventional sails of the time. For those of us who were fortunate enough to be involved in the R&D, we'd simply smile sailing away at greater average speeds with handling we'd not previously experienced. Equally, corrugations in front of the window zone is a relatively new, but not brand new, feature to wave sails. The Hot Sails KS3s I've owned have all had substantial amounts of wrinkles, shape, corrugation... in between the lower battens. It is a feature to assist with the performance of the sail filling and flattening as the power is delivered or released. My newer Severne Blades have a similar feature although to a far lesser degree. Both models of sail perform very well as wave sails regardless of how they look in a neutral state. Different masts will no doubt affect all of this and would also suggest that the race sails would be different again.
Secondly, it looks like the window is created using a secondary process by laying/connecting a flat panel into a pre-cast shape. Whenever a light, stiff 3D panel has a hole cut into it, tension is released making weird shapes around the perimeter of the cut. With the tech & resources that North Sails have have at their disposal, I doubt this would have been unknown. I'd suggest it was probably used to advantage to support the filing/depowering described above.
Personally, I don't really care too much about what a product is supposed to look like. Function will always override aesthetics or tradition.
These guys are quick to respond and very forthcoming with info on mast curve unlike my current most loved Australian windsurf brand
with that said, I think these are very specific and not a good match with most other brands but I'm all for having more CST/Slake built masts
I'm always happy to give something else a go so how about providing some demo versions for trial? I'm really happy with my Lofts but if there is something that outperforms them let's put some out there for people to try! The cost of switching to another brand is substantial and to do it cause they look kinda cool is not enough for me.
Select to expand quoteF2k2 said..
These guys are quick to respond and very forthcoming with info on mast curve unlike my current most loved Australian windsurf brand
thanks for posting that info!
super valuable.
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..
I'm always happy to give something else a go so
for free, probably everyone is happy to try ...
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..
I'm always happy to give something else a go so how about providing some demo versions for trial? I'm really happy with my Lofts but if there is something that outperforms them let's put some out there for people to try! The cost of switching to another brand is substantial and to do it cause they look kinda cool is not enough for me.
Hi mate,
That's the spirit, I am all to let people try these and leave the final decision to the end consumer instead of just hoping the right marketing will make the job as lots out there do.
Where are you located and are you after the foil model...by the look of you profile pic?!?
I'd be happy to connect with you and see if we can arrange something demo in the future.
Select to expand quoteBrent in Qld said..
Couple of thoughts about the wrinkles in the sail part of this conversation.
Firstly, this all sounds too familiar. When loose leach sails first came into being, lots of folk assumed it was all wrong by the way it looks on the beach compared to conventional sails of the time. For those of us who were fortunate enough to be involved in the R&D, we'd simply smile sailing away at greater average speeds with handling we'd not previously experienced. Equally, corrugations in front of the window zone is a relatively new, but not brand new, feature to wave sails. The Hot Sails KS3s I've owned have all had substantial amounts of wrinkles, shape, corrugation... in between the lower battens. It is a feature to assist with the performance of the sail filling and flattening as the power is delivered or released. My newer Severne Blades have a similar feature although to a far lesser degree. Both models of sail perform very well as wave sails regardless of how they look in a neutral state. Different masts will no doubt affect all of this and would also suggest that the race sails would be different again.
Secondly, it looks like the window is created using a secondary process by laying/connecting a flat panel into a pre-cast shape. Whenever a light, stiff 3D panel has a hole cut into it, tension is released making weird shapes around the perimeter of the cut. With the tech & resources that North Sails have have at their disposal, I doubt this would have been unknown. I'd suggest it was probably used to advantage to support the filing/depowering described above.
Personally, I don't really care too much about what a product is supposed to look like. Function will always override aesthetics or tradition.
Well ... of course you need to see the sail in action, my slalom sails look like crap on the beach, and I owned Hot Sails KS3 and used for a few weeks Firelight 2018 that indeed had, small by comparison, vertical corrugations on the leading edge. Yes, the sails de-powered well ... and powered very sluggishly. So yes those vertical ripples in the panel might be a design feature for a pure wave sail, that is supposed to disappear in transitions. But unless aerodynamics are an opinion, they will influence the take up of the sail in conditions that are less than optimal. I would hesitate to buy unless I was doing only waves in some great location.
I asked 3 different retailers from the North website [USA] about the availability and timeline. Only one even knew that they are dealer and knew nothing about the sails.
I don't see this with in the next couple years here in the US if at all ever as it getting harder to get mainstream products let alone a niche like this.
I dont get all the angry ill informed commentary.
The sails look sick and the shape looks insanely good. Really happy to see north back.
