Select to expand quoteCJW said..
On the racing side of things, I personally race a windfoil because it's highly, technical in tuning terms, both foil and rig, requires a high degree of skill to be and the front of the fleet,
Foils are great, but there's no type of sailing craft that doesn't require a high degree of skill to be at the front of the fleet, unless you are talking about tiny classes.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..I just don't see it as being the best thing yet but it is certainly a great development.
How do you know it's not "the best thing yet" unless you're a proficient foiler?
I reckon foiling is a huge breakthrough in performance in;
Efficiency and speed in light winds on flat water.
Ability to ride even small mushy waves.
Downwind carving windswells.
Cranking tight turns.
Downwind & upwind angles - ability to explore.
Keeping Alzheimers at bay by processing in 3D 
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..RichardG said..I just don't see it as being the best thing yet but it is certainly a great development.
How do you know it's not "the best thing yet" unless you're a proficient foiler?
I reckon foiling is a huge breakthrough in performance in;
Efficiency and speed in light winds on flat water.
Ability to ride even small mushy waves.
Downwind carving windswells.
Cranking tight turns.
Downwind & upwind angles - ability to explore.
Keeping Alzheimers at bay by processing in 3D
Thats great. Glad to hear. Its a great development for me and its a huge breakthrough for you and if you think its the best thing yet, that is cool. You have invested significant time in gaining your high level of proficiency and much respect to you. We all have different viewpoints based on different levels of exposure and skill. That is just natural.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said.You have invested significant time in gaining your high level of proficiency and much respect to you. We all have different viewpoints based on different levels of exposure and skill. That is just natural.
Yeah, I've invested a lot of time, but it's been a joy. It's another advantage of foiling, 10-35 knots, always up on the foil, gusts and lulls. Never had a bad session.
Imagine if you were always continuously planing every session on a slalom or wave board
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..Yeah, I've invested a lot of time, but it's been a joy. It's another advantage of foiling, 10-35 knots, always up on the foil, gusts and lulls. Never had a bad session.
Imagine if you were always continuously planing every session on a slalom or wave board RichardG said.You have invested significant time in gaining your high level of proficiency and much respect to you. We all have different viewpoints based on different levels of exposure and skill. That is just natural.
Yeah, I've invested a lot of time, but it's been a joy. It's another advantage of foiling, 10-35 knots, always up on the foil, gusts and lulls. Never had a bad session.
Imagine if you were always continuously planing every session on a slalom or wave board
It sounds like you are saying its the best thing yet.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..azymuth said..Yeah, I've invested a lot of time, but it's been a joy. It's another advantage of foiling, 10-35 knots, always up on the foil, gusts and lulls. Never had a bad session.
Imagine if you were always continuously planing every session on a slalom or wave board RichardG said.You have invested significant time in gaining your high level of proficiency and much respect to you. We all have different viewpoints based on different levels of exposure and skill. That is just natural.
Yeah, I've invested a lot of time, but it's been a joy. It's another advantage of foiling, 10-35 knots, always up on the foil, gusts and lulls. Never had a bad session.
Imagine if you were always continuously planing every session on a slalom or wave board
It sounds like you are saying its the best thing yet.
Why ruined? Foiling is like love! You cannot go wrong adding love to your life!!!!! (Ok ... I have been in California for too long).
Select to expand quoteBoston! said..Paducah said.
On a foil, it's about 15-25 knots lost that are never regained.
With a foil, a planing jibe is a jibe you messed up.
15 -25kts faster than this? We can't all be in your league, Antoine.
i.e. get the balance wrong and your speed goes to zero. Full disclaimer: I only lose 15 knots in a blown jibe.
Thanks for asking for clarification in a friendly manner. thumbs-up.gif
Select to expand quoteduzzi said..RichardG said..azymuth said..Yeah, I've invested a lot of time, but it's been a joy. It's another advantage of foiling, 10-35 knots, always up on the foil, gusts and lulls. Never had a bad session.
