Hi all,
I have decided to use the off-season to improve by balance. It's never been great, but after 40 years on a slapper I do alright. However, my futile efforts to perform a flying foiling jibe have convinced me I need to improve my balance. Any tips or ideas on drills and exercises any of you have used would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, and Merry Christmas and a happy 2021 to all,
Marc
I heard exercising on bosu (1/4 plates ball with platform) is good balance exercise.
Athletic posture.
Practice foiling with your feet close together
Time on water in controlled conditions.
I wish my slapper gybes were as good as my foiling ones!
Biggest recommendation is to SLOW DOWN on the foil. That and not accepting that an off season exists.
The best way to improve one's balance on foiling jibes is that which has been said many times - look up and out at the exit. If you look down, at the board nose, at your hands, at anything else, your brain has no way to figure out what level is. If you look at the exit, your monkey brain takes care of it all. This goes for any activity that involves "balance" - mtn biking, skiing or even walking on a log or curb as if it were a balance beam.
Most of us have sufficient balance to fly through a jibe. If you can walk down a sidewalk safely, I'd say that your balance skills are sufficient. Of course, there's no harm in any sort of balance activities or exercises but if you spend hours on a slack line and then still insist at looking at the nose of your board or hands through a foil jibe, your chances of swimming are still pretty good. 
Perhaps I understand where you're coming from better than others, since I have had quite a hard time learning the foil jibe, and also had the suspicion that my poor balance was part of the problem. I'd get dry but not foiled jibes sometimes, but whenever I stayed on the foil, I'd explode sooner or later.
A couple of days ago, I had the opportunity to take a private with an excellent foil instructor (Andy Brandt). He showed me a bunch of absolutely beautiful jibes, keeping perfectly even height (not a small feat on the 60 cm mast he was using). I tried to copy him, and he told me the specific things I needed to change.
The first one was to step very wide before starting to carve - the back foot goes close to the leeward rail. On my 85 cm wide board, it took me quite a few tries to step this wide. When I thought I stepped wide, I was later told I had barely crossed the center line. But between the feedback from crashing (or not) and what the instructor told me, there definitely was a large correlation between how wide I stepped, and how well it went. I eventually started to look down to make sure I stepped far enough.
The next thing was leaving the front arm long - fully extended (this is for a sail-first jibe, where you sail out switch). My natural instinct was to bend the arm and pull the sail towards me. Whenever I did that, the nose would go up, the foil would breach, and I would be in the water. Things got a lot better when I finally managed to leave the front arm fully extended while the sail rotated around the front. During the rotation, it is very important that the mast is vertical over the board, or leans to the inside of the turn a bit. If it gets away to the outside of the turn, you stop turning, and start crashing. If the mast is on the right place, you can push down on the boom to keep the nose down.
I ended up almost foiling through 3 jibes within an hour, which is much better than in previous sessions when I worked on jibes. The board touched down briefly, but I was right back up on the foil without pumping a second or two later. The GPS showed I kept ~ 7 knots of speed the entire time, which is above the stall threshold of the i84 foil I used. In at least one of the jibes, I did the foot switch while flying.
The interesting thing was that my "balance problems" completely disappeared. In the last jibe, I actually got the feeling that this might be as easy and uneventful as it looks when watching good foilers. The wide stance was definitely a key point. In other sports, wide stances are often used when stability is wanted (e.g. deep horse stance in karate, or watch some sumo wrestlers). There's different ways to jibe on a foil, but you'll find the same advice ("Back foot as far across your board as is practical") for the step jibe in berowne's post ("Foil Racing - Windfoil Gybe Technique").
Like was mentioned, BOSCU balance trainer standing on one foot, first on the flat side, and then on the round side, need to focus you eyes on a spot on the floor at first. Another good balance trainer is an Indo board, mimics the rocking back and forth you do in flight to keep the flight level, is Great for surfing and snowboarding too.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
The best way to improve one's balance on foiling jibes is that which has been said many times - look up and out at the exit. If you look down, at the board nose, at your hands, at anything else, your brain has no way to figure out what level is. If you look at the exit, your monkey brain takes care of it all. This goes for any activity that involves "balance" - mtn biking, skiing or even walking on a log or curb as if it were a balance beam.
