Select to expand quotebel29 said..
The combination of the requirement to use serial equipment and limiting the number of boards/sails that can be used in PWA racing has undoubtedly contributed to the development of gear that is generally available, less specialized, and therefore by definition more accessible. Of course, racing gear is for racing, so not necessarily for everyone, but developments in racing spill over to rest of the range.
Yes, racing gear may be different in some ways. There is still the issue that the top pros sail at a different level to the average sailor and therefore benefit from different gear, and therefore the gear that is developed to win at pro level may be too hard to sail for the typical racer to get the best from.
This is pretty much a universal rule in sailing and I understand it's similar across many sports. It doesn't mean that series equipment rules are bad, just that they create revenge effects we have to look out for.
Select to expand quoteMHSA said..
1. And just think how much more relevant the production gear they use will be for regular guys.
2. Id buy a slalom board that's also made to beach start in waves and jump a buoy.
1. None of the GPS slalom board speedsters I know are interested in throwing in a jump in their sailing.
2. Buy a Severne Fox, Fanatic Blast, JP Super Ride, Simmer Freemove, Exocet Cross, Tabou 3S Classic etc. All with a decent turn of speed, have less extreme footstrap settings for easier jumping and handling in waves. There is a wide selection there of speed vs jumping ability. Maybe we will see Fanatic (Duotone) reintroduce their slalom board (Ray) which was the Falcon but built in glass and had a 2nd row of strap inserts. The UK importer told me they didnt sell many as people who were serious about speed/slalom bought the Falcon and the Ray didnt appeal to many others. They dropped them and brought out the Jag, which I think itself wouldnt be as good in waves as it has less nose rocker than the Falcon.
Select to expand quotejdfoils said..windsurftom said..
To be fair I think they nailed it
Nailed what, their own coffin shut?
They are going to have a "world championships" with only one or two events. Also a return to whining about wind minimums and how they are measured. This is a change that the general public will not understand being done to appease the dinosaurs.
So putting a bunch of highly specialised super expensive high tech boards way out at sea where no one can see ...is going to interest the public (and potential sponsors and media) more than the provided high wind high action example Aloha video above ?
Your kidding ...the punters would watch the Aloha all day every day.. the only time i ever recall windsurfing featuring on any mainstream media was highlights of wave events or mega large participation number races like Defi, Lancelin, OD worlds etc
Foiling has won the race , well done wahoo, you are the superior beast, congrats, clap clap ... but its killed windsurfing along the way.
Upside is, Foils can go foil racing now and not be hindered by slow slappers!
The 'X' is a bit lame :(
Nothing in the suggested rules format says the sausage has to come out, plenty of other race styles to pick from ,
Here in SE QLD we could add 'jump the shark net!' , WA would be jump the cray pot line whilst looking into the sun! :)
Surf Slalom and Marathons will get punters interested.
The gear limit is realistic and will develop versatile , flexible equipment , maybe even more durable :)
Only down side is needing good wind , proper wind, set a +15knts wind minimum would help.
WA would be a perfect location to host, its back to the future format yes...but it worked then, so it can work again.
Select to expand quoteJonesySail said.. ... but its killed windsurfing along the way.
Where I live, it's saving the sport. If we still had the RS:X instead of the IQFoil, it would likely be just kites and wings in the '28 Olympics. I love sailing on a fin but the efficiency of the foil is a game changer in many locations not blessed with steady and strong winds. This is the same reason that the foils have dominated racing because so much racing is happening (and can happen) at lower wind speeds.
Foils were going to happen whether we put them on windsurfers or not. Imho, if it were just a choice between rigging up a 9.5 on Formula kit and a wingfoil in 8-12 kts, windsurfing would be swirling down the drain.
A big part of what's changed in the industry in the last five years is money is being spent below the board rather than the board itself for the 6-20kt market. Instead of it being spent on Duotone, etc, it's being spent on F4, Slingshot, SAB Foil, etc.
Select to expand quotePaducah said..JonesySail said.. ... but its killed windsurfing along the way.
