Select to expand quotePhilUK said..Mark _australia said..
Likewise though, if you buy a FREERIDE board that is not 'normal' construction, jumping it IS going to crease the bottom. Like this example right here.
Thats odd, they dont mention that in their brochure. They should really put a warning about jumping.
windsurf.star-board.com/windsurf-board-construction-technology/starlite-carbon-technology/
The lightest and highest performance budget-friendly technology. Thanks to its full carbon bottom and a deck built from 0.6mm Australian pine wood sandwich wrapped with Military grade-glass and laminated all with Bio Resin, Starlite Carbon offers an unprecedented level of high quality in a value package with an excellent finish.?
We developed the Starlite Carbon Construction to answer our quest for a construction that would combine four crucial factors: Performance, Durability, Value and Low Environmental Impact. The result is a great combination, delivering strongly on all four criteria with direct, responsive onwater feel and no compromise on your riding comfort.
Want to get airborne? The aerodynamic nose lets you fly and remain at top speed with full control.
WTF is Military grade-glass?
If you look at their picture of the layers of materials used, there is 1 layer of biaxal-carbon, 1 layer of glass, and a PVC sticker? No sandwich?
I've seen 2 carbon Futura boards with their 'aerodynamic nose' (wide and thin concept) crack from deck to bottom about 40cm long after a catapult hit.
If people dont complain about their poor quality boards, then they will continue as is.
Exactly no sandwich on bottom, a layer of carbon biax and glass over. And not so heavy weight from what i repair on board from them.
Military glass is blabla like aeroglass or arrospace foam ie pvc.
With care, good density foam and fibers, right reinforcement where needed it's possible to build boards that do job well at good price with this "simple" tech. But not if you cut everywhere for reduce prices. At cobra they know how to build them better than anyone it just how much buyer paid.
Wow! Seems my "event" has started a lively debate here 
Ranging from "the manufacturer is totally at fault in misrepresenting their product" on one extreme, to "you're a pathetic beginner who doesn't know how to catapult properly, so it's all your fault" on the other extreme 
I suppose the latter is thoroughly possible, but I'm guessing even the super experienced have some pretty violent catapults on at least rare occasion - so they might want their board to be able to survive it
Just a bit frustrated, but I really do appreciate the input/advice - sincerely, I do.
So to me (the lowly neophyte who's clueless about the details of all the various manufacturing techniques), the practical question is:
Which board can I get that is pretty freakin' durable that is in the 150 liter range that won't break the bank? Durability (not top performance) being the primary criteria.
Seems like the consensus is that Cobra and Kinetic are brands (???) that fit the bill, but I'll research some more 
Select to expand quotenuteman said..
Wow! Seems my "event" has started a lively debate here
Ranging from "the manufacturer is totally at fault in misrepresenting their product" on one extreme, to "you're a pathetic beginner who doesn't know how to catapult properly, so it's all your fault" on the other extreme
I suppose the latter is thoroughly possible, but I'm guessing even the super experienced have some pretty violent catapults on at least rare occasion - so they might want their board to be able to survive it
Just a bit frustrated, but I really do appreciate the input/advice - sincerely, I do.
So to me (the lowly neophyte who's clueless about the details of all the various manufacturing techniques), the practical question is:
Which board can I get that is pretty freakin' durable that is in the 150 liter range that won't break the bank? Durability (not top performance) being the primary criteria.
Seems like the consensus is that Cobra and Kinetic are brands (???) that fit the bill, but I'll research some more
The most durable board I've had new is a fanatic blast 145 in LTS construction. I'm hoping Duotone kept the same construction but I don't know. It took all my learning to plane catapults and whacks (and I've ranged 190-210lbs during that time), as well as all my learning to foiling catapults and whacks with only a nose protector. Still feels solid with only minor crack repairs.
I'm looking at my starboard boards with a side eye now though.
Select to expand quotenuteman said..
Durability (not top performance) being the primary criteria.
From Starboard you have the Start Rhino, as an example.
Select to expand quoteSchobiHH said..geoITA said..Mark _australia said..
It's not a starboard thing. It's their deliberately cheap n cheerful entry level construction. The wood/carbon an PVC sandwich Carve can be ridden like that for years. The Starlight, nope. but the proper construction is more expensive.
other brands also do a real basic heavy laminate that is going to last like a full sandwich board.
where r u located?
A "reputable" manufacturer would NEVER sell boards built that way anyhow.
it is the brands and not Cobra who sell the boards. And the brands decide what quality they want. Cobra is just the one who is producing the product to the specification of the seller. And the seller defines every little detail what goes into the board.
You are perfectly right.
Still, a reputable brand would NEVER build such crap.
Select to expand quotegeoITA said..SchobiHH said..geoITA said..Mark _australia said..
It's not a starboard thing. It's their deliberately cheap n cheerful entry level construction. The wood/carbon an PVC sandwich Carve can be ridden like that for years. The Starlight, nope. but the proper construction is more expensive.
other brands also do a real basic heavy laminate that is going to last like a full sandwich board.
where r u located?