Most of us have sufficient balance to fly through a jibe. If you can walk down a sidewalk safely, I'd say that your balance skills are sufficient. Of course, there's no harm in any sort of balance activities or exercises but if you spend hours on a slack line and then still insist at looking at the nose of your board or hands through a foil jibe, your chances of swimming are still pretty good.
This advice is pretty much spot on. All you need. Keep your eyes up and you will be fine.
Those balance trainers look like a passport to a fall followed by rehab and a season off sailing.
get a skinny sup and paddle it in rough water ,that will test and improve your balance ..my balance has improved out of sight with windsurfing ,after Surf SUPing lots ,i don't foil so can't comment there ..but trying my hardest to SUP foil ,like learning all over again ..
Crosstraining is overrated. The best way to improve a skill is to keep doing it.
The great thing about watersports is that when you fall, it's in the water. Crosstraining alternatives can leave you with broken bones.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..
Perhaps I understand where you're coming from better than others, since I have had quite a hard time learning the foil jibe, and also had the suspicion that my poor balance was part of the problem. I'd get dry but not foiled jibes sometimes, but whenever I stayed on the foil, I'd explode sooner or later.
A couple of days ago, I had the opportunity to take a private with an excellent foil instructor (Andy Brandt). He showed me a bunch of absolutely beautiful jibes, keeping perfectly even height (not a small feat on the 60 cm mast he was using). I tried to copy him, and he told me the specific things I needed to change.
The first one was to step very wide before starting to carve - the back foot goes close to the leeward rail. On my 85 cm wide board, it took me quite a few tries to step this wide. When I thought I stepped wide, I was later told I had barely crossed the center line. But between the feedback from crashing (or not) and what the instructor told me, there definitely was a large correlation between how wide I stepped, and how well it went. I eventually started to look down to make sure I stepped far enough.
The next thing was leaving the front arm long - fully extended (this is for a sail-first jibe, where you sail out switch). My natural instinct was to bend the arm and pull the sail towards me. Whenever I did that, the nose would go up, the foil would breach, and I would be in the water. Things got a lot better when I finally managed to leave the front arm fully extended while the sail rotated around the front. During the rotation, it is very important that the mast is vertical over the board, or leans to the inside of the turn a bit. If it gets away to the outside of the turn, you stop turning, and start crashing. If the mast is on the right place, you can push down on the boom to keep the nose down.
I ended up almost foiling through 3 jibes within an hour, which is much better than in previous sessions when I worked on jibes. The board touched down briefly, but I was right back up on the foil without pumping a second or two later. The GPS showed I kept ~ 7 knots of speed the entire time, which is above the stall threshold of the i84 foil I used. In at least one of the jibes, I did the foot switch while flying.
The interesting thing was that my "balance problems" completely disappeared. In the last jibe, I actually got the feeling that this might be as easy and uneventful as it looks when watching good foilers. The wide stance was definitely a key point. In other sports, wide stances are often used when stability is wanted (e.g. deep horse stance in karate, or watch some sumo wrestlers). There's different ways to jibe on a foil, but you'll find the same advice ("Back foot as far across your board as is practical") for the step jibe in berowne's post ("Foil Racing - Windfoil Gybe Technique").
Thanks for posting this. I'm learning to foil gybe right now. What is interesting is that most "fin" gybe tutorials are pretty much the same, but there doesn't appear to be a consensus about foil gybes. FWIW, flipping the rig first and a wide stance (by accident - I had intended to put my foot in the centre like a certain tutorial suggested, but went all the way across by habit) produced the best results.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
The best way to improve one's balance on foiling jibes is that which has been said many times - look up and out at the exit. If you look down, at the board nose, at your hands, at anything else, your brain has no way to figure out what level is. If you look at the exit, your monkey brain takes care of it all. This goes for any activity that involves "balance" - mtn biking, skiing or even walking on a log or curb as if it were a balance beam.
