Hi, as I see that old boards are really cheap, instead of waiting for my kid to learn on
my current boards, maybe I can buy an oldie that feels better, and something I could enjoy riding just for pleasure.
I currently own a Tabou 105 Rocket 61, a BIC Core 148, a Mistral Edge 98, a Bic Rock and also a Fanatic SUP that can get a sail. This is new, but I don't feel like teaching anyone nothing on it as it looks like a giant pencil eraser.
if you think that the SUP (inflatable) would be better than a vintage "model X or volume or length" that I could seek, I will keep quiet. If not... I will try to get one. Yesterday a friend remembered me that we learnt with Sodim Eclax... is that brand known to anyone?
I saw a Mistral Expression today but I think is too small to learn.
second question: I remember that when we where young the sail to learn was the big one and you just try until you get it, as the double jump in motocross was just tries until you don't brake your bones or your wrists. For my kid (13), the 2,5M learning sail is too small. Could I use my NP 3,70 or something small for when wind is hard, or they should learn with what???
cheers!
JP
Double, triple, fence, road, extreme drop off.....only consideration is speed and distance.
Height is determined by ramp angle.
WE learned windsurfing as an adult.
Kids weigh less, need smaller sails, and often can learn with much smaller boards.
LeeD you are hiding suspension pre-comp... can make it or kill you if not gauged right :-)
well, I will start with the SUP and 3,70
by the way: my "kid" is only 10cm shorter and 20KG lighter than me. But he says the sail is too big powerful and heavy... any of them :-)
1981 Sears Point Nationals.
Walking the track at 7AM, we found a drop-off jump about 15 feet onto a hardpack slight uphill.
The ramp down was about 30 degrees, needing a speed of around 20 mph. The run up was off a slippery hairpin 1st gear clutch slip, and maybe 200 feet.
1st practice, everyone, including McGoo and Glover, braked hard and slowed to ride down the ramp. I stopped before the drop-off after 5 practice laps and watched a no name 250 Pro hit it full speed, 4th gear, after taking a never used outside line around the hairpin.
Scuttlebutt at the pits.
2nd practice, everyone used the outside line, full powered to hit the drop-off in 4th gear, and easily landed......except Goat Breaker, who snapped his frame.
I DNF'd after crashing at the road jump while in around 28th.
That early walks... only birds in the atmosphere and the eventual engine screaming at the pits...
I had 2 loved sports: windsurfing and MX. The former one is the only one I would take my kids too. MX is to good to be healthy.
80% of my racing, I worked nightshift, 6-4am, then drove 2 hours to the races, drove back home at 5, then worked Sunday night shift.
No wonder I sucked at racing.
Lucky for me, in summer there were CMC night races, which I excelled at.
I've seen 100 lbs kids, maybe 13, easily learn on 150 liter boards. Sails smaller than 4.0.
It depends on lots of factors. How often can your kids get to the water? Can they get down when the wind is blowing, or just at a set time? Will they sail in a light wind location or a strong wind area? How much chop? How athletic are they? What other sports do they do? What sort of personality do they have? How much spare cash do you have?
Anything from a waveboard to an old 12 footer can be the best board, depending on the individual and their situation. It's a bit like asking what house you should buy or what sort of holiday you should go on.
Hi!
They play soccer. The oldest one is 13 y/o and weights 50kg, is 1,55 tall. They can go to the water anytime. The winds here are usually 7knots and peaks at 10 to 15 in the afternoons. There are windier days but those are average. And the chop is midsize, Mediterranean coast. It depends on wind direction but mostly comes onshore at an angle that makes up haul just across the waves :-)
Hi!
They play soccer. The oldest one is 13 y/o and weights 50kg, is 1,55 tall. They can go to the water anytime. The winds here are usually 7knots and peaks at 10 to 15 in the afternoons. There are windier days but those are average. And the chop is midsize, Mediterranean coast. It depends on wind direction but mostly comes onshore at an angle that makes up haul just across the waves :-)Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
80% of my racing, I worked nightshift, 6-4am, then drove 2 hours to the races, drove back home at 5, then worked Sunday night shift.
No wonder I sucked at racing.
Lucky for me, in summer there were CMC night races, which I excelled at.
