I really enjoy my Windsurfer LT but often wonder if a longboard with foot straps could be more enjoyable in planning conditions?
A few times over chop while planing I have wondered if straps would feel more comfortable and in control. Not having had much time planning on a shortboard in straps i can't really compare the two. Does anyone have experience with any of these long boards and how do they compare to LT?
RRD Longrider, not available in Aus?
Kona One Longboard, can you still get these?
Older longboard, Mistral Equipe, Fanatic Ultra/Mega Cat
Mainly wondering if any of these have better planning abilities than the LT? Im thinking the LT can't be beaten in light winds and sailing upwind with dagger down and the regatta sail?
Not sure why they didn't include footstraps on the LT like the Japanese Windsurfer Ultralight of the 90s:
Hard to go past a raceboard for comfort and control in a wide range of wind and sea states which is why raceboards are a good choice for cruising / voyaging.
Just the occasional white cap. That looks like about 10 knots of wind or less. That thing is slipping along pretty quickly at 2x wind speed.
I have not sailed the LT but I have a Kona a Phantom 320 raceboard, and had a Exocet 380 Raceboard (65 cm wide), so may be I can give you some info for the comparison.
I love the Kona and I'll always have one.
Nothing compares a full on 380 Raceboard railing upwind in the beating straps but the Kona is much easier to sail and enjoy overall. With the footstraps it planes and jibes shortboard-like (slower, of course). And you can waterstart it easily with more rounded and thinner rails vs a Raceboard. 70cm wide is quite stable in heavy seas/chop, but narrow enough not to bounce much when blasting. The daggerboard doesn?t protude the deck as in the raceboards so easier to sail in marginal conditions, where a daggerboard protuding sometimes interferes with the place you would like to position your feet.
And the new raceboards are so fragile that require lot's of dings/crack repairs. That's why I sold the Exocet 380 and bought a Phantom 320 tuffskin (also a little wider and easier to ride in the straps, but not as plug and play as the Kona). That?s the board I have in the sailing club in the Barcelona downtown, not as windy as my beach house, where I keep the Kona as a the lightwind board. Regarding fragility: if you can get a 2nd hand old raceboard with a working daggerboard and mast track you wouldn't have the problem.
The rig sizes of the Kona are bigger and monofilm-battened, so, performance wise, I imagine the Kona having an extra notch vs the LT. But the fleet cannot compare with the LT (only in Florida and in Scandinavia there are stablished Kona fleets)
About the availability of the Kona in Australia I cannot comment, but they are still manufactuing them (a hollow and 11kg version in the works)
Hope it helps!
Marc
Select to expand quote I used to enjoy sailing Raceboards and great video. Notice upwind the mast track is all the way forward, centre board down and with 9.5m he is on the rail using his 'beating straps' so in upwind mode.
Then later the mast track is fully back, centre board fully up and in the back straps planning fast like a slalom board so reaching mode.
After not sailing a long board for decades I got a Exocet windsup 11 8, same designer as kona one but wider, thinner and softer rails.
Like the kona one it's 'plug and play' and with the step tail design it means cetre board up then reaching in the straps without having a mast track to move. I use it at my local beach (500 m when I could sail a short board but don't want to drive to where its good) the wind is offshore and really gusty for 200 m so I can use the centre board down to sail back in.
Good luck ?
Select to expand quote515 said..I used to enjoy sailing Raceboards and great video. Notice upwind the mast track is all the way forward, centre board down and with 9.5m he is on the rail using his 'beating straps' so in upwind mode.
Then later the mast track is fully back, centre board fully up and in the back straps planning fast like a slalom board so reaching mode.
After not sailing a long board for decades I got a Exocet windsup 11 8, same designer as kona one but wider, thinner and softer rails.
Like the kona one it's 'plug and play' and with the step tail design it means cetre board up then reaching in the straps without having a mast track to move. I use it at my local beach (500 m when I could sail a short board but don't want to drive to where its good) the wind is offshore and really gusty for 200 m so I can use the centre board down to sail back in.