Most of us have sufficient balance to fly through a jibe. If you can walk down a sidewalk safely, I'd say that your balance skills are sufficient. Of course, there's no harm in any sort of balance activities or exercises but if you spend hours on a slack line and then still insist at looking at the nose of your board or hands through a foil jibe, your chances of swimming are still pretty good.
My yoga instructor told us to pick a spot on the ground in front of us to focus on when balancing in a tricky one legged pose, it really helped me. When I am on the water in 1-3' waves/swell and feel a little out of balance I look at the board to regain my balance, sometimes just a split second is all it takes.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..
What is interesting is that most "fin" gybe tutorials are pretty much the same, but there doesn't appear to be a consensus about foil gybes.
A lot of the foil jibe tutorials I have seen are on race gear or other fast foils. On those, you typically foils faster than the wind speed. But the sail first jibe with the sail just flagged out to the front requires that you are slower than the wind, so you have to flip the sail later (i.e. do a step jibe).
The instructor (Andy) who I had the luck to get a private with has probably taught foil jibes to hundreds of students, who pretty much all were on slower freeride gear. The typical wind speeds would be around 15 knots (and higher at some locations), with across-the-wind board speeds around 12 knots - so the sail-first jibe works. Andy is also very good to adjust his teaching based on how students learn, and fantastic about spotting the one thing to change that makes the most difference at any point in time. That said, I often interpret what he says differently from what he means, so watching him first makes it a lot easier to understand what he meant. I have asked him in the past why he teaches the step jibe for windsurfing, and his response was basically that it works in most conditions, and that students learn it fastest. I think he teaches the sail-first jibe for foiling for the very same reasons. If most of his students would show up on racing foils, he probably would be teaching foil jibes differently.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..Paducah said..
The best way to improve one's balance on foiling jibes is that which has been said many times - look up and out at the exit. If you look down, at the board nose, at your hands, at anything else, your brain has no way to figure out what level is. If you look at the exit, your monkey brain takes care of it all. This goes for any activity that involves "balance" - mtn biking, skiing or even walking on a log or curb as if it were a balance beam.
Most of us have sufficient balance to fly through a jibe. If you can walk down a sidewalk safely, I'd say that your balance skills are sufficient. Of course, there's no harm in any sort of balance activities or exercises but if you spend hours on a slack line and then still insist at looking at the nose of your board or hands through a foil jibe, your chances of swimming are still pretty good.
My yoga instructor told us to pick a spot on the ground in front of us to focus on when balancing in a tricky one legged pose, it really helped me. When I am on the water in 1-3' waves/swell and feel a little out of balance I look at the board to regain my balance, sometimes just a split second is all it takes.
There's an old saying in mtn biking: Where you look is where you go.
For jollies next time, instead of looking at a spot on the floor - try a spot on the wall. Same thing for windfoiling - spot the horizon rather than looking down at the nose of your board. I can't tell you how many newbies I've talked through those first few moments on a board when everything is shaking and they are staring down at the board or their hands and I get them to look out at the horizon. It's almost magical: the board stops shaking from them trying to balance.
Looking up and out gives your inner ear a common reference to match with what your eyes are seeing. The opposite of this is being on a boat in rough sees where you either look down or are inside the cabin and your mind can't visualize the horizon. The struggle between your inner ear and eyes is so violent that sea sickness can result. In rough seas, we'd minimized our time down in the cabin for this reason.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..boardsurfr said..
Perhaps I understand where you're coming from better than others, since I have had quite a hard time learning the foil jibe, and also had the suspicion that my poor balance was part of the problem. I'd get dry but not foiled jibes sometimes, but whenever I stayed on the foil, I'd explode sooner or later.
A couple of days ago, I had the opportunity to take a private with an excellent foil instructor (Andy Brandt). He showed me a bunch of absolutely beautiful jibes, keeping perfectly even height (not a small feat on the 60 cm mast he was using). I tried to copy him, and he told me the specific things I needed to change.
The first one was to step very wide before starting to carve - the back foot goes close to the leeward rail. On my 85 cm wide board, it took me quite a few tries to step this wide. When I thought I stepped wide, I was later told I had barely crossed the center line. But between the feedback from crashing (or not) and what the instructor told me, there definitely was a large correlation between how wide I stepped, and how well it went. I eventually started to look down to make sure I stepped far enough.
