Select to expand quotesboardcrazy said..
How do you self isolate when you still have to go to the supermarket and buy food? 
You can have a friend or relative shop for you and leave it at your door, knock and leave. Or, there are many markets that deliver to your door including resteraunts. That's what I would do.
Select to expand quotepeterowensbabs said..Tasdoc said..
If you don't work in healthcare, you only need to wear a mask if you have symptoms. To prevent it from spreading to others
......Except that symptoms take 14 days to show up so you can be a carrier and spreader without knowing. A mask when in close contact by necessity (work or shopping for instance) cant hurt. The Italians French and Spanish are regretting that they did not advise better isolation and masks sooner. Test results and 'score cards' are a window on the numbers from two weeks ago. We are on a dangerous path because lots of people are not taking this nearly seriously enough. Wash your hands well with soap, avoid people and keep your distance and we might just flatten out the infection rate curve.
Yes the mask helps to stop you spreading the virus. They are not very effective to stop you catching the virus.
I live in France and there is lots of talk about them because there is a serious lack of them. It's not because people dont wont too. It's because we can't get them. Yet another mistake from the govt. They are not testing because they dont have enough either.
We have been watching doctors here begging people to stay home for weeks. Like in Italy and Spain before hand.
Anything you can do to help the medical staff and stop hospitals being overwhelmed is helpful.
So wear the mask and follow all the other things doctors (and our mums told us)!
Select to expand quoteWaiting4wind said..
Here is some info I transcribed from an audio blog that was sent to me from a trusted source. This advice came from doctors treating patients in a Spanish hospital
The measures seemed reasonable to me so I am passing it on, but take it for what it's worth to you. Keep in mind it came from a heavily affected area so the measure may seem more extreme.
Covid 19 advice
The Chinese now understand the behaviour of the Covid 19 virus thanks to autopsies carried out.
The virus is characterised by obstructing the respiratory system with a thick mucus that obstructs the airways and lungs.
To apply medications you have to open and unblock airways for effective treatment, this takes few days. Here are steps you can take to help keep you safe.
1. Drink lots of hot liquids - tea, coffee, soup, warm water. Etc. In addition take a sip of warm water every 20 mins because this keeps your mouth moist and washes any of the virus that enters your mouth into the stomach where the gastric juices will neutralise it before it can get to the lungs
2. Gargle with an anti-sceptic in warm water - like lemon, vinegar or salt, every day if possible
3. The virus attaches itself to hair and clothes. So take a bath or shower when coming in from street, don't sit around first. If you can't wash your clothes every day then hang them out in direct sunlight which also neutralises the virus.
4. Wash metallic surfaces very carefuly as the virus can remain active on them for up to 9 days. Take a note and be vigilant about touching door handles and rails. Keep those surfaces clean regularly at home / work
5. Don't Smoke
6. Wash hands every 20 mins using any soap that foams, do this for 20 seconds and thoroughly.
7. Eat fruits and vegetables, try to elevate your zinc levels not just your vitamin c levels
8. Animals do not spread the virus to people, its person to person transmission
9. Try to avoid getting the common flu, as it will weakens your system. Try to avoid eating and drinking cold things.
10. If you feel any discomfort in your throat or a sore throat coming on, attack it immediately with the above methods. The virus enters the system this way and remains 3 or 4 days before it passes into the lungs.
Good luck, take care and stay safe.
I totally get it! It makes a lot of sense to me, partly because I work in a hospital setting. This is more of a guide to go by as well as a clinical way of thinking with a lot of common sense inserted in. We exercise a lot of these practices in our hospital daily with our employees and with patent care. I work in the patient safety/ care department on the flex team, so I am continuously updated on protocol and policies that become implemented at work. Stay safe everyone.
To share some info I have learned first hand, is that the Corona Virus is different than COVID 19. COVID 19 is the dangerous virus of highest strain. The Corona virus is a lower strain of COVID 19 that's not nearly showing the dangers as COVID 19 is. I believe I saw 4 or so current strains of the corona virus currently going around.
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..
