ok so the winter storms have got me licking my lips... keen to get back into it.
after thumbing through forums and asking a few friends about setups, i'm realising that persisting with the crappy sails, masts and booms i've got is just plain hard work. I have 2 fibreglass 460 masts. I have a bunch of sails which are all 15+ years old. I have 2 old aluminium booms. i have the really old style mast base units.
i do have ok board options for a beginner. Not brilliant but ok.
Tyronsea 360cm board.
Mistral 161l board.
Bic Techno around 118l.
2-3 other older style board in around 80-100l but they were shaped in the 90's.
My 360 Tyronsea which is easy to get up on regardless of how nasty conditions are and it gets blasting when there is a good wind and i get my old sails tight enough. I also have my Mistral 161 which will be where i'll spend the next few months progressing and improving. There is a JP Freeride 144 on Gumtree for $600 that i like the look of and i think would be a handy addition to my set but realistically if i get used to the Mistral 161 and improve my skills then i'll keep pushing down through the sizes and get back to something around 100-120l next.
So... the plan is to get a better combo including mast, sails and boom whilst persisting with the Mistral 161 a little longer. Does anyone have any advice in this regard? Based on what i've learned i am thinking along the lines of 1 x 430cm carbon mast with 3 x matching brand sails in approximately 4.5, 5.5, 6.5 sails and 1 x lightweight boom to match also. Oh! nearly forgot. Modern mast extender and base plate as well. Thinking Severne or Neil Pryde because i see lots of that gear locally so it should be easy to source and easy to sell... but any pointers would be handy.
Thanks
Gos
Select to expand quoteGos said..
ok so the winter storms have got me licking my lips... keen to get back into it.
after thumbing through forums and asking a few friends about setups, i'm realising that persisting with the crappy sails, masts and booms i've got is just plain hard work. I have 2 fibreglass 460 masts. I have a bunch of sails which are all 15+ years old. I have 2 old aluminium booms. i have the really old style mast base units.
i do have ok board options for a beginner. Not brilliant but ok.
Tyronsea 360cm board.
Mistral 161l board.
Bic Techno around 118l.
2-3 other older style board in around 80-100l but they were shaped in the 90's.
My 360 Tyronsea which is easy to get up on regardless of how nasty conditions are and it gets blasting when there is a good wind and i get my old sails tight enough. I also have my Mistral 161 which will be where i'll spend the next few months progressing and improving. There is a JP Freeride 144 on Gumtree for $600 that i like the look of and i think would be a handy addition to my set but realistically if i get used to the Mistral 161 and improve my skills then i'll keep pushing down through the sizes and get back to something around 100-120l next.
So... the plan is to get a better combo including mast, sails and boom whilst persisting with the Mistral 161 a little longer. Does anyone have any advice in this regard? Based on what i've learned i am thinking along the lines of 1 x 430cm carbon mast with 3 x matching brand sails in approximately 4.5, 5.5, 6.5 sails and 1 x lightweight boom to match also. Oh! nearly forgot. Modern mast extender and base plate as well. Thinking Severne or Neil Pryde because i see lots of that gear locally so it should be easy to source and easy to sell... but any pointers would be handy.
Thanks
Gos
Severne are great although my experience is with their cammed sails..
I'm an intermediate and 63-65kgs so a bit lighter than you - for 25kts I can hang onto a powerful 4.8m ( prob = to a 5.2m) but if 25kts need a 4m . But I'm not learning and that's flat water.I can waterstart , plane out of gybes ( if the planet aligns) etc.
For learning I'd say the 4.7m sounds about right for your size - not too big a handful.
Think about what style extension you want, 2 pin cup style has a minimum extension of about 8 cm while euro pin can go down to zero, I wish i had realized this before investing in an expensive long carbon extension, sometimes you need to get down to zero.
I like skinny masts, almost unbreakable at least compared to a SDM mast.
Personally, i'd stick with the 161L and go straight to the 120L once you have water starts down.
I learnt and progressed with NP gear. The good thing i found is that if you have a good 430 mast and 48 ext you can set sails from 5 to 7m on it.
I still use the NP's in my smaller sails 4.5 and 4.8 but i have gone to KA for 5.3 and 5.8 but these both used different masts 
If you decide to go with NP go for X6 mast and boom. This will suit you needs fine.