Good luck ?
I have the 11' 8 Exocet windsup and it is fun when lit up with an appropriate fin. Don't have a clue how it compares to others, but it's a heavy board to lug around.
Select to expand quoteRoy1000 said..
Techno 293+ if u can count that as a long board , done 27+ knots
Sorry, I don't think that is a longboard. Reasons given: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Ezzy-Zephyr-search?page=1#lastpost
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..Roy1000 said..
Techno 293+ if u can count that as a long board , done 27+ knots
Sorry, I don't think that is a longboard. Reasons given: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Ezzy-Zephyr-search?page=1#lastpost
Bic Techno 293, RS-One, RSX, Glide, Phantom 295/299 etc are hybrid raceboards that comply with the old R300 Raceboard rule.
Generally the hybrid raceboards are around 3m long and underperform compared to "longboards" in displacement mode ( <10kns windspeed) because of less waterline length but can perform well in planning mode.
Current full list of WS approved boards can be found here:
d7qh6ksdplczd.cloudfront.net/sailing/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/23104337/WS-List_Raceboard2023.pdf
Select to expand quoteRoy1000 said..
Techno 293+ if u can count that as a long board , done 27+ knots
If it didn't have a mast track and footstraps you might call it a windsup but given it has those it is definitely at longboard.
Select to expand quotecammd said..Roy1000 said..
Techno 293+ if u can count that as a long board , done 27+ knots
If it didn't have a mast track and footstraps you might call it a windsup but given it has those it is definitely at longboard.
That would make a 1992 Mistral Shredder and a 1992 Mistral Screamer a longboard. I think that a Techno and the others mentioned just now are not true longboards. Infact short boards in the 1980s included boards of the length of those.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..cammd said..Roy1000 said..
Techno 293+ if u can count that as a long board , done 27+ knots
If it didn't have a mast track and footstraps you might call it a windsup but given it has those it is definitely at longboard.
That would make a 1992 Mistral Shredder and a 1992 Mistral Screamer a longboard. I think that a Techno and the others mentioned just now are not true longboards. Infact short boards in the 1980s included boards of the length of those.
I assumed we were talking about contemporary boards.
Select to expand quotecammd said..RichardG said..cammd said..Roy1000 said..
Techno 293+ if u can count that as a long board , done 27+ knots
If it didn't have a mast track and footstraps you might call it a windsup but given it has those it is definitely at longboard.
That would make a 1992 Mistral Shredder and a 1992 Mistral Screamer a longboard. I think that a Techno and the others mentioned just now are not true longboards. Infact short boards in the 1980s included boards of the length of those.
I assumed we were talking about contemporary boards.
Even the word contemporary lacks precision as the earlier mentioned boards are still contemporary and many exist even today even though made in the 1990s. Now Techno is a totally different style of board to the LT for sure and not a true longboard while it may be a hybrid race/slalom board. Now modern boards are getting even shorter so all is relative and not helpful.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..cammd said..RichardG said..cammd said..Roy1000 said..
Techno 293+ if u can count that as a long board , done 27+ knots
If it didn't have a mast track and footstraps you might call it a windsup but given it has those it is definitely at longboard.
That would make a 1992 Mistral Shredder and a 1992 Mistral Screamer a longboard. I think that a Techno and the others mentioned just now are not true longboards. Infact short boards in the 1980s included boards of the length of those.
I assumed we were talking about contemporary boards.
Even the word contemporary lacks precision as the earlier mentioned boards are still contemporary and many exist even today even though made in the 1990s. Now Techno is a totally different style of board to the LT for sure and not a true longboard while it may be a hybrid race/slalom board. Now modern boards are getting even shorter so all is relative and not helpful.
anyway if it hasn't got a mast track its not a true longboard, for example how do alter trim for different points of sail on a windsup.