The next thing was leaving the front arm long - fully extended (this is for a sail-first jibe, where you sail out switch). My natural instinct was to bend the arm and pull the sail towards me. Whenever I did that, the nose would go up, the foil would breach, and I would be in the water. Things got a lot better when I finally managed to leave the front arm fully extended while the sail rotated around the front. During the rotation, it is very important that the mast is vertical over the board, or leans to the inside of the turn a bit. If it gets away to the outside of the turn, you stop turning, and start crashing. If the mast is on the right place, you can push down on the boom to keep the nose down.
I ended up almost foiling through 3 jibes within an hour, which is much better than in previous sessions when I worked on jibes. The board touched down briefly, but I was right back up on the foil without pumping a second or two later. The GPS showed I kept ~ 7 knots of speed the entire time, which is above the stall threshold of the i84 foil I used. In at least one of the jibes, I did the foot switch while flying.
The interesting thing was that my "balance problems" completely disappeared. In the last jibe, I actually got the feeling that this might be as easy and uneventful as it looks when watching good foilers. The wide stance was definitely a key point. In other sports, wide stances are often used when stability is wanted (e.g. deep horse stance in karate, or watch some sumo wrestlers). There's different ways to jibe on a foil, but you'll find the same advice ("Back foot as far across your board as is practical") for the step jibe in berowne's post ("Foil Racing - Windfoil Gybe Technique").
Thanks for posting this. I'm learning to foil gybe right now. What is interesting is that most "fin" gybe tutorials are pretty much the same, but there doesn't appear to be a consensus about foil gybes. FWIW, flipping the rig first and a wide stance (by accident - I had intended to put my foot in the centre like a certain tutorial suggested, but went all the way across by habit) produced the best results.
boardsurfr makes some good points - nailing a planing jibe requires you learn it helps greatly to do exactly as he describes: extended front arm and bending the knees to stay forward. Unfortunately, for a lot of foilers, it's easy to get out of the habit of doing both. In some ways a foiling jibe is a lot like a planing jibe but the learning process of foiling obscures it. I've seen foilers who've gotten used to having the rig close to them with an upright stance, keep the rig there through the jibe. And, certainly, the smoothness of the foil almost discourages bending the knees and applying forward pressure.
The wide step I suspect helps not only balance but encourages opening the rig enough. That's where the foil and planing jibe differ the most, imho, for the rec foiler. The rig really needs to open up and lacking the step forward of the step jibe, a lot of people (e.g. me) don't. Staying forward, stepping wide across and bending the knees all help that process. You can imagine that wider boards and bigger sails/longer booms require more attention to this.
Sebastien Kornum nailed it, imho, even in this old video around 3:43 when he talks about opening the sail on the jibe. Note that the video shows him stepping forward of the strap which I find to be a recipe for the board landing on the water every time. At 6:06, he does stay behind the strap by stepping straight into it.
I hadn't expected this thread to become so focused on foil jibes, but I find this extremely helpful. Thanks for these ideas so far. Please keep them coming. As Faff pointed out, there seems to be a wide difference of opinion on the technique, but lately I see more consensus on moving the rear foot all the way over to the inside rail for a wide stance. I'll focus on this when I'm on the water again.
A few years ago my balance started getting really bad, Im mean extremely bad, to the point of staggering side ways and falling over.
I had never had this problem before, scared the crap out of me to be honest, so went to the doctors to get it sussed out.
I spent a week getting scans, blood tests, etc. etc. etc.
They found nothing.
The strangest thing was my balance was really good most of the time and it was only failing me occasionally, which was a mystery to the so called "specialists".
Anyways the doc's asked me to keep a diary each day of what exercise I was doing, what I had eaten etc. to see if they could find some sort of link to what it was affecting my balance.
After 2 long months of keeping diary entries every day of my movements and diet I went back to the doc's to see if he could pin point what the balance issue was that was causing me to fall over.
After the specialist spent an hour reading my diary and jotting down notes he finally came across the reason of my occasional loss of balance.
Seemed it only happened on the days that I went to the pub at happy hour.