I have a 2009 5.4m Exceed you can have if you go down that path. Its used but has a good couple of seasons left in it and full x-ply so nice and tuff. http://www.neilpryde.com/download/archive/windsurfing/2009_dealer_workbook_lores.pdf
It is possible to get sails from 5m to 7m that go on a 430 mast. I would say most manufacturers tend to match sails from 5.2/5.3m up to 6.2/6.5m to a 430 mast. Shorter masts tend to be softer, so if you tried to use a 4.5m sail on a 430 mast, the mast is likely to be too stiff for it. It is possible to mix some masts from one brand with some sails for another brand, but for you, its safer to stick with one brand of mast and sails and make sure that they did not change the bend characteristics of their masts in the years you are buying from. Some manufacturers have changed designers and the new designer sometimes brings with him a preference for a different mast curve.
You should be able to find one boom that will cover the whole range of sails that you need.
The mast is the thing that ties everything together. If you get a 430 RDM, I would suggest you get one with at least 70% carbon as it is a good compromise between performance and cost. The extension you need depends on the sail luff lengths that you buy, so you would ideally buy the mast, then the sails, then the extension.
As Stu said, I would go for a smaller board once you can water start. I would get something a modern as you can, but 2nd hand. You will be breaking a lot of noses.
You want 'easy', especially now in winter. Don't expect to progress very fast. If WA is like SA, and you are like me, Windsurfing in winter becomes frustrating. All the good sessions happen in the week day. When one does line up on a weekend, I have a family commitment . Sails in winter are few and far between.
Your (freeride) sail quiver looks good. You could probably have a 7 in place of the 6.5.
Faaaantastic, thanks everyone for the feedback, greatly appreciated. I'll be on the hunt for a 430 mast (70% carbon) and matching brand sails and boom to go with it. Thanks also for the offer of the 5.4m sail - if i end up with NP stuff i'll definitely follow that up.
G'day again,
i started this beginner thread a year ago and i have learned a lot since then, so for the benefit of any new windsurfers out there (noobs) I'll share a few pearls of wisdom from the perspective of a learner.
ok, let's start with gear. In the last two months I have bought the following in addition to previous inventory (above);
1. bought a set of 4 2nd-hand S1 Severne Sails. They are 4.2, 4.7, 5.3 and 6.2. Snapped up for $500. You've gotta move quick to snag bargains like that!!
HOT TIP: Having sails made by the same company makes it easier to choose booms and also means more consistent handling between sail sizes. In Perth you will find oodles of 2nd hand Severne, NP, Tushingham, Gaastra and many others. They are all pretty good to be honest.
2. bought 400cm and 430cm carbon masts. Super light, perfectly matched to my quiver of S1 sails. Both 2nd hand.
3. A 2nd hand Severne aluminium boom $150. Also a no-brand aluminium boom came with the S1 sails I bought.
HOT TIP: have a spare boom - i snapped my no-brand aluminium boom the other day and was fortunate to have the Severne in the car... I was back in the water in 10 mins. Booms take a hiding while you are learning and crashing.
And I am persevering with the following boards;
200l+ 360cm Tyronsea sailboard - huge hulk of a thing that is great for total beginners. It is an old version of Starboard Start or JP Funster.
161l Mistral Supervision Freeride - excellent transition board. Using it a lot now.
121l Bic Techno Freeride - I hope to be on this soon.
HOT TIP: do not even look at cheap 2nd hand small litreage boards and other sites until you know you can ride them. I currently have 4 boards additional to these which i cannot ride because they are tiny wave boards for awesome windsurfers (ie. not me). Do not add useless boards to your storage. Invest in 1 single good quality freeride learner board. It will cost you triple what a small board will cost... but its worth it. Aim for something in the 130l-180l range. When you progress to something better you will probably sell it for the same price you paid for it.
Summer 2014/15
So this summer started with me heading down the swan river with the Tyronsea and my newer sails. I could up haul the Tyronsea and with some improvements to my rigging of the sail and some patience in the water I was up and planing and "Yee-Hoo"ing across the water. My nexy few days out I tried the Mistral 161 and it was torture because I couldn't waterstart... So I'd spend all my time fighting the sail and drowning in the River.
HOT TIP. watch videos on YouTube when you want to learn a new skill. I did a lot of research on water start technique and eventually worked out that I was doing just 1 thing wrong, I had my front hand all the way up the boom next to the mast and couldn't get the sail to sheet in properly when I wanted to get up on the the board... As soon as I moved my front hand approximately 25cm down the boom my water starts were instant and without effort!! Woohoo,, so now I can waterstart I am having a magical time on the river. My next challenge is to learn to turn properly.