I wouldn't consider the below a longboard, its a windsup there's a difference IMHO, longboards have a track and straps, simples
tahesport.com/au_tahe_en/11-6-breeze-sup-wind-rigid-composite-108842
Select to expand quotecammd said..RichardG said..cammd said..RichardG said..cammd said..Roy1000 said..
Techno 293+ if u can count that as a long board , done 27+ knots
If it didn't have a mast track and footstraps you might call it a windsup but given it has those it is definitely at longboard.
That would make a 1992 Mistral Shredder and a 1992 Mistral Screamer a longboard. I think that a Techno and the others mentioned just now are not true longboards. Infact short boards in the 1980s included boards of the length of those.
I assumed we were talking about contemporary boards.
Even the word contemporary lacks precision as the earlier mentioned boards are still contemporary and many exist even today even though made in the 1990s. Now Techno is a totally different style of board to the LT for sure and not a true longboard while it may be a hybrid race/slalom board. Now modern boards are getting even shorter so all is relative and not helpful.
anyway if it hasn't got a mast track its not a true longboard, for example how do alter trim for different points of sail on a windsup.
I wouldn't consider the below a longboard, its a windsup there's a difference IMHO, longboards have a track and straps, simples
tahesport.com/au_tahe_en/11-6-breeze-sup-wind-rigid-composite-108842
That's a longboard.
Select to expand quoteIn reply to Cammd
"anyway if it hasn't got a mast track its not a true longboard, for example how do alter trim for different points of sail on a windsup"
Specifically the Kona one, Exocet windsup designs have a step tail. In displacement mode the longer tail gives you full water line length, when a gust comes kick up the centre board and the board plans on the shorter tail. It's really good when it's gusty compared to a raceboard as you don't need to adjust the mast track. It's never going to beat a Raceboard but it's fun to sail ?
It's not a slug, I've done 27 knots with a 5 battern 7.5m.
I guess "longboard" is broad term, if RichardG can consider a windsup a longboard than Roy1000, myself and the International Raceboard Class can consider a techno293 one as well. Sound Fair?
if it is over 230cm or it cant fit in the boot of your car with the seats down it is definitely a long board. also techno is really good you go almost 20knots upwind and up to 26 downwind. it can plane in about 8 knots with the 8.5 and 10 with the 7.8.
Select to expand quotecammd said..
I guess "longboard" is broad term, if RichardG can consider a windsup a longboard than Roy1000, myself and the International Raceboard Class can consider a techno293 one as well. Sound Fair?
As you wish it is not a term of precision. All boards have a length it is just that some boards are shorter than other boards.
LT may be the most versatile of current boards because of its stability and accessibility at subplaning speeds and as a teaching board for beginners. However there is no single area where another board wouldn't be better in some way. The original Superlight is far faster in light air and points much higher. Any real Raceboard starting with the second generation Equipe will be better in strong wind and in chop. The very best of the vintage race boards may be the Megacat which was also pretty stable. Of current boards the Kona Carbone is light, very ding-proof compared with other lightweight boards, reasonably stable and very very fast in a breeze. The daggerboard is of high quality although it's too small to outpoint a true Raceboard. The original CarbOne had a foot-operated track but I think the current one doesn't. Much more fun than the stock Kona but much more expensive.
Unless you're planning long crossings in open water -and don't want to learn to foil - I wouldn't try to improve on the longboard performance. Just stay with the LT and invest in an accessible shortboard 125-155 liters to go along with it.
I have had more than a few longboards that include.... D2's, lots of different raceboards old and new, techno293 and a few windsups. Currently I have a Starboard 2018 Phantom 377 and a 1999 Mistral Superlight 2.
Each to their own but for me the Mistral is the keeper for the long run, solid construction, versatile, a good racer and a good cruiser. If I could only own one board it would be the one.
I was curious and it looks like any phantoms left new are 6000usd. Did foiling just gut race boards? Such a shame.