A "reputable" manufacturer would NEVER sell boards built that way anyhow.
it is the brands and not Cobra who sell the boards. And the brands decide what quality they want. Cobra is just the one who is producing the product to the specification of the seller. And the seller defines every little detail what goes into the board
You are perfectly right.
Still, a reputable brand would NEVER build such crap.
Everybody is allowed to have his opinion. But I have the feeling we do not know the whole story. Nuteman also killed one of his sails after 1.5 years of use. I wonder if there is more information needed have the full picture. I.e. you can kill every board if you use it hard. You can kill every nose if you do beginner catapults where the mast hits the board full speed. This kind of catapult an experienced windsurfer never does. I have seen that several times. A friend of mine who is selling beginner boards a lot can tell you stories about killed noses.... And then the customer says this is a warranty case.... And the brand doesn't matter or even "custom boards" which they sell. You can kill every board if you do not use it with care and skill
Having seen how starboard throws putty at manufacturing defects I'd never buy a board from them.
Somehow Goya/Quattro gets cobra to make way better boards. Others too but not always.
Kenetic (Simmer) are consistently better though.
Could someone give me some tips on how to perform an "expert catapult"? Seems like a pretty complex move and something I should work on once I've mastered the Vulcan.
Select to expand quotePanno said..
Could someone give me some tips on how to perform an "expert catapult"? Seems like a pretty complex move and something I should work on once I've mastered the Vulcan.
In the expert catapult you use your foot to push the nose of the board out of the way while flying past. Best learned in conjunction with the body drag or non-strapped forward.
Select to expand quotePanno said..
Could someone give me some tips on how to perform an "expert catapult"? Seems like a pretty complex move and something I should work on once I've mastered the Vulcan.
Never let go of the boom. It'll save you a lot of trouble in many other aspects of windsurfing too. Just hang on.
Select to expand quotejdfoils said..
In the expert catapult you use your foot to push the nose of the board out of the way while flying past. Best learned in conjunction with the body drag or non-strapped forward.
You only have a split second, not sure if this works. Generally you'll realise that you catapulted when you're already in the water
You do sorta learn to turn the slow motion catapaults into softer landings, and get a lot better at not doing them in the first place. but its really not a case of better sailors doing "expert" catapaults. If anything an "expert" catapault inflicts a lot more damage than beginner ones, since you'r e travelling at higher speeds loaded up. You get to inevitably in a split second. There is no seeing it coming like you do in the beginner years. If you can see the catapault coming it means you're not going fast enough.
I love catapults. You should all do more. the boards are designed to be flogged.
use it, abuse it, then Moz it. /repeat
In order of difficulty:
Hold on to the boom.
Slice the mast away from the nose as you go over (hopefully without landing on it).
Turn it into a forward loop.
It's not your fault. Nothing windsurfing is made to last any more, and at least it's (fairly) easy to repair. Repair it and thrash it
Select to expand quoteptsf1111 said..Panno said..
Could someone give me some tips on how to perform an "expert catapult"? Seems like a pretty complex move and something I should work on once I've mastered the Vulcan.
Never let go of the boom. It'll save you a lot of trouble in many other aspects of windsurfing too. Just hang on.
Just for the record: On this particular catapult, I did not lose hold of the boom.
Select to expand quoteSchobiHH said..geoITA said..SchobiHH said..geoITA said..Mark _australia said..
It's not a starboard thing. It's their deliberately cheap n cheerful entry level construction. The wood/carbon an PVC sandwich Carve can be ridden like that for years. The Starlight, nope. but the proper construction is more expensive.
other brands also do a real basic heavy laminate that is going to last like a full sandwich board.
where r u located?
A "reputable" manufacturer would NEVER sell boards built that way anyhow.
it is the brands and not Cobra who sell the boards. And the brands decide what quality they want. Cobra is just the one who is producing the product to the specification of the seller. And the seller defines every little detail what goes into the board
You are perfectly right.
Still, a reputable brand would NEVER build such crap.
Everybody is allowed to have his opinion. But I have the feeling we do not know the whole story. Nuteman also killed one of his sails after 1.5 years of use. I wonder if there is more information needed have the full picture. I.e. you can kill every board if you use it hard. You can kill every nose if you do beginner catapults where the mast hits the board full speed. This kind of catapult an experienced windsurfer never does. I have seen that several times. A friend of mine who is selling beginner boards a lot can tell you stories about killed noses.... And then the customer says this is a warranty case.... And the brand doesn't matter or even "custom boards" which they sell. You can kill every board if you do not use it with care and skill
Yes, the full picture is that I have "only" 4 years total windsurfing experience and I was under the naive impression that a "relatively" high-end sail and board would handle some reasonable level of unintentional "abuse". I know better now
Regarding the sail - it's clear from various responses on that post that many sails are simply not as tough as others - and the price reflects it in my case - the Gator being double the price of the Convert (at least from my dealer).
Regarding the board - Yes, it has suffered many a catapult, and as I progressed to higher speed those catapults got more violent (though, again, I'm typically catapulting an average of once per session by now). I'm wondering if the damage was cumulative and finally that last relatively mild catapult was the one that was "one too much".