Where I live, it's saving the sport. If we still had the RS:X instead of the IQFoil, it would likely be just kites and wings in the '28 Olympics. I love sailing on a fin but the efficiency of the foil is a game changer in many locations not blessed with steady and strong winds. This is the same reason that the foils have dominated racing because so much racing is happening (and can happen) at lower wind speeds.
Foils were going to happen whether we put them on windsurfers or not. Imho, if it were just a choice between rigging up a 9.5 on Formula kit and a wingfoil in 8-12 kts, windsurfing would be swirling down the drain.
A big part of what's changed in the industry in the last five years is money is being spent below the board rather than the board itself for the 6-20kt market. Instead of it being spent on Duotone, etc, it's being spent on F4, Slingshot, SAB Foil, etc.
Yeah if I had known when I started that the typical summer seabreezes of 8-10 or so kts, sometimes up to 12kts or so, wouldn't get me planing on my 9.5, and foiling wasn't an option, I probably would've given up on the sport out of frustration. I was very unfamiliar with the wind seasons and limits of equipment at the beginning. The TOW I get with the 9.0 and foils was a game changer, and turned puttering around on a windsup or big board into flying around and exploring at 20kts board speed when sailboats were making 8kts or so. That first time flying in almost nothing was a big deal.
Silly video when I really was excited to make something happen. Look, no white caps or nothing.
Select to expand quotewindsurftom said..
The PWA are possibly going to separate fin racing from foil racing. And they may bring in beach starts and obstacles like the old Super X.
Fin events would be restricted to windy locations.
Hard to see why Super-X would work now at attracting an audience, when it did not work 20 and 40 years ago when there was a much bigger potential audience. So, I would not be surprised if Super-X disappears in 2025, but at least they cleaned up the fin + foil racing mess. I still only fin, but foiling is obviously the choice for racing and anything below 12-15 knots of wind.
it's a good call -- and a necessary one if they wanted to at least have a shot at saving fin racing. that said, it may be too little too late.
I also have my doubts that this (not so) new discipline is going to see the development and marketing of an entirely new range of boards & sails. on the other hand, the windsurfing industry has never really operated on the basis of sound economic & commercial principles, so who know! 
If we want racing to make better gear then they should have to end the year with the same physical boards, masts, booms and sails they started with. Allow reasonable repair but not replacement.
Race in conditions where some people will take big crashes to add randomness (hell yeah surf slalom).
See who gets through the year with their gear in functional pieces.
Select to expand quoteduzzi said..windsurftom said..
The PWA are possibly going to separate fin racing from foil racing. And they may bring in beach starts and obstacles like the old Super X.
Fin events would be restricted to windy locations.
Hard to see why Super-X would work now at attracting an audience, when it did not work 20 and 40 years ago when there was a much bigger potential audience. So, I would not be surprised if Super-X disappears in 2025, but at least they cleaned up the fin + foil racing mess. I still only fin, but foiling is obviously the choice for racing and anything below 12-15 knots of wind.
No arguments there , it' the superior beast ... thats kind of what I'm getting at ..foiling has taken over ...'windsurFIN' as result has died.. its only really king at really windy locations, even that line is blurred now with foils pushing into higher winds.
Performance wise Fins really only out perform when its super windy and surf conditions, especially beach breaks ....
So WindsurFIN has become its own Niche within a Niche Sport , just like the OD/LT is a Niche Class within the sport, maybe Fin racing becomes retro/vintage racing:) Its clear now there are so many groups and classes within the sport ....
Here's one to stir the pot :) should create some interesting discussion
Surfers would never call Prone Foiling Surfing , ever , requires similar but different gear.
They call it 'foiling' not 'surfing'
If you are getting waves on a SUP its 'SUP surfing' you'd get shot if you suggested to a surfer you were 'surfing' :)
Kitesurfing is not Windsurfing , Kite foiling is called Kitefoiling , requires similar but different gear.
Windfoiling in a similar , requires similar gear but different.
To me 'foiling' is foiling, mast or wing, it is its own beast.