I found it much easier to drive TO the race than FROM it. Worst one was a Rally in Patagonia. I drove 1000 miles to get to the race, raced a full week with no mechanic no nothing in a KDX 200 2 strokes, serviced all the issues myself, and luckily won my category. I think it was 2 strokes as a class and It was a 2000KM race, no wonder the last one standing won... My plan was to get the trophy and drive straight back home. I think our first stop was in the side of the road about 10KM after starting coming back home. I guess we spent 24hs or so returning... The bike? Exhaust valves gone, no rear suspension and full of dents. But working!
KDX 200's were great woods bikes.
I bought new KX 125, 420, and 500. I'm a scared cat when it comes to Enduro, Hare, and scrambles, so only raced MX.
Also had new RM 125 and 3 used 250's and RM 500.
Bad starts always had me envious of Hondas.
I hope I'm not banned because of MX comments here :-)
What a feeling to ride a KX125, it was my second bike. The last was a KTM200 for enduro also, it was year 2000. A 500? That was too big for me, the biggest I tried was an YZ420 from the eighties. It was so natural for me then and now I feel it is not the sport to do or follow. I used to think "how do we ruin nature, we just do some trails?"... but now it seems that a screaming motocrosser in the woods or outdoors makes too much damage. I associate it with the jetskis and others in the sea. In a closed track, seems more fair for everyone. But I loved woods and long races. Ages ago...
Back on track, got to be a Windrush Clubman, you can teach your kids and the neighbours kids all at the same time.
If you can find any of the old rotomould boards from Tencate, Tiga, Hifli etc with a centre board in good condition they will learn easily. A centreboard will allow them to go upwind in the light stuff easily and provides stability. Or go for one of the wide 150+ltr boards for plenty of stability.
Select to expand quoteairsail said..
Back on track, got to be a Windrush Clubman, you can teach your kids and the neighbours kids all at the same time.
If you can find any of the old rotomould boards from Tencate, Tiga, Hifli etc with a centre board in good condition they will learn easily. A centreboard will allow them to go upwind in the light stuff easily and provides stability. Or go for one of the wide 150+ltr boards for plenty of stability.
Yes! I saw some Tigas and Tencate in local listings. I like the idea of the centreboard for what you say. I will research what you say about Windrush Clubman, first time I read that. Thanks!, JP
The Windrush was an Australian board so won't be available there.
If there's open water and a significant chop you may be better off with a wider beginners board like a Starboard Go, or a Bic Techno 293.
They both have centreboards, which can be critical in keeping boards off the beach when they are using small sails.
I can recall the Sodim boards. The newer widestyle boards will be more stable in the chop, which is one area where the old narrow boards cause problems to beginners. In flat water the longboards can be great, and a Tiga or TC could be available at very low cost.
In your situation I'd be tempted to use the windsup at first, if it can be fitted with a simple fin, just to get a feel for the sport and for what your kids want. The 2.5 is good in some ways because a 13 year old can handle it easily, but they won't really get the feel for the power and for leaning back. A NP 3.7 wavesail is going to be heavier and underpowered for its size compared to a SUP sail like a Starboard SUP sail 4.5. These sails can be about half the weight of a "normal" sail because they don't have all those heavy battens, and with the deep shape they provide more power for their size (at the cost of being twitchier and slower in strong winds; everything is a compromise).
We've taught dozens of people and found that it can be very good to switch back and forth from a light, easily-handled sail to a more powerful one. They each teach different skills.
Hi!
My SUP is a Fanatic Viper that has the hole for the mast and 2 fins so it "could" go upwind.
The 2,5 sails is too small unless in hard wind and then he starts to hang down like a monkey instead of using a proper stance. Maybe instead of buying an old board I can look for a small sail in that shape you advice me to. Then, if a longboard with a centreboard appears I can add it to the rig. Where we all wrong back in the 80's when we thought that sailing with both feet pointing forward planted on the inside edge was the top of coolness? Haha, I have to learn the current state of the art :-)
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
The Windrush was an Australian board so won't be available there.
If there's open water and a significant chop you may be better off with a wider beginners board like a Starboard Go, or a Bic Techno 293.
They both have centreboards, which can be critical in keeping boards off the beach when they are using small sails.
I can recall the Sodim boards. The newer widestyle boards will be more stable in the chop, which is one area where the old narrow boards cause problems to beginners. In flat water the longboards can be great, and a Tiga or TC could be available at very low cost.