To share some info I have learned first hand, is that the Corona Virus is different than COVID 19. COVID 19 is the dangerous virus of highest strain. The Corona virus is a lower strain of COVID 19 that's not nearly showing the dangers as COVID 19 is. I believe I saw 4 or so current strains of the corona virus currently going around.
From www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html
"Human coronaviruses were first identified in the mid-1960s. The seven coronaviruses that can infect people are:Common human coronaviruses229E (alpha coronavirus)NL63 (alpha coronavirus)OC43 (beta coronavirus)HKU1 (beta coronavirus)Other human coronavirusesMERS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, or MERS)SARS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS)SARS-CoV-2 (the novel coronavirus that causes coronavirus disease 2019, or COVID-19)People around the world commonly get infected with human coronaviruses 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1."
So yes, coronaviruses are common, it's only COVID-19 that is an issue at present
Select to expand quotedandan321 said..
...all this panic for the flu??????
Suggest you read this medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
I guys, I am in lockdown from about 15/16 days, I leave in North Italy, many people begin to become psychologically tired, many people die in old age, die alone in the hospital suffocated, hearing the sirens of the ambulances every day is hard. Some people have strange behaviors that you never imagined. The Covid19 has also started to affect younger people around the age of 40. The virus has entered the hospitalization for the elderly, I leave you to imagine the consequences... The essential services work perfectly, for example, the food sector, food stores, pharmacies, etc. Between yesterday and today the first positive results seem to be seen, in the most affected region Lombardy the new infections are less but always too many.
I leave you some tips here I hope you never need them:
Buy masks
Buy lots of disinfectant gel to wash your hands, always wash your hands a thousand times a day!
Leave your shoes outside your home
Don't go to crowded places.
Prepare for smart work
Be patient some of your family or friends will have strange behaviors.
Let's hope things improve quickly
Been traveling for days, then shopping 2 days, so did not get around to reading this earlier.
Masks work 3 ways: they reduce airborne droplets you breathe in; they reduce droplets you spread coughing, sneezing, breathing; and they prevent you from touching your mouth and nose without even noticing. Even self-made masks have some efficiencies. More importantly, the countries that contained the spread (Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Japan) all have plenty of masks, and citizens wear them in public. They just don't export them anymore.
Anyone infected is most infective just as symptoms start, and possibly even before. Some estimates are that almost half of all infections happen before symptoms develop, or from infected people who never develop symptoms. If you already had a cold, you may not notice a mild COVID-19, but you'll distribute it a lot when sneezing.
The reply in the US sucks on a whole different level, but most European countries did not respond fast and hard enough. The human mind is cannot really grasps what exponential growth means. It does not help that the actual number of infections is always much larger than the reported number. Part of that is the rapid growth and 5-6 day incubation period. By the time you get tested, you probably have infected 2 others already .. if you can get a test.
I have put a bunch of information on a blog at covid19science.blogspot.com/. I had originally posted on my windsurfing blog, but pulled the COVID-19 stuff out into a separate blog today.
Fortunately, windsurfing is very compatible with social distancing. Except that the usual talk & beer on the beach is not. Unfortunately, this will not go away anytime soon. It will get a lot worse first. We already have pretty much given up on our plans to come back to WA and Lake George next year. Two weeks of quarantine each way would be a bit too much.
Lots of people are wearing masks in Brisbane, mostly Asians of course. I assume they get them posted over from China.
I make do with an ad hoc improvisation comprising a paper towel, a pair of small fold back clips and a couple of rubber bands.
I feel like a goose but an incognito goose.
I update you from Italy, the lock down has been giving results for 5 days about new infections, we are all truly closed at home or we work alone. Our thoughts are now starting to turn to the economic aspects. Today the petrol station strike begins, this worries us about the supply of super markets. We do not understand the reasons why, we hope it will be revoked. My next shopping will be delivered to me next Friday.
I resist but I am very tired, I see strange things at a political level something that resembles real socialism, I hope that the cure is not worse than the virus.
Fingers crossed 
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..
The human mind cannot really grasps what exponential growth means.
To put exponential growth in a more easily understood form for people who don't think this disease is serious:
Select to expand quoteTasdoc said..