Not making excuses, but I'm lucky to get conditions of less than 60 cm wave height and serious chop and speed boats and jets skis, blah, blah. So I guess I need to face reality and buy the most durable equipment I can get.
Now I know why the rental equipment is built like a tank here - they don't want to be replacing it non-stop. I guess I should have figured that out before I was peddled the "good" stuff.
Truths:
Its not relatively high end. It is the cheapest most basic construction of any freeride board.
Almost all freerides are not designed to be jumped like that.
Almost all boards will break like that from repeated downward nose impacts.
It is however very repairable, and if I were you I would do so. Plenty of online advice re: how to fix it and if you don't care about pretty, its not really hard. I fix far worse breaks - daily.
And from your other thread - if you bake a sail in the sun to the extent it fades like that, it has UV damage. It will fail.
This is not a Starboard thing (albeit that I am not a fan of them), nor is it a Severne Convert thing (The Gator is better but if you sun-damage it like that the same will happen one day). You are going hard on average stuff.
If you have limited access to stuff due to location, buy as good as you can, and learn to repair things. The sail repair could have been down with stickyback dacron and no stitching and last well. The board needs only epoxy resin (not glue) and fibreglass for a basic (strong but ugly) repair.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Truths:
Its not relatively high end. It is the cheapest most basic construction of any freeride board.
Almost all freerides are not designed to be jumped like that.
Almost all boards will break like that from repeated downward nose impacts.
It is however very repairable, and if I were you I would do so. Plenty of online advice re: how to fix it and if you don't care about pretty, its not really hard. I fix far worse breaks - daily.
And from your other thread - if you bake a sail in the sun to the extent it fades like that, it has UV damage. It will fail.
This is not a Starboard thing (albeit that I am not a fan of them), nor is it a Severne Convert thing (The Gator is better but if you sun-damage it like that the same will happen one day). You are going hard on average stuff.
If you have limited access to stuff due to location, buy as good as you can, and learn to repair things. The sail repair could have been down with stickyback dacron and no stitching and last well. The board needs only epoxy resin (not glue) and fibreglass for a basic (strong but ugly) repair.
Mark,
Thanks for the very clear info.
I do a lot of my own repair work in other areas (car, home, etc.), so I guess I'll need to add windsurfing equipment to the list at some point.
The issue of getting tools, parts and materials for repair is the most challenging part of the equation in my locale. Finding time is not exactly trivial for me either (I'd rather spend that time on the water), so I'll give the shop a go at it. They want the equivalent of $485 USD for it - I have no clue if that's reasonable or not...
The only way to decide if there was a failure in the manufacturing is to get someone experienced in board repair to have a look at the board.
Brands should put a warning on their website to say whether the board construction is ok to jump or not. But you can see they just bang on about how great their boards are (as I copied on page 1).
Select to expand quotenuteman said.. , so I'll give the shop a go at it. They want the equivalent of $485 USD for it - I have no clue if that's reasonable or not...
Oh my
Can you get a sander and the required materials?That is very pricey....
To buy the basic powertool equipment and 10x more resin than needed, and glass, would be about $150USD here.
Its not a structurally significant area, nor does it have to be shaped perfect for the board to work well.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..nuteman said.. , so I'll give the shop a go at it. They want the equivalent of $485 USD for it - I have no clue if that's reasonable or not...
Oh my
Can you get a sander and the required materials?That is very pricey....
To buy the basic powertool equipment and 10x more resin than needed, and glass, would be about $150USD here.
Its not a structurally significant area, nor does it have to be shaped perfect for the board to work well.
I guess I need to decide if I have the time for the research/hunt/purchase of all that here. I have no clue about what tools, resin and glass to get. From the one or two youtube videos I've seen on laying glass cloth, it looks like I could easily mess it up.
Typically, power tools and repair materials are at least double what they'd be in USA, if you can get 'em here at all. But the cost is not the primary issue - it would only pay to invest the time if I forsee doing this kind of stuff often.
Select to expand quotePhilUK said..
Starlite Carbon offers an unprecedented level of high quality in a value package with an excellent finish.?
Marketing buzzwords. The customer assumes they mean a high level of quality despite being a value package, but what they actually mean is a high level of high quality for a value package. Unfortunately one only understands the nuanced difference after the board turns into a banana. Whether that tradeoff in durability for low price is positive or not is a different debate.
I've got a 2106 Atom IQ in the wood core construction. That board has taken an absolute pummeling and is only just starting to indicate end of life. Seems to me that SB's construction has become a bit more fragile in recent years. Next board will be Carbon Art.
I jumped off of my GF's 2019 Starboard Carve the in waist deep water other day and slightly clipped the deck of the board with my harness hook as I jumped down. I was really surprised to see the large hole this created. I'm not convinced modern Starboards are made from anything more than cheese.
Select to expand quoteAoetearoaSailor said..
I jumped off of my GF's 2019 Starboard Carve the in waist deep water other day and slightly clipped the deck of the board with my harness hook as I jumped down. I was really surprised to see the large hole this created. I'm not convinced modern Starboards are made from anything more than cheese.
Swiss cheese