In your situation I'd be tempted to use the windsup at first, if it can be fitted with a simple fin, just to get a feel for the sport and for what your kids want. The 2.5 is good in some ways because a 13 year old can handle it easily, but they won't really get the feel for the power and for leaning back. A NP 3.7 wavesail is going to be heavier and underpowered for its size compared to a SUP sail like a Starboard SUP sail 4.5. These sails can be about half the weight of a "normal" sail because they don't have all those heavy battens, and with the deep shape they provide more power for their size (at the cost of being twitchier and slower in strong winds; everything is a compromise).
We've taught dozens of people and found that it can be very good to switch back and forth from a light, easily-handled sail to a more powerful one. They each teach different skills.
I agree with Chris,
he has plenty of instructing experience with kids. I also instruct kids and adults.
for a school, a wide board like a starboard start is essential for first lesson or two - especially with heavier or less co-ordinated students. Wider boards work better with the really small beginner rigs than a long board. The problem I've found with shorter wider boards in light winds is that even with a daggerboard, students tend to drift sideways a lot and don't get the forward drive until they advance a little. Great for establishing the basics however.
starboard Rios are good also and not a board board to buy as they are a good alrounder that the kids can develop on over a wide wind range.
ive also been teaching beginners on a Windsurfer LT with 3.5 or 4.5 beginner rigs, they are super light as they have tiny masts and booms. Sup style rigs, some older sails without battens but with short booms (not surf style more recreational low end sails) or things like the bic nova kits are good. The longer narrower board almost immediately gives them forward thrust once the sail gets a breeze. I've had first timers get on the LT (after demos and practice on simulator onshore) hop on, pull up a small rig sail away, turn and return to shore!
Best to find a cheap compromise board, not too narrow and for a 55kg kid a 4m beginner sail. I've found too small a sail on longer boards will hold back development for reasons mentioned by a few above. They need to feel the power and learn back and a long board needs a sail with a bit of power and full profile.
great your kids are interested. Enjoy the journey. They will be sailing some of your regular boards in no time.
Select to expand quoteairsail said..
Back on track, got to be a Windrush Clubman, you can teach your kids and the neighbours kids all at the same time.
If you can find any of the old rotomould boards from Tencate, Tiga, Hifli etc with a centre board in good condition they will learn easily. A centreboard will allow them to go upwind in the light stuff easily and provides stability. Or go for one of the wide 150+ltr boards for plenty of stability.
Many years ago, i taught people on the old ten cate Beacher. Similar in many ways to the original windsurfer, however, A little wider than the old windsurfer and very stable. Slow though - but good for learning. BIC and hi fly also made some wider longboards Targetted for beginners that you should be able to pick up for next to nothing.
Thanks a lot to you all. I also agree that the sail must make him feel the power and that type
and size you suggest will be just right. I remember that one day he took a class with an instructor that used a really wide Starboard. I don't want to buy one of those because I guess they are costlier than a vintage longboard, but maybe I could think in future students as I have 3 kids and the smallest is 6 now...
I would not say the ARE interested... they would love to sail like dad but not to put the hours into learning. But as I know they will really enjoy it afterwards, I try to create the conditions. I used to have to drive 400 KM to see the ocean as a kid... now I live 6 blocks from it. My dream is for them to shout "daddy, I go to sail a few hours down to the beach and back" anytime soon. Who on earth could NOT love to windsurf knowing the sport?
i built a tricke with an old set of steel bars, wheels from a salvaged bicycle and a front fork from another one that I take to the beach with an old Dutch bike I also found discarded in a camping... just to be able to avoid having to pick up the van. My dream is for them to do this alone soon, but I'm fighting against the evil that invented PlayStation it seems. I will finally succeed!
I just found a Fanatic Cobra 366cm long close to my town. Maybe I can get it for 50?
looks really old school in that guy's image leaning back :-)
If you don't want to buy kids specific gear then I would try the very first session with the 3.7 on the SUP and after that the Core 148. Lighter sails make it less frustrating for kids, larger boards don't steer well with small sails but a centreboard or centre fin can make going forwards and upwind easier. If you have a light carbon RDM mast and a light boom with a skinny grip then the 3.7 could be ok. But if you have three kids then buying kids specific gear is worth it if you can afford multiple boards for yourself.
I too had a Kawasaki KDX200. An air cooled model, I think it was a D model from 1988.
In regards to beginner boards we have most probably the best beginner board ever, an RRD EasyRide. If you or anyone else wants a beginners board then call out. I'll sell it at a reasonable price.
