Defi wave sails

Sailor skill counts for a lot.

But all you need is to move the mast base back and the foot straps forward, so you can sail in a modern upright stance and you beat the best

Day 1 in 40 knots Tommy Traversa had a 4m wave sail and 68l speed board and finished 59th in 40:38. Only 6 minutes 22 seconds down on the leaders time of 33:00.
Ben Proffit's time was 41:47, not far behind Phil Koster, not sure what he used.


www.windmag.com/defi-wind-infos-officielles

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Ben1973 said..
A lot of guys taking top spots with wave sails, seems you don't need a slalom sail to go quick and then there's the guys on full wave kit right up there as well.

Cross posting, below Andrea Cucchi compares 7.5 and change slalom sails with zero, two and three cams, in ideal conditions. No difference in speed.

Add 15 knots, chop, and a loooooong distance race and one can see why a wave kit would work well ...

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Ben1973 said..

some worry about putting a race sail on a free ride board, well if a slave sail on a speed board works it can't be that bad

TT was about 8 minutes behind in the other 2 races. How far would he be behind on a race sail?

I think I'd want gear that I know very well in wild conditions, be it wave or slalom. A lot of sailors just don't have small race sails or their brand doesn't make one. Hence the wave sail, sometimes control is king.

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choco said..

PhilUK said..
Sailor skill counts for a lot.

But all you need is to move the mast base back and the foot straps forward, so you can sail in a modern upright stance and you beat the best

Day 1 in 40 knots Tommy Traversa had a 4m wave sail and 68l speed board and finished 59th in 40:38. Only 6 minutes 22 seconds down on the leaders time of 33:00.
Ben Proffit's time was 41:47, not far behind Phil Koster, not sure what he used.


www.windmag.com/defi-wind-infos-officielles

Only 6 minutes? a gap of 6 mins is a lifetime when your talking about racing.

yes and no, racing is sometimes as close as a 1000th of a second but when most of the field are from different disciplines and you have wave sailors and racers together then its a totally different thing.
Most people were about 1:30 hours after the first placed bloke.
Also its a fun race and not a World Cup slalom race so not winning by 6 minutes isn't that bad. Also the course is mile long too, I have seen slalom races that are a kilometre long and some are 30 seconds behind the leader.

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kato said..
I think I'd want gear that I know very well in wild conditions, be it wave or slalom. A lot of sailors just don't have small race sails or their brand doesn't make one. Hence the wave sail, sometimes control is king.

I agree. I'm sure if the riders could have got their hands on a 4.5 cammed race sails they would have used them.
Or a even a camless freerace sail in 4.5.

I believe alot of the non pwa racers were mentioning their smallest race sail was 5.5ish

I'd imagine the 4.6 severne overdrive would have been a pretty good choice compared to a 4.2 wave sail.

I have got a 4.2m sail and although its about 13 years old its as good as new as we barley get that sort of wind here.

The Defi though is considered to be a windy area and I'm surprised that the Pro's didn't pack really small sails for it.

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duzzi said..
Not sure what does it matter if you like Andrea Cucchi or not ...

But anyway, if anything the cam sails, AC-Z and AC-ONE, have a small size advantage 7.8 vs 7.5 for the ACX. Andrea Cucchi is going at quite a pace, 37 knots and change over 500 meters. It is a pace of a pro-level slalom sailor, like he is, and still there is no speed advantage for the ACZ or AC-ONE. (Which of course does not mean that cams have not other advantages in a race situation.) So, a wave sail for regular sailors might be competitive in much windier conditions, say, 25-30 knots. Competitive or not, if Dunkerbeck says that he used a 5.5 race sail and he was maxed out, well ... many of us would be forced to use a wave sail ... few have a race 5.0 or smaller in their quiver.

I mentioned I like Andrea Cucci because I was about to pick holes in his advertising. Nothing against him.
If I was sailing with a cammed race sail I would be using about 1m larger than a no cam sail.
I think he said the ACK run was fast because he found some flatter water between the swells.
On the photo with the GPS he spent a LOT more time on the ACX to get those speeds than the AC-One.
In his videos of winter training on Tenerife, he had his top PWA racers on ACX against other 'normal' national level racers on their race sails and the ACX sailor won, because they were top level PWA racers, not because the ACX was as fast as a race sail.
If you want to believe no cams are as fast as cammed, carry on.
I use a GPS and my speeds on 3 cam freerace sails are faster than no cammed. The only board I have used both types of sail was my Exocet Cross 90l. The 3 cam was only 1-2 knots faster on the 10 second average, depending on the sail size.

Marion Mortefon won the women's with a 4m wave sail, Sarah Jackson was 3rd 3:30 behind with a 5m race sail. I think the difference is in sailor skill and Sarah was too overpowered with a 5m.

Yes, if you dont have a small race sail a wave sail will get you around the course at a good speed.
You dont see speed sailors on no cam sails, Why? Because they arent as fast.

