Hi guys still learning. So I bought a second hand package and one of the sails the main one I want to use is a tushinghame 5.1m sail with 4.40luff length. I think it has a adjustable head strap. The smallest mast I have is 460. Can I use this or do I need to get a 430 with extension.cheers guys.
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
It will be fine for what you're doing
Cheers mark. Appreciate the advice. Feel so amateur. In the lessons we learnt to rig the sail but the mast was already setup. I didn't realise there were so many options when I bought this package. Ultimately i bought this package coz i could only afford the money I spend but just seen another package comeup that would of been better but double the price. Always the case.
I use a 460 mast in my Maui 7m ( luff 454 cm) but I rig it on 462cm as the foot of the sail like all other race sails is cut way,way too low. It works just fine.
as Mark_from_Australia says - "it will be fine"
sometimes we worry too much
when beginning , one wants it to work - and not striving for perfection
if we are not racing or speed sailing - the ideal is NOT necessary
back in the day , many people rigged as follows
and had a lot of fun and there were MANY
over one foot extra - maybe so as not to hit the young lady 
and yeah, i agree, a windsurf lesson should start at the beach with some equipment rigging
If the Tush has the adjustable head, the 460 should be peachy.
you are going on length only, to,obtain the performance intended the mast curve needs to be compatible with the sail, being at the wrong end of the curve spectrum will cause loss of performance.
At your level this is not a requirement to worry over.
I have a different outlook on it.
Since windsurfing is so difficult to learn, I would think he would want the rig to be as user friendly as possible to accommodate with the learning curve. When I look back on learing to windsurf, I wish I would have taken lessons And I wish I knew about a windsurfing site like this to learn from and ask questions.
I can begin by saying that your 460 mast is too long and stiff for your 5 meter sail. You will probably find when you rig your 5 meter sail on your 460 mast is your battons will not rotate properly, your sail will not have a very good shape to it. These issues will effect the performance on the water leading you to not understand the proper feel of the rig. You will be fighting the rig much more guaranteed.
I would say this: Learn windsurfing correctly the first time with the correct mast in the correct sail. Your learning curve will be so much better and you will progress so much faster with the correct matching gear. What it really comes down to is balance when your sailing. You want the rig to be as balanced as possible while the wind is flowing across the sail, and that will only happen when everything fits just right. I sure wish I had that education when I learned, now you do. This is fantastic, valuable and free advice right here.
One more thing to clear up my point! Imagine going to the store and buying a small pair of socks for someone who has large feet. Will they fit? You might be a able to tug and stretch them around the foot, but guaranteed they Will feel awkward, cause they don't fit the correct size foot. As little as the word, PERFORMANCE sounds, it really becomes a big deal when windsurfing. There are a lot of variables with windsurfing, and when something is out of wack, it needs to be brought to one's attention. Cuz once again, windsurfing is all about being in equilibrium, balance and insinc with your rig.
Good luck
Select to expand quotedroid84 said..
Hi guys still learning. So I bought a second hand package and one of the sails the main one I want to use is a tushinghame 5.1m sail with 4.40luff length. I think it has a adjustable head strap. The smallest mast I have is 460. Can I use this or do I need to get a 430 with extension.cheers guys.
Dear Droid 84,
You can use 460 mast with 5.1 sail. If your 5.1 sail is vario top then there is no problem. 460-440=20 cm Just leave 20 cm or 15 cm from top of the mast and adjust your extension to minimum lenght. Don't buy a second mast. If you buy a 430 cm second mast bealive me it won't change anything on your sail performance. I have got an old 465 mast which is %45 carbon I use this mast for all my sails.( 4.7 to 5.5 sqm). Bye
Melih.
I have to agree with Magic, Windsurfing is hard enough as it is. Ideally you should buy the lightest kit that you can that all works together (so no mismatched masts/sails). So an RDM mast at least 60% carbon. A full cross-ply sail. A thin carbon boom. Unlike a huge beginner board, these things will last and last and last and will still be useful to you as you progress. And committing serious money will make you less likely to throw in in the towel.
Does anyone think the late 1990's 5m Tushingham with adjustable head, with 20cm sticking out the top (not much) will feel worse than the 1 batten beginner sail he just used on the course?
I suggest it would actually feel better once he is getting properly powered later on.
Yes one day he will need a shorter mast an newer sails but he is learning. Saying it is not ideal is true but how close does it need to be? May as well tell him to sand fins or adjust batten tension.
Select to expand quoteMagic Ride said..
I have a different outlook on it.
Since windsurfing is so difficult to learn, I would think he would want the rig to be as user friendly as possible to accommodate with the learning curve. When I look back on learing to windsurf, I wish I would have taken lessons And I wish I knew about a windsurfing site like this to learn from and ask questions.