If you don't work in healthcare, you only need to wear a mask if you have symptoms. To prevent it from spreading to others
This advice completely ignores the fact that COVID-19 is infectious BEFORE symptoms, and that some infected people never develop symptoms but still can spread the disease. This has been found in every study that looked at transmissions. Estimates are that up to 50% of transmissions happen before onset of symptoms.
So you should wear masks in public even if you do not yet have symptoms. Even self-made masks have been shown to be effective since they catch a lot of droplets that contain the virus. Not as good as surgery masks or N95 masks, but much better than nothing. Besides catching infectious droplets, masks also reduce touching of mouth and nose with your fingers, which may be loaded with virus after touching surfaces in public.
Note that the advice given often depends directly on the available supply. In the US, the CDC now advises re-use of single use masks in hospital settings because they are running out of masks. They even advise to use self-made masks in a hospital if nothing else is available.
In contrast, Taiwan ramped up mask production in January, and had soldiers help with the effort since February 2. They also controlled distribution and criminalized profiteering. The advice in Taiwan is to wear masks in public, even though the infection rate is much lower than in most other countries. Taiwan has been able to keep the epidemic to just 252 cases (as of 3/26,2020) with a population of 23 million. This is quite amazing considering they have really close ties to mainland China, with 2.7 million visitors from China in 2019.
Other countries and areas that have been successful in containing the epidemic and also have widespread mask use are Hong Kong, Singapore, Macau, South Korea, and Japan.
Select to expand quotePacey said..
To put exponential growth in a more easily understood form for people who don't think this disease is serious:
Illustrative but somewhat misleading. Part of the increase is from more testing capacity now. The actual increase is about 4x each week. Under testing is still a big issue: the actual number of infections in the US is roughly 30-times higher than reported numbers (although this factor is going down now). Details at covid19science.blogspot.com/2020/03/how-bad-is-covid-19-epidemic-in-usa.html
REALITY IN Italy:
Every time I need to get groceries, I wear a mask. I wear the same mask over again and when I get back from the store, I put it on my gear shifter in my truck for its next use. I'm pretty much the only one wearing a mask right now in the stores I'm at in my area.
Select to expand quoteManawa said..
REALITY IN Italy:
__
And now Russian army in Italy today to help us:
it.sputniknews.com/italia/202003268905873-i-militari-russi-arrivano-a-bergamo-per-combattere-il-coronavirus/
Ufficial number site web
www.salute.gov.it/nuovocoronavirus
Hope this help to understand Reality.
How do you translate this?
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..dandan321 said..
...all this panic for the flu??????
Tell that to the 3000+ dead Italians and their families
8,000+ dead now. 5 days later.
Get it now John?
It's new, nobody has immunity to it. It's *extremely contagious*, and according to a CDC report I read on the Diamond Princess the damn thing was still alive in affected passengers rooms 17 days later.
17 days!Select to expand quoteSARS-CoV-2 RNA was identified on a variety of surfaces in cabins of both symptomatic and asymptomatic infected passengers up to 17 days after cabins were vacated on the Diamond Princess but before disinfection procedures had been conducted (Takuya Yamagishi, National Institute of Infectious Diseases, personal communication, 2020).
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e3.htm
mackuba.eu/corona/#italy
Select to expand quoteMagicRide said..
Every time I need to get groceries, I wear a mask. I wear the same mask over again and when I get back from the store, I put it on my gear shifter in my truck for its next use. I'm pretty much the only one wearing a mask right now in the stores I'm at in my area.
You need to be very careful wearing the same mask over again due to the possibility of infecting yourself as the Virus can survive on most surfaces for several days.
I see that some front line medical staff are putting their mask in a plastic bag overnight and some are even spraying it with disinfectant before reuse (which may impair them).
At least get a few masks and cycle through them so the virus has enough time to die before reusing the same mask.
Take care out there....
Select to expand quoteStorm Ahead said..MagicRide said..
Every time I need to get groceries, I wear a mask. I wear the same mask over again and when I get back from the store, I put it on my gear shifter in my truck for its next use. I'm pretty much the only one wearing a mask right now in the stores I'm at in my area.