I hope after reading all of this it has helped you with your problem.
Glad to help.
Select to expand quotemarc5 said..
Any tips or ideas on drills and exercises any of you have used would be greatly appreciated.
I think it is called a balance board. Mine is circular with a hemisphere attached to the centre. Balance training involves keeping the edges off the ground.
I purchased the item from a physio site. They had different levels of difficulty. They certainly make you concentrate while you are trying to keep your balance.
I found with the BOSCU balance trainer, when on one foot, if I pick a spot 4-6' in front of me on the floor it helps a lot to stay balanced. But l also will look straight forward at a wall to keep my posture and head upright, that makes it much more difficult to stay balanced on one foot on the round side of the BOSCU trainer, but I can and do do it. On the INDO board I am always on both feet and then I look straight ahead no problem, and do not look at the floor. When I am on the water ( i.e., the board is on the water and not moving) in waves and I am just trying to maintain balance until I get the wind on the sail, then looking at the board, which is not moving relative to me, really helps to gain/maintain balance. But once moving on the water, or in the air, I do not look at the board, then I am looking at the water. I wanted to make that clarification for Paducah as well.
Select to expand quotehashbrown said..
Eight dollars from K Mart or Big W.
The cheaper ones may be too easy to balance. The one I have is very challenging and my 'athletic' friends are yet to master it. The curvature of the dome in the centre makes quite a difference. I have used the children's wobble board and they are not too difficult.
I found the following info online - "Balance boards (less commonly known as wobble boards) are all available with various degrees of tilt angle. They have a dome-shaped base which enables you tip and tilt the board 360 degrees. The use of a balance board can help to retrain your sense of balance after injury preventing further injury and ensuring a speedy return to sport. If the 360 degree movement of a balance board is too challenging consider a rocker board, rocker boards perform a similar role in exercise and rehabilitation but only allow tilting movement along one axis or direction making them significantly easier to use. Balance or wobble boards form a useful accompaniment to posture improvement, as well as abdominal and trunk strengthening and increasing tone in the quadriceps, hamstrings and calf muscles. Anyone who suffers from arthritic joints or who has undergone knee surgery (including cartilage and ligament operations) would benefit from using these boards to facilitate proprioceptive re-education. Many other exercises can also be carried out using balance boards including press-ups which help with shoulder stabilisation and strengthening." (www.physiosupplies.com/blog/ps/171/choosing-a-balance-board/)
Select to expand quoteMarkSSC said..hashbrown said..
Eight dollars from K Mart or Big W.
The cheaper ones may be too easy to balance. The one I have is very challenging and my 'athletic' friends are yet to master it. The curvature of the dome in the centre makes quite a difference. I have used the children's wobble board and they are not too difficult.
I found the following info online - "Balance boards (less commonly known as wobble boards) are all available with various degrees of tilt angle. They have a dome-shaped base which enables you tip and tilt the board 360 degrees. The use of a balance board can help to retrain your sense of balance after injury preventing further injury and ensuring a speedy return to sport. If the 360 degree movement of a balance board is too challenging consider a rocker board, rocker boards perform a similar role in exercise and rehabilitation but only allow tilting movement along one axis or direction making them significantly easier to use. Balance or wobble boards form a useful accompaniment to posture improvement, as well as abdominal and trunk strengthening and increasing tone in the quadriceps, hamstrings and calf muscles. Anyone who suffers from arthritic joints or who has undergone knee surgery (including cartilage and ligament operations) would benefit from using these boards to facilitate proprioceptive re-education. Many other exercises can also be carried out using balance boards including press-ups which help with shoulder stabilisation and strengthening." (www.physiosupplies.com/blog/ps/171/choosing-a-balance-board/)
Agree, use my Boscu trainer soft dome side up to retrain my knee after I shattered and dislocated the tibia head, works great for reducing micro-instability.
Select to expand quoteFaff said..
Crosstraining is overrated. The best way to improve a skill is to keep doing it.
The great thing about watersports is that when you fall, it's in the water. Crosstraining alternatives can leave you with broken bones.