'windsurFIN' is windsurfng with fin, it is its own beast.
Not that any of it matters..ist just all words and titles for communication purposes ,,, but as all these niche water sports have their descriptive names for clarity, to me Windfoiling and Windsurfing are different, can they play together , mostly yes, but not always.
So having a format/race style that windsurfers can just be windsurfers with windsurfing gear in conditions that suit windsurfers makes sense, even if it is only for a small market, and if they mix it up with high wind* action and surf and spectacular action stuff it will succeed... Foiling will continue to evolve and be its own beast.
Not every location works for foiling , so keeping windsurFIN alive is important.
For sale: 2005 JP Australia Super X. 106l. Many repairs (some with duct tape) and it has 5 liters of water in it. However it's PWA-ready! Asking only $5,400. Shipping not included
Select to expand quoteWillyWind said..
For sale: 2005 JP Australia Super X. 106l. Many repairs (some with duct tape) and it has 5 liters of water in it. However it's PWA-ready! Asking only $5,400. Shipping not included
Gold. Worst board I've ever owned was a Naish Super X . Sold it 6 mth later
Yeah, they shouldn't have tied it to the Super X name because it's nothing like it; Super X with the freestyle tricks meant you needed to run a board and sail (no cam!) that could spock so you had an event that +100kg Albeau could be racing Robby Swift and both could be competitive. It's really a far cry from what slalom is...
On the jump front. You don't need a ramp! I was in Fuerte in 2006 and the Rene Egli boys were mucking around with those jump tubes so we were running the course with them. When it's blowing 40 knots they are very easy to jump... just lift your feet and you're over. Would need a ramp if you're on 9.5 and it's 9 knots but thankfully Foil got rid of that combo!
Confirmed Slalom X at Sotavento. Pozo is TBC.
So I'm guessing the 2 'X' features will be the speed leg (which they already do) and the chicane - gybe bouy followed by another in a short distance. Hopefully the speed leg wont be too broad like last year as it makes the gybe difficult. In previous years the 1st leg was often a longer broader reach.
I cant see any other features making it. 8 sailors as is it is is busy enough. A long distance isnt really practical in that area of the island with offshore winds and the hills next to the beach. Its no Guissian.
If the do race at Pozo, have surf slalom & chicane, with the finish boat out to sea past the wave area and maybe a chicane just outside in the break line would be good. The couldnt do that with the foils (or could they) and could have had that under the previous format if they had raced there.
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..
Pretty good discussion that I caught right as I was grabbing coffee
We are in the middle of an "atmospheric river" in San Francisco, but I could not listen to more than a couple of minutes! Discussion? This is a mind-numbing 20 minutes long monologue. Some people really lie to listen to themselves!!!!!!
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
I'm predicting foil will become boring and SLX will be the future.
SLX could open foil up to getting more interesting courses. I mean why limit a windsurf foil to downwind slalom only?
Select to expand quotewindsurftom said..Gestalt said..
I'm predicting foil will become boring and SLX will be the future.
SLX could open foil up to getting more interesting courses. I mean why limit a windsurf foil to downwind slalom only?
Perhaps Foil X will be next 
Select to expand quoteazuli said..windsurftom said..Gestalt said..
I'm predicting foil will become boring and SLX will be the future.
SLX could open foil up to getting more interesting courses. I mean why limit a windsurf foil to downwind slalom only?
Perhaps Foil X will be next
That would be cool to watch
Select to expand quotewindsurftom said..Gestalt said..
I'm predicting foil will become boring and SLX will be the future.
SLX could open foil up to getting more interesting courses. I mean why limit a windsurf foil to downwind slalom only?
Like a high jump bar mid straight 
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..
Pretty good discussion that I caught right as I was grabbing coffee
Yea watched that.
He says you were lying if you were to say you knew that foils would beat fin.
This of course is bollocks.
Why does he think that foils were banned from most sailing classes for the last X number of years? It wasn't because they were slower.
The only real question attached to windsurf foiling is why are they still going so slowly? The speeds can and will get much higher.