Ok so let me outline the biggest things that have made a difference to my windsurfing experience this summer as i transitioned from total beginner to beginner/intermediate;
1. Use a canvas bag or plastic tub to put all your windsurfing bits and pieces (mast base extender, mast base, fins, screws, spare ropes) and tools (screw driver, allen keys, roll of tape, scissors) and that way all your stuff is together. When you get to the beach/river there is no chance that you've forgotten 1 little thing that prevents you from getting in the water.
2. Keep a roll of tape in your kit and tape your mast pieces together. It keeps the mast in 1 piece whilst putting it into and removing from your sail, reducing the risk you could damage the mast. Simple and genius.
3. Learn to water start as quickly as you can. I found windsurfing seriously hard work when i was uphauling. It was barely even fun. Once you get the technique correct for waterstarting it is no effort at all, you don't even need any strength, the wind brings you up on the board! I highly recommend doing whatever it takes to learn this essential skill - spend $100-200 on lessons rather than purchasing some more kit on seabreeze/gumtree. The lessons will pay off.
4. The manner in which you rig the sail has a huge impact on its performance. Watch other windsurfers, and talk to them! Rig your sail and then ask someone nearby "hey buddy, do you think i have done this right?"- the windsurfing community are so friendly and people are typically very generous with their knowledge. Don't be afraid to ask. The basics are that if you pull everything too tight then the power of the wind will wash off the sail. If you rig it more loose (less tension) then the sail picks up the power of the wind. Of course you don't want it too loose either. Fiddle around with your tension and feel the difference!
5. When trying to plane, keep your front leg as straight as possible. For some reason if you keep your front foot planted and quite straight the board gets up and planing a lot quicker. Someone with more knowledge can better explain... but it works. If you are learning to plane, give it a shot. Bent front knee = no power to plane.
6. Sunscreen. Keep a pump pack in your vehicle. You'll use litres of it.
7. Footstraps are your friend. I've only got into these babies in the last fortnight. Prior to that i was petrified of the thought of crashing whilst my feet were in the straps - well folks it turns out that if I am in the footstraps... i don't crash as much! The control of the board is FAR better if you shuffle your feet into the straps. I guess that's why everyone does it ;)
8. Hooking into the harness is one of the biggest transitions I made as a learner. At first i was petrified and even now i have EPIC catapults about every 10 minutes or so whilst hooked in. After I completely eat sht i find myself upside down, on top of the sail, and still hooked in. Learn to laugh at yourself. Unhook. Roll off the sail. Give the thumbs up to the legend sailing past you and laughing. Pickup the sail, waterstart, and do it all again but faster. Once I got used to hooking into my harness I found that my arms are not so tired and the weight of my body against the wind in the sail generates all the power and speed I could ever imagine. I'm telling you that the harness lines will cause you to have epic prangs like you never imagined, but this is real windsurfing... you have to hook in. Do it sooner rather than later and when it all goes wrong make sure you laugh.
9. Take $40 in the car with you. If you arrive and have forgotten some piece of equipment - hire some gear and get in the water for 30-60 minutes rather than miss out entirely. Also you'll be surprised how many times your missus has left a sms msg on your phone asking you to pickup milk or something for dinner on the way home. $40 covers pretty much anything you need for dinner and you'll be a hero when you get home.
10. Take 1 cold beer/cider in the car. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to wash down my gear, dry off, de-rig and pack down. 1 beer never tasted as good as it does in those 25 minutes immediately after a session in the water.
That's it for now! i'm keeping an eye on the wind measurements at Melville Water whilst i'm typing this and its edging up past 15 knots so hopefully its 20 by the time i hit the river :)
Good luck to all the learners out there. Stick with it. Don't forget to scream "wooooohoooohooo" when you first start planing.
Select to expand quoteGos said..
10. Take 1 cold beer/cider in the car. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to wash down my gear, dry off, de-rig and pack down. 1 beer never tasted as good as it does in those 25 minutes immediately after a session in the water.
Take a 6 pack, put it on ice and share a few with the "friendly and generous" windsurfers who helped you out 
Select to expand quoteStuthepirate said..Gos said..
10. Take 1 cold beer/cider in the car. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to wash down my gear, dry off, de-rig and pack down. 1 beer never tasted as good as it does in those 25 minutes immediately after a session in the water.