Imagine if you were always continuously planing every session on a slalom or wave board RichardG said.You have invested significant time in gaining your high level of proficiency and much respect to you. We all have different viewpoints based on different levels of exposure and skill. That is just natural.
Yeah, I've invested a lot of time, but it's been a joy. It's another advantage of foiling, 10-35 knots, always up on the foil, gusts and lulls. Never had a bad session.
Imagine if you were always continuously planing every session on a slalom or wave board
It sounds like you are saying its the best thing yet.
Why ruined? Foiling is like love! You cannot go wrong adding love to your life!!!!! (Ok ... I have been in California for too long).
Actually, I would say that may be your Italian heritage talking...
Select to expand quoteIan K said..Grantmac said..
turns can be carved without losing energy.
Decades of striving to perfect energy conservation gone to waste! Turning a slapper requires more attention to fore and aft trim than turning a foil board. (Not that I can do it yet, I'm in theory mode). If trim is too far rearward or forward for a fraction of a second at any of a dozen stages during a slapper gybe, that's 2 to 3 knots lost never to be regained. It all adds up, you exit at a dribble wondering where exactly you went wrong.
Trim too far back on a foil, you rise, converting kinetic energy to potential energy, realising your mistake you trim forward and get it all back again. Too easy
Can someone translate this
I have tried foiling a couple of times and experienced the moment when in switching back to a fin everything seems a bit like hard work ( albeit in marginal conditions). This made me wonder whether foiling may come to dominate freeride windsurfing. I however am probably to old to throw away all those years of honing my skills on a finned board. Multifinned waveboards definitely have replaced the single fin and I don't think the advantage was as clear cut.
Select to expand quoteforceten said..Ian K said..Grantmac said..
turns can be carved without losing energy.
Decades of striving to perfect energy conservation gone to waste! Turning a slapper requires more attention to fore and aft trim than turning a foil board. (Not that I can do it yet, I'm in theory mode). If trim is too far rearward or forward for a fraction of a second at any of a dozen stages during a slapper gybe, that's 2 to 3 knots lost never to be regained. It all adds up, you exit at a dribble wondering where exactly you went wrong.
Trim too far back on a foil, you rise, converting kinetic energy to potential energy, realising your mistake you trim forward and get it all back again. Too easy
Can someone translate this
Most of my foiling gybe attempts end as failed backloops
Another day, another thread hijacked by a bloody LT sailor. They're getting as bad as kite surfers..
We get it you're old and you like to go slow.. 
Select to expand quoteMaddlad said..
Another day, another thread hijacked by a bloody LT sailor. They're getting as bad as kite surfers..
We get it you're old and you like to go slow..
Matt, I think foiling is cool but it is not necessarily guaranteed all of those at the top or bottom of windsurfing will get into it. Phil McGain at the top, admitted yesterday he has never foiled yet. It is not because he likes to go slow but because he has other things to do. Phil might be sailing the unspeakable raceboard at the Perth worlds in 2020. Cheers mate
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..RichardG said..I just don't see it as being the best thing yet but it is certainly a great development.
How do you know it's not "the best thing yet" unless you're a proficient foiler?
There are a huge amount of things that people aren't proficient at, that they can still say aren't the best thing yet. For example, there are plenty of windsurfers who aren't proficient at racing a Lechner who will say that Lechner sailing is "not the best thing yet". There are many people who have never been proficient at racing an RSX who say it's "not the best thing yet".
Select to expand quoteThere are a huge amount of things that people aren't proficient at, that they can still say aren't the best thing yet.
Yes I agree with that. But the point I am trying to make is that foiling is the best thing yet. It is not just a little bit different it is something else altogether. I encourage any competent windsurfer to give it a try. I accept that it is not for everybody, but I believe the vast majority will not look back.