Select to expand quoteholgs said..
If you don't want to buy kids specific gear then I would try the very first session with the 3.7 on the SUP and after that the Core 148. Lighter sails make it less frustrating for kids, larger boards don't steer well with small sails and a centreboard or centre fin can make going forwards and upwind easier. If you have a light carbon RDM mast and a light boom with a skinny grip then the 3.7 could be ok. But if you have three kids then buying kids specific gear is worth it if you can afford multiple boards for yourself.
I have a rather light SDM mast (75% carbon) and the kids boom but I ignore if it matches the mast. Tomorrow I will send him to a class with a profesional trainer, then I will take him with the SUP and the 3,7. Thanks!
Select to expand quoteMobydisc said..
I too had a Kawasaki KDX200. An air cooled model, I think it was a D model from 1988.
In regards to beginner boards we have most probably the best beginner board ever, an RRD EasyRide. If you or anyone else wants a beginners board then call out. I'll sell it at a reasonable price.
Thanks for the offer but I suspect the shipping to Spain will make it too expensive :-)
What a bunch of overthinking it 
As long as it is wide (= stable) and won't drift downwind (ie: a SUP with one rear fin is not good) it will do.
The centre daggerboard assists with both stability (resisting rocking side to side) and not drifting downwind.
You can teach kids on anything, but its a no-brainer that a wide SUP with a daggerboard added is most accessable if you don't have something like a Starboard Go / Start
Solutions such as a kitchen chopping board with suction cups thru to install of a tuttle box in the middle are all over the web.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
What a bunch of overthinking it
As long as it is wide (= stable) and won't drift downwind (ie: a SUP with one rear fin is not good) it will do.
The centre daggerboard assists with both stability (resisting rocking side to side) and not drifting downwind.
You can teach kids on anything, but its a no-brainer that a wide SUP with a daggerboard added is most accessable if you don't have something like a Starboard Go / Start
Solutions such as a kitchen chopping board with suction cups thru to install of a tuttle box in the middle are all over the web.
I agree. I'm overthinking but maybe that's the goal? Just to share some ideas and explore options? It is not urgent, I'm not looking for a single definitive solution, and If we go wrong, we can correct. My SUP will be the first option, it HAS a daggerboard but it is really small, tiny. It looks exactly as the rear one (it is identical). I think it's size is a compromise between helping going upwind and lateral resistance of the SUP structure (inflatable Fanatic Viper). Thanks to you all, indeed.
As is the case with any of us, it's down to TOW!
You don't need a definitive best option, but with your range of gear available, you should make sure something roughly suitable is at hand whenever the family gets close to the water. My kids have never had a specific board, but when they were little, I always took two little kids' rigs on holiday with us. A lot of days the sails wrere in the van widely ignored, some time was spent fooling around on the beach with them and mimicking the sailors out there. When on the water, they were on anything from a Starboard Carve 121 to a Ricci FSW 90, but they were light then. Being pretty tall and heavy already, your son can get away with a light adults sail (and yes, the 2,5 is way too small). My son has been sailing on light regular sails since he was about 35 kilos and surprisingly they work.
Let him try the SUP, then the 148!
Depending on the situation, you might even give a f.... about them drifting downwind. My kids were lucky to learn in places where drifting downwind meant a walk back up only and wouldn't know what a centre fin or a dagger board is. Eventually things align and they plan upwind easier than you could hoe for yourself.
You say it's not urgent? I couldn't disagree more, as it's not about getting it perfect but about offering them the chance to love the sport with no added pressure. Let them muck around and have fun!
And don't you even think about getting that old Cobra for the purpose. This is torture! I can already envision the kids not wanting to sail and their father lamenting that they took the effort of dragging the tanker to the beach and now they don't appreciate that. Trust me, I've sen that done and none of the kids involved ever became windsurfers.
Some of them even strated to kitesurf!
That Cobra is only worth being turned into a Freeride Tandem!
Select to expand quoteZeeGerman said..
Some of them even strated to kitesurf!
I REALLY HOPE YOU ARE WRONG!
I will take your advice and the one from those that suggest to start with the SUP and a small sail. I'm taking him now to a training session with an instructor, and I will see what type of sail do he manage. I'm sure they will give him a Starboard more wide than long.
Whit that last phrase you really put the fear in my mind! Please God, avoid that sin!