Take a 6 pack, put it on ice and share a few with the "friendly and generous" windsurfers who helped you out
too right...
Select to expand quoteGos said..
I remember in one of your posts, you hurt your back. Did you get that sorted out ?
Select to expand quotejn1 said..Gos said..
I remember in one of your posts, you hurt your back. Did you get that sorted out ?
Yeah i did that back in about February 2014, it took over 4 months to get it right.
I must admit though, now that i am improving at windsurfing i am finding that it is not nearly as physically demanding as when i was learning.
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
Sounds like you're doing awesome
Q1: it was a fashion thing, I'm sure 
Q2: yes, you will definitely be able to get a bigger board like that planing, much easier than anything it sounds like you've ridden to date. A bigger intermediate board like a starboard carve or JP funster, or something of the like, will plane much more readily than the starboard start/go boards. The start boards will plane, but it takes a lot of effort (and wind) to get them planing. A more modern intermediate board will typically be lighter and wider than the older gear you've got, which helps when you want to plane. Sail size is the other factor to planing once/if you're comfortable getting round with a 4/5m sail, go for something bigger
Only thing with a big board like your talking about is it'll get airborne and sideways(scary sideways) a lot easier in higher wind strengths (somewhere round 20knts things'll get uncomfortable)by the time that's happening you'll be wanting a smaller board.
Q3: bias boating hardware up the rd (Stirling hwy, nedlands/Claremont) from peli point is where I got my sunglasses strap from. Most boating shop sell them though.
Q4: you'll have to wait for an SA person bout that one
Don't be discouraged by a bad day there'll be plenty of good days ahead., don't be afraid to ask the more experienced guys at the beach, they'll be able to give you a whole lot more advice about what gear you should look at and general advice in a short space of time.
One final hint. Keep the $250 sunnies for dry land, buy a cheap set for sailing. I've lost track of all the sets of sunglasses I've lost to the briny, even with a strap on them
Get a hole drilled in the arm by Optometrist.. then use fishing line of something to secure glass holders to the hole. Secure other end to vest or wetsuit lead.. Even if they come off you'll still have them. I did this after losing a $500 mutlifocal set in the drink after a hard catapult ( with usual ties and a helmet on over them! 
)
Select to expand quoteGos said..
G'day again,
i started this beginner thread a year ago and i have learned a lot since then, so for the benefit of any new windsurfers out there (noobs) I'll share a few pearls of wisdom from the perspective of a learner.
ok, let's start with gear. In the last two months I have bought the following in addition to previous inventory (above);
1. bought a set of 4 2nd-hand S1 Severne Sails. They are 4.2, 4.7, 5.3 and 6.2. Snapped up for $500. You've gotta move quick to snag bargains like that!!
HOT TIP: Having sails made by the same company makes it easier to choose booms and also means more consistent handling between sail sizes. In Perth you will find oodles of 2nd hand Severne, NP, Tushingham, Gaastra and many others. They are all pretty good to be honest.
2. bought 400cm and 430cm carbon masts. Super light, perfectly matched to my quiver of S1 sails. Both 2nd hand.
3. A 2nd hand Severne aluminium boom $150. Also a no-brand aluminium boom came with the S1 sails I bought.
HOT TIP: have a spare boom - i snapped my no-brand aluminium boom the other day and was fortunate to have the Severne in the car... I was back in the water in 10 mins. Booms take a hiding while you are learning and crashing.
And I am persevering with the following boards;
200l+ 360cm Tyronsea sailboard - huge hulk of a thing that is great for total beginners. It is an old version of Starboard Start or JP Funster.
161l Mistral Supervision Freeride - excellent transition board. Using it a lot now.
121l Bic Techno Freeride - I hope to be on this soon.
HOT TIP: do not even look at cheap 2nd hand small litreage boards and other sites until you know you can ride them. I currently have 4 boards additional to these which i cannot ride because they are tiny wave boards for awesome windsurfers (ie. not me). Do not add useless boards to your storage. Invest in 1 single good quality freeride learner board. It will cost you triple what a small board will cost... but its worth it. Aim for something in the 130l-180l range. When you progress to something better you will probably sell it for the same price you paid for it.
Summer 2014/15
So this summer started with me heading down the swan river with the Tyronsea and my newer sails. I could up haul the Tyronsea and with some improvements to my rigging of the sail and some patience in the water I was up and planing and "Yee-Hoo"ing across the water. My nexy few days out I tried the Mistral 161 and it was torture because I couldn't waterstart... So I'd spend all my time fighting the sail and drowning in the River.