You need to be very careful wearing the same mask over again due to the possibility of infecting yourself as the Virus can survive on most surfaces for several days.
I see that some front line medical staff are putting their mask in a plastic bag overnight and some are even spraying it with disinfectant before reuse (which may impair them).
At least get a few masks and cycle through them so the virus has enough time to die before reusing the same mask.
Take care out there....
From a discussion of this on Twitter, but at least it quotes sources:
Data from Stanford Engineering Professors @yicuistanford & Steven Chu show N95 masks can be decontaminated without decreasing filtration efficiency using 70C heat for 30 min. Alcohol & bleach should not be used.
Select to expand quoteStorm Ahead said..MagicRide said..
Every time I need to get groceries, I wear a mask. I wear the same mask over again and when I get back from the store, I put it on my gear shifter in my truck for its next use. I'm pretty much the only one wearing a mask right now in the stores I'm at in my area.
You need to be very careful wearing the same mask over again due to the possibility of infecting yourself as the Virus can survive on most surfaces for several days.
I see that some front line medical staff are putting their mask in a plastic bag overnight and some are even spraying it with disinfectant before reuse (which may impair them).
At least get a few masks and cycle through them so the virus has enough time to die before reusing the same mask.
Take care out there....
Very good point!
Select to expand quoteManawa said..
REALITY IN Italy:
__
And now Russian army in Italy today to help us:
it.sputniknews.com/italia/202003268905873-i-militari-russi-arrivano-a-bergamo-per-combattere-il-coronavirus/
Ufficial number site web
www.salute.gov.it/nuovocoronavirus
Hope this help to understand Reality.
Oh hell. Are they trucking bodies into Brescia in convoys?
I know it won't help, Manawa, but my best wishes to you.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..Pacey said..
To put exponential growth in a more easily understood form for people who don't think this disease is serious:
Illustrative but somewhat misleading. Part of the increase is from more testing capacity now. The actual increase is about 4x each week. Under testing is still a big issue: the actual number of infections in the US is roughly 30-times higher than reported numbers (although this factor is going down now). Details at covid19science.blogspot.com/2020/03/how-bad-is-covid-19-epidemic-in-usa.html
I agree, a lot of the increase in the past two weeks is catchup because the US did so badly with testing initially.But I believe you are correct that the situation in the US is far worse than the numbers show.
In my opinion, all the discussion on other threads about how COVID-19 is no worse than the flu and how lockdowns are an overreaction are going to look pretty stupid in a couple of weeks when the true magnitude of the ****storm about to hit the US becomes clear.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..Manawa said..
REALITY IN Italy:
__
And now Russian army in Italy today to help us:
it.sputniknews.com/italia/202003268905873-i-militari-russi-arrivano-a-bergamo-per-combattere-il-coronavirus/
Ufficial number site web
www.salute.gov.it/nuovocoronavirus
Hope this help to understand Reality.
Oh hell. Are they trucking bodies into Brescia in convoys?
I know it won't help, Manawa, but my best wishes to you.
Thank!
Yes Russia, USA and Cina are helping us.
The numbers are so high because there is an infection taking place inside the shelters for elderly people.
Select to expand quotePacey said..
In my opinion, all the discussion on other threads about how COVID-19 is no worse than the flu and how lockdowns are an overreaction are going to look pretty stupid in a couple of weeks when the true magnitude of the ****storm about to hit the US becomes clear.
A **storm would be much easier to deal with because you'd know when you get hit.
COVID-19 is sneaky. Even if everyone had symptoms, and a country would test every person with symptoms right away, the reported number of infections would still be 2 to 4-fold lower than the actual number of infections. It is worse for the number of deaths: people die (on average) almost 3 weeks after onset of symptoms. During this time, the number of infections grows at least 16-fold in countries where the growth is still exponential.
Even if a country would implement a _total_ house arrest, the number of infections would still at least double over the the course of the next two weeks due to in-household spreading. The number of daily deaths would continue to grow for 3 to 4 weeks.