Well, for me it was the best thing that could happen. I only started windsurfing like two years ago. I made some good progress in the first few months, but got stuck last summer as I was slogging around with my 8.2 sail all summer. Learning to get into footstraps was impossible due to the lack of wind, not even thinking of water starting. Two things that got me back on track: A windsurf clinic with Jim Hall early in the year and the addition of a foil to my quiver. I learned to get in the straps due to the early planing with the foil. I gained so many more reasonable sessions with the foil, just awesome. We are a situated a fair bit off the coast and our regular wind is around 10-16 knots and not very consistent. I do get more fun out of almost every session than most of the fin-surfing guys who use much bigger gear. My biggest sail is a 6.4 Ezzy Zeta and I enjoy the easy handling. The only downside: I didn't get to paddle my SUP boards, as it almost always is enough wind to go windfoiling :-). There was much more action on the water this summer than the last year, most of the time there are more foilers than fin-surfers. We have more than twenty guys in our club with own foils and the numbers are getting up rather quickly. Probably one of the first windsurfing clubs in Germany with a club-owned foilboard and foil and organizing foil-camps every year. Especially for us heavy guys windfoiling is a really great thing.
best regards, David
Select to expand quoteazymuth said..
reckon foiling is a huge breakthrough in performance in;
... Keeping Alzheimers at bay by processing in 3D
Absolutely! Best part is it's friendly to aging bodies (at least once you're past the initial crash phase).
Another day, another thread hijacked by another bloody aged foil sailor. They're getting as bad as kite surfers..
We get it you're old and you like to elevate on the foil..the foil is good as Lorenzos oil for the old.
It's just opened up more options,, same as the LT.
I can't see how it's ruined anything
Select to expand quotehoop said..
It's just opened up more options,, same as the LT.
I can't see how it's ruined anything
I would agree its another option in the windsurfer's arsenal.
Large fleet course every weekend racing, slalom and freestyle or national and international events go for that longboard you mentioned or another raceboard.
Foil where it takes your fancy , free foil in the waves and hopefully race the foil if there are events for them on any given weekend. Nothing has been ruined at all.
There is also wavesailing too which is probably the pinnacle of windsurfing if you have waves at hand.
Slalom and speed boards good too if you like that stuff.
Robby says it all in this video but he doesn't say foiling is the best rather he talks positively about the Olympic windfoil and he does mention positively the Windsurfer LT longboard and other light wind options etc which are accessible. The high profile the windsurfing is getting at the Aloha Classic with Mercedes etc and the extreme sport nature of slalom, speed and waves etc. The biggest news is that he will fully push into windsurfing again as he has just signed 2 new riders, which will also be announced very soon. Clearly he sees growth down that way or at least he is pushing it with a broad product mix with accessibility at the heart to get people into and on his gear. He must see there is a distinct possibility that SUP and Kite ( a big part of his sales) as declining in the cycle although he doesn't say it. He may be hedging.
Select to expand quotetbwonder said..There are a huge amount of things that people aren't proficient at, that they can still say aren't the best thing yet.
Yes I agree with that. But the point I am trying to make is that foiling is the best thing yet. It is not just a little bit different it is something else altogether. I encourage any competent windsurfer to give it a try. I accept that it is not for everybody, but I believe the vast majority will not look back.
Perhaps, but as others say it depends on what type of windsurfing you like, and why. I've almost never done the sort of back-and-forth freeriding or slalom sailing that many people like and where foiling may excel, because it just doesn't interest me enough.
It's interesting to see that people have said a lot of the same sort of things about Formula, widestyle boards, shortboards, slalom boards, "funboards", etc. There's a huge amount of subjectivity in what we all like in sport, and it seems that sometimes people will hate at something one day and then love something very similar the next day or vice versa.
For example, plenty of people have spent plenty of time saying that modern freeride, slalom and B & J gear is just amazingly good, and that using it was fantastic. Now we have people saying that the same gear is "draggy", "inefficient", "sluggish" and generally ****. But if a certain board had a drag of "X" newtons in 2017, it still has the same drag in 2019. If it was great in 2017 then it is not crappy in 2019; the wind and water have not been rebuilt over the last couple of years. The board and sail is still producing exactly the same speed and performance that people raved about two summers ago, so to say that the gear cannot produce exactly the same joy that it did then isn't very logical.