I can begin by saying that your 460 mast is too long and stiff for your 5 meter sail. You will probably find when you rig your 5 meter sail on your 460 mast is your battons will not rotate properly, your sail will not have a very good shape to it. These issues will effect the performance on the water leading you to not understand the proper feel of the rig. You will be fighting the rig much more guaranteed.
I would say this: Learn windsurfing correctly the first time with the correct mast in the correct sail. Your learning curve will be so much better and you will progress so much faster with the correct matching gear. What it really comes down to is balance when your sailing. You want the rig to be as balanced as possible while the wind is flowing across the sail, and that will only happen when everything fits just right. I sure wish I had that education when I learned, now you do. This is fantastic, valuable and free advice right here.
One more thing to clear up my point! Imagine going to the store and buying a small pair of socks for someone who has large feet. Will they fit? You might be a able to tug and stretch them around the foot, but guaranteed they Will feel awkward, cause they don't fit the correct size foot. As little as the word, PERFORMANCE sounds, it really becomes a big deal when windsurfing. There are a lot of variables with windsurfing, and when something is out of wack, it needs to be brought to one's attention. Cuz once again, windsurfing is all about being in equilibrium, balance and insinc with your rig.
Good luck
I think magic is smoking too much of the green stuff they grow in the forest down in Southern Oregon. The mast will work fine and you wont notice any difference, 99% of the windsurfers in the world wouldn't. Rigging the sail correctly would be more important than getting the right mast. Best suggestion is to get some advice from some experienced windsurfers on the beach who know what they are talking about. Get them to show you how to rig and set up your gear properly. Maybe magic should put one of those socks in it before giving advice in future!
Roo,
Your off base mate! Go back to the days when you learned to windsurf. Think about the gear you learned on and how hard it was to learn, but you obviously stuck with it and here you are today. I don't know what your skill level is today, but the bottom line is I'm sure you progressed a lot from when you learned.
Now when you learned to windsurf, did you have the proper gear? If you did, then you would have naturally progressed faster while having the right tools for the job, Or in other words, the right rig set up. If you had used the wrong size sails with the wrong size masts you would have progressed at a slower rate, there for if you stuck with it, you would have realized how much easier it would have been if you would have know or been informed to use the correct rig that matches. It's a no brainer!! It cracks me up why people act like they know what they're talking about in other posts with technical info, and then give foolish advise to a beginner who could really use some knowledgeable feedback for a proper setup. Come on Roo you know better!
So Roo ask yourself this,
Would you personally use a 460 mast on a 5.1 meter sail? Wouldn't that be going against what the windsurfing specs say for that specific rig setup?
Call any windsurfing shop or school and tell them you want to buy a 460 mast to fit a 5.1 meter sail. They will say, you're kidding right? Then they will laugh silently and suggest a setup in which makes sence.
Hate to say it magic but I would use a 460 on a 5.1 if it has an adjustable head cap. I would then set it up as low to the deck as possible and adjust both the outhaul and downhaul until I got the sail shaped correctly. Add is some batten tension and I would then strap on a gps and go out and test the sail. I'd then analyse the data I downhaul from the gps to maximise performance. I'd tune the sail until it was perfect then go out and find you on the water and give you the bird as I sail by. So yes I am a hypocrite and have no idea what I am talking about! You may want to lay off the weed in Klammath falls mate.
It could work fine, but it could also be terrible. You need to try it. Often beginners don't use enough downhaul due to poor technique and poor downhaul systems/old ropes. This amplifies their problem with a too stiff, long mast with a dodgy sail wrapped around it.
Roo,
The 460 mast is going to be way too stiff fot the 5.1... What's you're solution for that?
There for the battons won't set correctly regardless of batton tension and the shape of the sail will be off and will affect a lot of other variables along the way. Honestly, can you really preach that is a good choice setup for a beginner? I just strongly feel that's leading someone in the wrong direction.
You've really got no idea magic, you have no idea what mast he is using, no idea what stiffness and bend curve it is and no idea what type of Tushingham sail it is. Based on that, you would have to tune the sail to match the mast then test it to see if it works. I suggest you get get an idea some where! You have a pattern of giving lots of bad advice on a continual basis, I pity any poor bugger stupid enough to follow it. Suggest you go up to the Gorge and spend some time learning to windsurf properly then you may be qualified to advise a beginner.
Roo, you also have no idea if you think it will definitely work. Might, might not.
Select to expand quoteSparky said..
Roo, you also have no idea if you think it will definitely work. Might, might not.
Sparky that's why I said you would have to test and tune the sail to see if it works. Applies to any sail mast combo.