It is extremely troubling to see top-level health experts like Dr. Birx in the US not understanding the very basics of how epidemics grow. Mathematicians tend to understand the problems quickly, but MDs often struggle, even if they worked in infectious diseases.
Select to expand quoteNotWal said..dandan321 said..
...all this panic for the flu??????
Covid is roughly 13 times more deadly than typical influenza.
Dandan321: SARS-COV-19 is a coronavirus, nothing to do with a human influenza virus. Average mortality rate is about 3-4% vs 0.1% for the flu. There is a large variation across ages. The true mortality rate might end up being lower, but the problem is that there is no immunity in the population, no vaccine, and no cure (as for most viral infections).
So if left uncontrolled you are looking at 30-50-70% of the world population getting infected. Let's be optimistic. Say 10% infected and 1% mortality rate. That is 800,000,000 infected and 8,000,000 dead.
But even much lower numbers of infection cases can quickly overwhelm a health system. Italy had 60,000 cases in two months (0.1% of the population) and its health care system is near collapse. And once the health system is overwhelmed mortality rates go up for COV-19 as well for all other diseases. In Italy they are already withdrawing clinical care from patients who have less chance of recovery. In Italy average mortality stands at 10%.
A question for the Medical Doctors reading. I want to ask your "medical feeling". In South Australia, social distancing requirements are now law:
www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/605055/Emergency-Management-GatheringsCOVID-19-Direction-2020_FINAL.pdf
Density requirement of a gathering: <= 1 person / 4m^2
A prohibited gathering: >10 people
At your average winter spot in SA:
- 15-40kt of wind
- 6-10 blokes parked up and out on the water
My experience with sailing:
- Nose runs when cold
- sweat (even in mid-winter)
- some people will cough during physical exercise and when adrenalin is pumping
- wind will carry water droplets some distance down wind (I estimate about 20-50m in 20-30kt of wind).
My question is: How isolated is Windsurfing ?. Are the above measures going to be effective for us when sailing ?
Select to expand quotejn1 said..
A question for the Medical Doctors reading. I want to ask your "medical feeling". In South Australia, social distancing requirements are now law:
www.sa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/605055/Emergency-Management-GatheringsCOVID-19-Direction-2020_FINAL.pdf
Density requirement of a gathering: 10 people
At your average winter spot in SA:
- 15-40kt of wind
- 6-10 blokes parked up and out on the water
My experience with sailing:
- Nose runs when cold
- sweat (even in mid-winter)
- some people will cough during physical exercise and when adrenalin is pumping
- wind will carry water droplets some distance down wind (I estimate about 20-50m in 20-30kt of wind).
My question is: How isolated is Windsurfing ?. Are the above measures going to be effective for us when sailing ?
Come to the US! 10 people on a windy day in the middle of the summer is what we call a busy day.
Oh, wait - maybe not such a good idea. We've got a few more confirmed infections than Oz, and the testing rate is probably still below 20% of symptomatic cases. Since 3 out of 4 infections are still in the incubation period during the rapid growth phase, and some are asymptomatic (but infectious), the actual numbers understate infections by at least 20-fold.
Around here, beaches are so already crowded with city dwellers that would usually not show up for a few more months that some beaches are closed already. Quite possible we'll be facing a summer with closed beaches. Or maybe I'm just in a bad mood because the top scientist for the virus is the US is a either a bloody liar or fricking incompetent.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..
Quite possible we'll be facing a summer with closed beaches.
Bad news for us, but probably a good conservative decision.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
The advice of attacking it immediately with the above methods after feeling a sore throat makes no sense as you have probably already got it. How someone would work out this approach is beyond my comprehension.
Another one for the MDs. FormulaNova Raised some good points but didn't get answered. Regarding the FNs question above, is covid-19 acting like a bacteria ?
I remember reading an article once of somebody infecting their lungs with Actinomyces when cleaning their teeth with an electric toothbrush. They transferred the bug from their mouth to their lungs. They got very ill. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Volkerding
Does covid19 have the same mechanics ? - where virus has infected the mouth/throat, but can go no further ? (held at bay by the immune system ?)
Worth watching:
