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If we are metric why do we still use knots?

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Created by GasHazard > 9 months ago, 31 Mar 2021
LeeD
3939 posts
4 Apr 2021 4:52AM
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Wouldn't that depend on the screen size of the cell phone?
See, there is NO STANDARDS! And some keyboards are more precise than others, and some fingers are clumsy, while others are surgically precise.
That's why we have all sorts of different measuring systems!

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 8:54AM
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^^^
We have different measuring systems depending on our finger clumsiness ???

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 9:03AM
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LeeD said..
Its all about reality and living in the real world.
You engineers would love to have a universal measuring system.
Guess what? Real world means you have to adjust and adapt!



Us engineers make the world real . We make adjusting and adapting possible. .Of course we would like a universal measuring system , that just makes sense . But don't worry we can work it out , and the answer is not finger clumsiness .
Space cadet mocking engineers .

MarkSSC
QLD, 642 posts
4 Apr 2021 9:19AM
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segler said..
Volvo, being made in Sweden, continued to use imperial in their cars until the late 70s. I had a 1974 Volvo 245 wagon that was easy to work on with my American tools and imperial nuts and bolts.

But yes, the issue is tooling, and the USA ain't no dinky little installed base of imperial-based hardware going back 150 years. Think of all those screw and bolt threads and pipe threads. It is happening in the USA, albeit slowly. Everything new in the USA is metric now. Vehicle speedos show both, but road signs and plumbing are still stubbornly imperial.

My toolbox at home is heavier than it needs to be because i have to keep both sets. Is it 17mm or 5/8" ?


The American aircraft industry is huge, including everything still in service from last Century.

Another advantage of Imperial measurements is their compatibility with fractions. Metric never works well with thirds, sixths etc. I find that both systems have a place, but don't try and mix them together.

MarkSSC
QLD, 642 posts
4 Apr 2021 9:31AM
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Mark _australia said..
I suggest real world is - metric easier.

10mm plus 19mm is way easier than 3/8" plus 3/4"

I do like having both sets though. you can use imperial drill bit for a hole to accept a metric bolt so it has a smidge of wiggle


75% is 3/4 but how do you accurately measure 1/3 using metric?

Pi can equal three and one seventh but comes up as a recurring number if you try to use a decimal number. (Pi is not Imperial but the idea that fractions relate better to Imperial measurements is the point)

Drill sizes are interesting because there are at least three systems...Metric, Imperial and Number drills.

I do agree that adding fractions can be harder, but some decimal numbers can be tricky too if you consider the use of thousandths. As such, engineering applications can benefit from both systems.

I went to school in the 1960's so I had to learn both systems. Some of the Imperial measurements have faded into history and are no longer relevant. I like metric but still use the old system for many applications.

MarkSSC
QLD, 642 posts
4 Apr 2021 9:37AM
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Imax1 said..

LeeD said..
Its all about reality and living in the real world.
You engineers would love to have a universal measuring system.
Guess what? Real world means you have to adjust and adapt!




Us engineers make the world real . We make adjusting and adapting possible. .Of course we would like a universal measuring system , that just makes sense . But don't worry we can work it out , and the answer is not finger clumsiness .
Space cadet mocking engineers .


A French aircraft designer, Marcel Dassault, designed his own screw heads. That was his standard so you had to buy his tooling if you wanted to fix those planes. Naturally, the Australian Government bought those aeroplanes (and the special tools as well). Perhaps it is the engineers fault that we have all this complication.

Ian K
WA, 4155 posts
4 Apr 2021 8:03AM
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segler said..
Volvo, being made in Sweden, continued to use imperial in their cars until the late 70s. I had a 1974 Volvo 245 wagon that was easy t\


They had made some progress with tyres though. 185/70 R 14

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 10:49AM
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Ian K said..

segler said..
Volvo, being made in Sweden, continued to use imperial in their cars until the late 70s. I had a 1974 Volvo 245 wagon that was easy t\



They had made some progress with tyres though. 185/70 R 14


So mixed up .
185 mm. Metric
70 %. Metric fraction
14. " Imperial

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 10:54AM
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MarkSSC said..

Imax1 said..


LeeD said..
Its all about reality and living in the real world.
You engineers would love to have a universal measuring system.
Guess what? Real world means you have to adjust and adapt!





Us engineers make the world real . We make adjusting and adapting possible. .Of course we would like a universal measuring system , that just makes sense . But don't worry we can work it out , and the answer is not finger clumsiness .
Space cadet mocking engineers .



A French aircraft designer, Marcel Dassault, designed his own screw heads. That was his standard so you had to buy his tooling if you wanted to fix those planes. Naturally, the Australian Government bought those aeroplanes (and the special tools as well). Perhaps it is the engineers fault that we have all this complication.


It's a businessman's fault . Engineers measure and fix the confusion.

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 10:58AM
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All accurate measurements , ( metric and imperial ) , are done in decimal points not fractions .

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 11:06AM
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Also , Pi isn't three and one seventh , it's close but still has recurring numbers. Just like decimal. The English didn't invent their sizing around Pi to nicely sit in at three and one seventh . It's just an ass that it's kind of close.

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 11:14AM
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Learning to calculate and visualise metric is easier than fractions . That's why it's taking over , it makes more sense.

Swindy
WA, 456 posts
4 Apr 2021 9:20AM
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There is a universal measurement system.
Google's, Simple's.

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 11:59AM
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Also ,
Fractions can only accurately be used to describe length not measure it . Metric does both .
This is imperial for you . One inch can be broken down to halves , thirds , quarters , sixteenths , thirtytwoths, sixtyfourths , then if you need more accuracy it uses a decimal point . There are 12 inches in a foot , 5280 feet in a mile . It's all over the place like a mad woman's sh.t . No wonder they had to fix it .

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 12:11PM
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As long as people try to say fractions is better than decimal , it is my duty to show otherwise .

Brent in Qld
WA, 1356 posts
4 Apr 2021 12:12PM
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Also suppose it points to the type of people/country you are, looking forward or looking back, collaborative or self-obsessed, maybe to lesser extent who you want to be associated with and how you do business. Here are all the countries still (mostly or officially) sticking to the imperial system and making ancient, inaccurate systems of measurement great again...
U.S.A
Liberia
Myanmar

www.statista.com/chart/18300/countries-using-the-metric-or-the-imperial-system/#:~:text=Only%20three%20countries%20%E2%80%93%20the%20U.S.,body%20parts%20or%20everyday%20items.

Either way I like windy whatever ya wanna call em, the more the merrier and we are promised 30+ of them tomoz!




decrepit
WA, 12767 posts
4 Apr 2021 2:07PM
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Imax1 said..
^^^
We have different measuring systems depending on our finger clumsiness ???

wouldn't surprise me, the foot depends on the length of somebody's foot back in time

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
4 Apr 2021 4:28PM
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Don't stop now IMAX. you are on the roll of the century. - (Opps, is metric or imperial?)

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 4:32PM
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To me Imperial is old habit and nostalgia.
If I go accurate I have to be decimal .
on the other hand I'll say move forward a foot or two , I relate to knots more easily than km. A bees dick is slightly less tham a smidge but more than fark all. When I look down in the shower I see inches not cm

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 4:38PM
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sailquik said..
Don't stop now IMAX. you are on the roll of the century. - (Opps, is metric or imperial?)


I mean , we count in a decimal system for Gods sake ,
Dont get me started

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 4:45PM
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I'm so glad nobody's mentioned gauge system . What knuckle invented that . That's dumb in reverse . In what world is a 12 gauge shot gun cartridge bigger than a 20 gauge ?
Stop me.

Mark _australia
WA, 23450 posts
4 Apr 2021 4:13PM
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^^^ no that makes sense as it is the number of lead balls that size which make up a pound.
In old canon language it made sense.

I'm with you on fractions though. The only imperial I kinda like is thousands of an inch. Its easy to think of bigger thou' as its near enough 40 thou to a millimetre so talking about 20 thou overbore on an engine build is easy to visualise. And I therefore know that 'takingf a couple of thou off' is very close to a p00fteenth.

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
4 Apr 2021 7:26PM
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Old cannon language , so it was a drunken one eyed pirate with scurvy that came up with that ?

sailquik
VIC, 6165 posts
4 Apr 2021 8:07PM
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Mark _australia said..
^^^ no that makes sense as it is the number of lead balls that size which make up a pound.
In old canon language it made sense.

I'm with you on fractions though. The only imperial I kinda like is thousands of an inch. Its easy to think of bigger thou' as its near enough 40 thou to a millimetre so talking about 20 thou overbore on an engine build is easy to visualise. And I therefore know that 'takingf a couple of thou off' is very close to a p00fteenth.




And the lead balls themselves became a handy measure of weight.

Whats the explanation for wire gauge and self tapping screw gauge

remery
WA, 3709 posts
4 Apr 2021 8:25PM
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Sometimes I wonder if the US maintains the imperial system to subjugate the less educated.

MarkSSC
QLD, 642 posts
4 Apr 2021 11:12PM
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Imax1 said..
All accurate measurements , ( metric and imperial ) , are done in decimal points not fractions .


You can't convert 1/3 to metric. You get a recurring number.

MarkSSC
QLD, 642 posts
4 Apr 2021 11:14PM
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remery said..
Sometimes I wonder if the US maintains the imperial system to subjugate the less educated.


The metric system works for those who can use a base 10 system. It is short sighted to say that such a system is the best for all applications.

MarkSSC
QLD, 642 posts
4 Apr 2021 11:19PM
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Imax1 said..

sailquik said..
Don't stop now IMAX. you are on the roll of the century. - (Opps, is metric or imperial?)



I mean , we count in a decimal system for Gods sake ,
Dont get me started


The Romans used to count in fives (base five) and computers use a base 2 (on/off) system. The Mayans used a system counting in 60. The decimal system is easy for us because we inherited the Hindu/Arabic system. The biggest advancement was when they started using a zero.

By the way, those who count in time (using seconds) are not using a decimal (base 10 system).

Musicians count using a range of fractions eg 4/4; 3/4 etc

Ian K
WA, 4155 posts
4 Apr 2021 10:06PM
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The metric system is not perfect. The basic unit of mass is called a kilogram and has to be teamed up with plain old metres and seconds in calculations. (F=ma and all that). If you match kilograms up with kilometres and kiloseconds you'll be way out. ( 1 kilosecond = 16.666667 minutes )

Imax1
QLD, 4925 posts
5 Apr 2021 7:56AM
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MarkSSC said..




Imax1 said..
All accurate measurements , ( metric and imperial ) , are done in decimal points not fractions .






You can't convert 1/3 to metric. You get a recurring number.





But 1/3 is not a size or a measurement , it's just a description . It can't be used to do anything apart from visualise . If you needed to say add 1/3 or divide 1/3 it has to be done in decimal . 0.333 " recurring or 0.333cm recurring. The maths is the same . For example if you have a measured length of 7"5/977 th and you need to divide by 1/3 =. ?
The answer can be done , but then what do you do with it ? The fraction answer will be crazy with endless numbers . The answer can only be used in decimal format .
If you had a six pack of beer and three people , 1/3 is easy to visualise. But if you had 5 and 2/7 th of a beer and needed to divide between 3 people , not so easy . Decimal is the easy way .



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"If we are metric why do we still use knots?" started by GasHazard