Yes, why do longboards languish? I don't understand. In my experience, they are ALWAYS fun, and versatile. I am a hoarder of the classics - Equipe in both versions (have 4 total), Superlight and Superlight II, Ultra and Megacat. I long for a D2, but am in US. It seems to have been forgotten that in the mid-eighties the D2 was the fastest monohull sail craft around a triangular racecourse, bar none.
Anyway, to the original post about footstraps, they are mostly not needed. On all of my old boards I have applied EVA deck pads, and can rail the boards, am comfortable in most condition. Sure, when wind is over 15 knots or so, it would be nice to have "front" footstraps for downwind, but again, if not racing, not necessary.
I would dearly love to see plans or a kit (with parts like dagger board trunk) for a wooden D2 appear in the market.
My longboards are:
Windsurfer LT
Mistral Equipe 1.5 CHS 1993
Tiga Race Prestige 1989
F2 Lightning World Cup Race 1990.
All excellent but the LT gets the most use for racing and is an all around fun package. The other day at the Ledge to Lancelin we all turned up 5 or 6 of us for the daggerboard division, sadly the L2L race was cancelled due to lack of wind. The daggerboard division still could sail (while others remained beached), with some 4 keen Windsurfer LTs and one keen Mistral One Design (Atlanta 1994-96 model) headed out for a sail joined by a Naish SUP (under paddle) ridden by who I believe was the visiting Victorian victorian sailor Cato, a really nice guy and a SUP wave rider exponent. A lot of fun was had by the LT sailors in mucking about in the 3-5 knot winds and doing LT wavesailing in the reefs off Ledge Point. A bit more wind and it would have been wonderful. Thanks to Patrik Diethelm, WWA , volunteers and locals for organising the event at Ledge/Lancelin but we still had loads of fun, even though the race was cancelled, delivered to us by the LT. All boards are compromises but the LT is a very handy tool in the quiver and really can deliver fun in a cost effective simple package, one sail, one board, rider skill driven.
Select to expand quoteIt seems to have been forgotten that in the mid-eighties the D2 was the fastest monohull sail craft around a triangular racecourse, bar none.
Ummm, I love D2's and have owned a few in my time, but I'll trump your claim above with the International Canoe... 
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..
I was curious and it looks like any phantoms left new are 6000usd. Did foiling just gut race boards? Such a shame.
The trend for wider short boards did in the US. In the 90s, a typical quiver was a longboard, light wind freeride (both with 7.5s) and a high wind short board. A good longboard (e.g. Equipe II) would be one of the earliest to plane on the water. As shortboards edged towards 80cm wide and eventually 100cm with Formulas, unless you were racing, the motivation to own a shortboard dropped. They were cumbersome to store and transport; and if your time was limited, you wanted to spend the time on the water planing.
None of this is a dismissal of longboards. I own two - oh crap, just remembered - three. I still like to drag one out for the local races if they are in light wind. After 25 yrs at it, I still suck at racing a longboard partly because I haven't owned a good longboard sail. Partly, I just have always sucked at it.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
...unless you were racing, the motivation to own a shortboard dropped. They were cumbersome ...
Oops, should have been "motivation to own a longboard dropped"
The windsurfing longboards you mentioned, such as the RRD Longrider and Kona One, are designed for planing in light wind conditions and are generally more stable and comfortable than shortboards. They also allow for more efficient upwind sailing with footstraps. However, they may not be as agile or responsive as a shortboard in choppy conditions.
The Mistral Equipe, Fanatic Ultra/Mega Cat, and other older longboards are also known for their planing ability and comfort, but their performance may not be as good as the newer designs.
Overall, it really depends on your specific preferences and sailing conditions. If you enjoy planing in light winds and want a more comfortable and stable ride, a longboard with footstraps could be a good option to consider. If you prefer more performance in choppy conditions, a shortboard may be a better choice.