We all love different things. Some love the sheer silent efficiency of foiling, and that's great. Some of us don't particularly like sheer silent efficiency - we go on the water to feel the slap of the waves, the hiss of the wake, the patter of the spray. It's interesting to see that the boat classes that have adopted foiling haven't really grown very much in absolute terms, and despite an incredible amount of hype and hundreds of millions being thrown at foiling sailboats the top-selling classes are "seahuggers".
If people love it, that's great, but that doesn't mean that it's the best thing yet.
Select to expand quotehoop said..
It's just opened up more options,, same as the LT.
I can't see how it's ruined anything
Yep agree, had my youngest and his mate trying out the foil I bought this week, they seemed pretty stoked, his comment was he can't wait for school holidays now to go sailing with the foil. I'm happy with that, keeps him off the xbox.
Agree with Chris as well, is it the best thing, that would be a big call. The clamp on boom was a pretty good innovation, imagine sailing foils with a boom that wobbled and slipped everywhere.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..Perhaps, but as others say it depends on what type of windsurfing you like, and why. I've almost never done the sort of back-and-forth freeriding or slalom sailing that many people like and where foiling may excel, because it just doesn't interest me enough.
I see foiling as the 5th windsurf category that adds to waves, freeride/B&J, slalom/race/speed and freestyle.
Who cares if it's the best. Each to their own
I reckon foiling adds 3 profound awesome new experiences to windsurfing;
Efficient, fast, fun light wind sailing in 8-14 knots.
Super fun downwind carving on windswells and easy upwind sailing at amazing angles.
Fun in mushy or unbreaking waves that are unrideable with wave boards.
you could hardly call sailing upwind or going fast in 8-14knts a profound new experience to the sport. formula has been going fast in 8-14 for 20 years and centreboard classes have been going upwind since the beginning.
Select to expand quotecammd said..
you could hardly call sailing upwind or going fast in 8-14knts a profound new experience to the sport. formula has been going fast in 8-14 for 20 years and centreboard classes have been going upwind since the beginning.
I think its the speed at which you can go upwind, 10 to 12 knots of wind and you can go 18 to 20 knots upwind
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..I think its the speed at which you can go upwind, 10 to 12 knots of wind and you can go 18 to 20 knots upwindcammd said..
you could hardly call sailing upwind or going fast in 8-14knts a profound new experience to the sport. formula has been going fast in 8-14 for 20 years and centreboard classes have been going upwind since the beginning.
I think its the speed at which you can go upwind, 10 to 12 knots of wind and you can go 18 to 20 knots upwind
Speed is relative to other vessels of the same or identical class. On the other hand foiling Moths, which will beat Windsurf foils around a course as I have seen, will reach 14 knots upwind and 20 knots downwind in just ten knots of wind, and in 20 knots of breeze they'll be cranking along at 17 knots upwind and 25-30 knots down. The figures you quote may not be accurate on the angles of the course. Foiling windsurfers are cool and awesome and I love that many are in love with foiling but they are not the fastest foiling craft around. Kitefoilers are also faster than windfoilers. All foiling sports are still minority sports in sailing. The biggest foiling one design class is the WASPZ which has at mid year just over 700 boats. During the 80's and 90's the Windsurfer Class grew massively with over 350,000 one design boards sold globally-is that not one of the, but not the only, best and greatest achievements ? The biggest sailing class ever. The LT has I expect over 1000 already since early 2018 and the Mistral One Design has over 30,000 since 1989. Whither the iFoil ?
Not sure you why you have to bring the LT into the discussion, especially when you look at the title of the original post. 
Select to expand quoteAUS 814 said..
Not sure you why you have to bring the LT into the discussion, especially when you look at the title of the original post
The craft you mentioned again is a windsurfing vehicle as is a foil. The answer can involve relativity to various windsurfing vehicles. Don't be so precious. Foiling is great, just get over it.