Roo,
I can't stop laughing here, but I will do my best to be a little more respectful. After all we're windsurfers right.
We have our differences which is obvious. Sounds like you have some valuable knowledge within the sport, but we can get caught up sometimes in heat of the moment sometimes.
Please understand that we all have room for improvements, which I believe is one of the reasons so many of us are drawn to the sport is because of its challenging abilities and so many different moves, tricks and maneuvers to conquer. I have sailed the Columbia Gorge and love it. Was just their last Summer and going again this Summer. I think after I Finish Physical Therapy School, I will move there ultimately.
Personally, I am self taught with zero lessons, learned the hard way, and no what works and learned from it. If I had to do it again, I would have taken lessons first, purchased equipment that was the correct size for my weight, skill level and conditions. No body in my family new any about windsurfing, so I had to learn myself. Money was tight when I was younger, so having the available gear wasn't an option. Internet was new and just starting to evolve. So I guess I made due with what I had then. But now there is so much info on the web and YouTube has taken off with all kinds of windsurfing videos for anything, any move, for any skill level. Amazing! !!
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!! Thx IMAX. You are truly the cats meow...I always say, love your avitar!! Very chillaxin looking cat. 
Select to expand quoteImax1 said..
FIGHT , FIGHT , FIGHT 
I dont feel the love in the room
I love gray pussies Imax1, loads of love in the room...my little grey moggie is curled up on the couch! Bit bored here with no wind and cold water.
Thankfully the Gorge is a big place so wont run into magic in the summer. Glad I amused you, wait till you see me sail...you'll fall over laughing.
I may have already run into Roo at the Columbia River Gorge and we never knew it. Wouldn't that be a surprise!! I will probably eventually run into Roo if I move their if I haven't already. Where in the Columbia Gorge do you primarily windsurf Roo?
Select to expand quoteSparky said..
You could park your Porsche next to his Astin Martin
Zoom, Zoom, Zoom. That sounds like the Mazda commercial . 
Select to expand quoteSparky said..
You could park your Porsche next to his Astin Martin
Jeez Sparky get it right. It's Aston not Astin as in Aston Martian!
Select to expand quoteRoo said..Sparky said..
You could park your Porsche next to his Astin Martin
Jeez Sparky get it right. It's Aston not Astin as in Aston Martian!
Dear Root, sorry your write. I blame smell cheque.
Can I get in on the love fest?
Look, the fella is learning. He didn't ask if it is an OK setup for winning the Nationals.
I challenge anyone to feel the difference in that sail, rigged right, on a 460 with adjustable head, vs on a 430 with 10cm extension. When used as the O.P will, which is 0 -15kn on the river for the next 12mths..............
Roo loves grey pussies and is about to have a magic ride?
On second thoughts, I'm out.
Select to expand quoteMagic Ride said..
I have a different outlook on it.
Since windsurfing is so difficult to learn, I would think he would want the rig to be as user friendly as possible to accommodate with the learning curve. When I look back on learing to windsurf, I wish I would have taken lessons And I wish I knew about a windsurfing site like this to learn from and ask questions.
I can begin by saying that your 460 mast is too long and stiff for your 5 meter sail. You will probably find when you rig your 5 meter sail on your 460 mast is your battons will not rotate properly, your sail will not have a very good shape to it. These issues will effect the performance on the water leading you to not understand the proper feel of the rig. You will be fighting the rig much more guaranteed.
I would say this: Learn windsurfing correctly the first time with the correct mast in the correct sail. Your learning curve will be so much better and you will progress so much faster with the correct matching gear. What it really comes down to is balance when your sailing. You want the rig to be as balanced as possible while the wind is flowing across the sail, and that will only happen when everything fits just right. I sure wish I had that education when I learned, now you do. This is fantastic, valuable and free advice right here.
One more thing to clear up my point! Imagine going to the store and buying a small pair of socks for someone who has large feet. Will they fit? You might be a able to tug and stretch them around the foot, but guaranteed they Will feel awkward, cause they don't fit the correct size foot. As little as the word, PERFORMANCE sounds, it really becomes a big deal when windsurfing. There are a lot of variables with windsurfing, and when something is out of wack, it needs to be brought to one's attention. Cuz once again, windsurfing is all about being in equilibrium, balance and insinc with your rig.
Good luck
Dear Magic Ride,
In my opinion you can not compare socks with sail. Two different subject. There are complicated physical rules between wind and sail. Like plane wings. I have one question for you. Why do the sail designers produce vario sails? Answer is very simple. To use the long mast with small sails. If we think the physical rules, extension is not a good solution. Because mast stiffness and extension stiffness is not the same. Eventually, relationship between mast and sail is complex event. We can find the exact answer in the wind tunnel. Bye,
Melih.