Best way to improve is to STOP doing what doesn't work and experiment to find out what does. If you keep practicing touching down and swimming then you will get very good and it and still won't fly through a gybe. Use the correct equipment so to leave the answer is changing something that you are doing, so change something and find the flying gybe. Good luck. ps I don't fly my gybes yet.
Was paying attention last time out as to what I do to gain balance, as I said before I look at the board (nose mostly) when on the water and starting out in waves, but then I noticed even in-flight if I needed to regain balance I did it by looking at the board, but just for a split second, since that is all it takes for me to regain balance. And really, if I do not regain it right away I would crash when in-flight.
Select to expand quoteBSN101 said..Faff said..
Crosstraining is overrated. The best way to improve a skill is to keep doing it.
The great thing about watersports is that when you fall, it's in the water. Crosstraining alternatives can leave you with broken bones.
Best way to improve is to STOP doing what doesn't work and experiment to find out what does. If you keep practicing touching down and swimming then you will get very good and it and still won't fly through a gybe. Use the correct equipment so to leave the answer is changing something that you are doing, so change something and find the flying gybe. Good luck. ps I don't fly my gybes yet.
LoL, I wholeheartedly agree. Same deal for fin gybes. People who learn to muddle around their gybes are often happy enough to stay dry and never push themselves to learn to plane out. The problem with foil gybes is that they can be damn scary.
Still loving my long board skateboard i bought from the Severne shop. Ultra smooth and fast.
Only needs a small incline and away you go.
Fun way to improve your balance or shatter your kneecaps.
Select to expand quoteBSN101 said..
Best way to improve is to STOP doing what doesn't work and experiment to find out what does. If you keep practicing touching down and swimming then you will get very good and it and still won't fly through a gybe. Use the correct equipment so to leave the answer is changing something that you are doing, so change something and find the flying gybe. Good luck. ps I don't fly my gybes yet.
Very valid advice. Do the wrong thing for too long, and you'll develop the wrong "muscle memory" that really wants to stick around, even if you eventually learn the right way. I get reminded of that every time out on a slapper, where just a fraction of my jibes are decent, while most are as bad as they were in the decades before I finally planed through.
But there are a few caveats. One is that the "wrong" way may seem to work initially. That happened to me on the foil jibe when I tried to stand near the centerline, and planed (but not foiled) through my first tries. The next caveat is that you may change the wrong thing. After the first good tries, my very wrong "stay near the centerline" idea had me swimming almost every time. I changes a bunch of things but never how I stood at the beginning.
The final caveat is that it is very common to not do what we think we are doing. For example, I thought I was stepping very wide in my foil jibe private lesson, but still crashed. Sure enough, the instructor pointed out that I had barely moved my back foot. It took several tries to finally get over the old habits. Fortunately, this is easier to address that the other issues by using a GoPro.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..BSN101 said..
Best way to improve is to STOP doing what doesn't work and experiment to find out what does. If you keep practicing touching down and swimming then you will get very good and it and still won't fly through a gybe. Use the correct equipment so to leave the answer is changing something that you are doing, so change something and find the flying gybe. Good luck. ps I don't fly my gybes yet.
Very valid advice. Do the wrong thing for too long, and you'll develop the wrong "muscle memory" that really wants to stick around, even if you eventually learn the right way. I get reminded of that every time out on a slapper, where just a fraction of my jibes are decent, while most are as bad as they were in the decades before I finally planed through.
But there are a few caveats. One is that the "wrong" way may seem to work initially. That happened to me on the foil jibe when I tried to stand near the centerline, and planed (but not foiled) through my first tries. The next caveat is that you may change the wrong thing. After the first good tries, my very wrong "stay near the centerline" idea had me swimming almost every time. I changes a bunch of things but never how I stood at the beginning.
The final caveat is that it is very common to not do what we think we are doing. For example, I thought I was stepping very wide in my foil jibe private lesson, but still crashed. Sure enough, the instructor pointed out that I had barely moved my back foot. It took several tries to finally get over the old habits. Fortunately, this is easier to address that the other issues by using a GoPro.
Shouldn't you feel your backfoot position by the toes (rail) and the outer edge of your foot (backstrap)?