HOT TIP. watch videos on YouTube when you want to learn a new skill. I did a lot of research on water start technique and eventually worked out that I was doing just 1 thing wrong, I had my front hand all the way up the boom next to the mast and couldn't get the sail to sheet in properly when I wanted to get up on the the board... As soon as I moved my front hand approximately 25cm down the boom my water starts were instant and without effort!! Woohoo,, so now I can waterstart I am having a magical time on the river. My next challenge is to learn to turn properly.
Ok so let me outline the biggest things that have made a difference to my windsurfing experience this summer as i transitioned from total beginner to beginner/intermediate;
1. Use a canvas bag or plastic tub to put all your windsurfing bits and pieces (mast base extender, mast base, fins, screws, spare ropes) and tools (screw driver, allen keys, roll of tape, scissors) and that way all your stuff is together. When you get to the beach/river there is no chance that you've forgotten 1 little thing that prevents you from getting in the water.
2. Keep a roll of tape in your kit and tape your mast pieces together. It keeps the mast in 1 piece whilst putting it into and removing from your sail, reducing the risk you could damage the mast. Simple and genius.
3. Learn to water start as quickly as you can. I found windsurfing seriously hard work when i was uphauling. It was barely even fun. Once you get the technique correct for waterstarting it is no effort at all, you don't even need any strength, the wind brings you up on the board! I highly recommend doing whatever it takes to learn this essential skill - spend $100-200 on lessons rather than purchasing some more kit on seabreeze/gumtree. The lessons will pay off.
4. The manner in which you rig the sail has a huge impact on its performance. Watch other windsurfers, and talk to them! Rig your sail and then ask someone nearby "hey buddy, do you think i have done this right?"- the windsurfing community are so friendly and people are typically very generous with their knowledge. Don't be afraid to ask. The basics are that if you pull everything too tight then the power of the wind will wash off the sail. If you rig it more loose (less tension) then the sail picks up the power of the wind. Of course you don't want it too loose either. Fiddle around with your tension and feel the difference!
5. When trying to plane, keep your front leg as straight as possible. For some reason if you keep your front foot planted and quite straight the board gets up and planing a lot quicker. Someone with more knowledge can better explain... but it works. If you are learning to plane, give it a shot. Bent front knee = no power to plane.
6. Sunscreen. Keep a pump pack in your vehicle. You'll use litres of it.
7. Footstraps are your friend. I've only got into these babies in the last fortnight. Prior to that i was petrified of the thought of crashing whilst my feet were in the straps - well folks it turns out that if I am in the footstraps... i don't crash as much! The control of the board is FAR better if you shuffle your feet into the straps. I guess that's why everyone does it ;)
8. Hooking into the harness is one of the biggest transitions I made as a learner. At first i was petrified and even now i have EPIC catapults about every 10 minutes or so whilst hooked in. After I completely eat sht i find myself upside down, on top of the sail, and still hooked in. Learn to laugh at yourself. Unhook. Roll off the sail. Give the thumbs up to the legend sailing past you and laughing. Pickup the sail, waterstart, and do it all again but faster. Once I got used to hooking into my harness I found that my arms are not so tired and the weight of my body against the wind in the sail generates all the power and speed I could ever imagine. I'm telling you that the harness lines will cause you to have epic prangs like you never imagined, but this is real windsurfing... you have to hook in. Do it sooner rather than later and when it all goes wrong make sure you laugh.
9. Take $40 in the car with you. If you arrive and have forgotten some piece of equipment - hire some gear and get in the water for 30-60 minutes rather than miss out entirely. Also you'll be surprised how many times your missus has left a sms msg on your phone asking you to pickup milk or something for dinner on the way home. $40 covers pretty much anything you need for dinner and you'll be a hero when you get home.
10. Take 1 cold beer/cider in the car. It takes me about 20-30 minutes to wash down my gear, dry off, de-rig and pack down. 1 beer never tasted as good as it does in those 25 minutes immediately after a session in the water.
That's it for now! i'm keeping an eye on the wind measurements at Melville Water whilst i'm typing this and its edging up past 15 knots so hopefully its 20 by the time i hit the river :)
Good luck to all the learners out there. Stick with it. Don't forget to scream "wooooohoooohooo" when you first start planing.
Great summation!