For the recreational sailor, using no cammed sails is a good idea as they are less hassle and easier to use. I stopped using freerace sails 7 years ago in favour of 2 cam/no cam freeride sails. But I dont go as fast.

Anyone who attends Defi with a priority on their finishing position if given the choice would rig a sail with cams
Freeride & wave sails are great but they don't compare to a Slalom sail with cams in racing
Respect for all riders no matter what they use as not everyone goes to Defi to finish up the front on the water, just being there makes all seabreezers envious
Bring on day 3
Can't wait for more vids and pics

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Gestalt said..
can't believe no mention of a foil winning a race. in 40 knots.

Don't mention it and it might be forgotten
The only way to stop foils winning all events from here out is to ban them
Next generation windsurfing is here and that's progress for you
Biggest shift in the sport for some time

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Gestalt said..
can't believe no mention of a foil winning a race. in 40 knots.

A foil didn't win a race in 40 knots? Won two in 30-35 though. But was quite a gap to the next foil, it's amazing how much better he is on the foil than everyone else. From winning euro iq one week to 35 knot 10km races the next he's got it all covered.

Apparently last day of defi they are expecting to be a bit lighter again so we will see more of the regular top pwa sailors on foils, bit interesting to see how much they get beaten by

Happy to race against any foil at Lake George

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choco said..
Happy to race against any foil at Lake George

Ya on... See ya in the big lake

With current kit you can just about mix foiling and fin. In the not too distant future it will be utterly pointless. Foils can and will be going a lot quicker. I don't think this should mean the death of fin sailing, it's just a different discipline.( Edit and a lot of people simply won't want to be flying along at over 40 knots as a standard speed,the energy of 40 knot + crashes are significantly more than 30. I guess you could always limit the foil sizes( large) to keep them slow)

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duzzi said..

PhilUK said..

duzzi said..
Not sure what does it matter if you like Andrea Cucchi or not ...

But anyway, if anything the cam sails, AC-Z and AC-ONE, have a small size advantage 7.8 vs 7.5 for the ACX. Andrea Cucchi is going at quite a pace, 37 knots and change over 500 meters. It is a pace of a pro-level slalom sailor, like he is, and still there is no speed advantage for the ACZ or AC-ONE. (Which of course does not mean that cams have not other advantages in a race situation.) So, a wave sail for regular sailors might be competitive in much windier conditions, say, 25-30 knots. Competitive or not, if Dunkerbeck says that he used a 5.5 race sail and he was maxed out, well ... many of us would be forced to use a wave sail ... few have a race 5.0 or smaller in their quiver.

I mentioned I like Andrea Cucci because I was about to pick holes in his advertising. Nothing against him.
If I was sailing with a cammed race sail I would be using about 1m larger than a no cam sail.
I think he said the ACK run was fast because he found some flatter water between the swells.
On the photo with the GPS he spent a LOT more time on the ACX to get those speeds than the AC-One.
In his videos of winter training on Tenerife, he had his top PWA racers on ACX against other 'normal' national level racers on their race sails and the ACX sailor won, because they were top level PWA racers, not because the ACX was as fast as a race sail.
If you want to believe no cams are as fast as cammed, carry on.
I use a GPS and my speeds on 3 cam freerace sails are faster than no cammed. The only board I have used both types of sail was my Exocet Cross 90l. The 3 cam was only 1-2 knots faster on the 10 second average, depending on the sail size.

Marion Mortefon won the women's with a 4m wave sail, Sarah Jackson was 3rd 3:30 behind with a 5m race sail. I think the difference is in sailor skill and Sarah was too overpowered with a 5m.

Yes, if you dont have a small race sail a wave sail will get you around the course at a good speed.
You dont see speed sailors on no cam sails, Why? Because they arent as fast.

For the recreational sailor, using no cammed sails is a good idea as they are less hassle and easier to use. I stopped using freerace sails 7 years ago in favour of 2 cam/no cam freeride sails. But I dont go as fast.

Not sure where you see the advertisement. Point-7 has four race sails on the line up, ACX, ACZ, ACK and AC-ONE, and they are very clear saying that cam sails are best for racing! They spell it out for you in detail: point-7.com/2020/03/17/the-ac-line/?v=7516fd43adaa.

Cams give you more power and keep you going in lulls. More Speed? Questionable if powered up, unless you cross above PWA top speed of 35-37 knots, and are on a speed strip.

But again you are missing the whole point. That is that for a long distance race (especially one with one jibe!) in very windy conditions a no-cam sail can be very competitive ... or be a survival tool for light and/or not-pro level sailor: if you do not finish it does not matter how fast you go!

I'm not missing anything. Read the last paragraph of my previous post, which you quoted.
You are just confusing the issue by posting videos of 7.8m race sails v 7.5m no cam sails, then talking about 40 knots wind.
According to friends who have been there, there is more wind down the course than at the start. Also, the wind angle varies. Sometimes its upwind on the reach back and my friend said he had to tack to make the finish.
BTW, 3 gybes at the Defi.