I saw that in both the Australian and NZ kiteboarding Nationals for foil racing there was one female competitor.
For the youth olympics qualifications you had to show up to qualify and make it around the course - no other competitors from many countries, if any.
I am sure is why Australia and NZ supported kiteboarding for olympic inclusion through world sailing, because it is so inclusive as per olympic directives what with one female nationwide competing.
I don't see how it is right this happened.
Equpiment Costs
Flysurfer sonic Race VMG
3 kites and bar and lions
$4531 + (18m kite only) + 60 cm bar $800 $3931 + (13m kite only) + 50cm bar $800 $3531 + (9m kite only) + 50cm bar $800
High Performance Carbon Foil Board - $1499
High Performance Carbon Foil - $3999 (that is the upper end - less expensive are available but to be competitive...)
Total: $19 891
Given that it would not be safe to use the incorrect equipment in high winds, or that the equipment becomes damaged and unusable .
A spare set $19 891 x2
TOTAL: $39 782 aussie
These kites also need retuning after x hours use as the bridles stretch which is a maintenance cost.
(i am a kiter)
Impressed by Finn's but pumping on windsurf raceboard was hard out. I remember Bruce Kendall staying in Taranaki for wavesailing saying that during MOD they get up early to push down food to have enough energy to get through days racing.
Interesting on how yacht's can pump more than before Olympic, look at 470s crew pumping legs 
The foiling looks awesome and I'm going for next sping/summer to start. But in less that 7 knots there won't be a race as short foil board won't be foiling and imagine slow and low pointing angle without a centreboard and sometimes to get a result! 
But in next Olympic class's next regatta when kiteboarding, the kites will drop out sky when waiting for a direction and strength over 5 knots to send the fleet off the beach. If its only foiling for kiting & windsurfing then its "beach volleyball or skating bowls" for entertainment until its windy enough and potentially a lower number of races to "get a result"!
I remember the 12 knot minimum we supposed to have but racing in 3 - 5 knots to get results!
Select to expand quotelotofwind said..
That's good, you are agreeing with me, people preferer to watch those sports,,and that's why they are broadcasted,,,duh lol
No need for research, I just watch the Olympics heaps on tv, never seen polers ever??? The only crew that could actually see it is if they watch it on the net or utube , which a lot of the oldies that are into it, don't know how to use a computer.
So going to LT's which is pretty much what they used in the 60's/70's (so I have been told, waaay before my time lol) and is just a SUP or Malibu in reality,,,, is not going to get any air time?????
FOILS are the future and might get maybe a 30sec section on the highlights at the end of the news.....which is waaasy more than it ever gets.
1 - You completely missed the point. The sports that people WANT to watch are NOT the ones where people go really quick on modern gear.
2- I have no idea why you are inferring that I want LTs in the Games. I've said about ten times that I don't.
3- Saying things like "foils are the future" is just emptily repeating a mindless slogan. Windsurfers and kiters were slow to catch on to it - boat sailors were saying it for years before boarders starting saying it. It's still rubbish. Foiling is great, but it's not "the" future - merely part of a future.
The funny thing is that I probably foiled before most people here did and yet they pretend that they are ahead of the curve and I'm behind it.
Select to expand quotefjdoug said..RichardG said..
What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.
from a Team GBR document ;
At the Finn class World Championships the race length is approximately 2 hours. At Olympic level the races are generally 60-75 mins.
In winds above 10 knots the Finn class has a free pumping flag rule which means pumping is allowed.
Sailing the Finn is perhaps the purest athletic experience in world class sailing equalled perhaps only by the windsurfer (RSX).
Weight training is an essential part of Finn training.
Downwind the sailor can pump the mainsail one to one (the mainsheet coming straight from the boom and not going through the ratchet pulley system)- thus the loads are very high. Repetitive pumping is very aerobic and produces elevated heart rates which may reach over 90% of maximum heart rate.
Finn Sailor
Body weight : 96-106 kg
Height : 1.80-1.96 m
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 701-978 watts
RSX Sailor
Body weight : 68-74 kg
Height : 1.78-1.88
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 640-680 watts
RSX sailing is a lot more demanding than the LT.
Yep, RSXs are a LOT more physically demanding than LTs. But that Team GBR document misses the vital point that Finn sailors only pump downwind and only in medium to fresh winds, whereas RSX sailors pump much more often.
Those who sail hiking dinghies have extremely high leg strength in many ways, as demonstrated by Michael Blackburn's PhD thesis. Michael was bronze medallist in Lasers in 2000 as well as a PhD. But how you'd compare that to the demands of an RSX is an interesting question, since they are such different forms of effort.
I'm fairly sure that IMCO racing was much harder physically than Laser racing, and I wouldn't reckon that pumping the Finn main made enough difference to make Finn sailors overall superior athletes.
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..fjdoug said..RichardG said..
What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.
from a Team GBR document ;
At the Finn class World Championships the race length is approximately 2 hours. At Olympic level the races are generally 60-75 mins.
In winds above 10 knots the Finn class has a free pumping flag rule which means pumping is allowed.
Sailing the Finn is perhaps the purest athletic experience in world class sailing equalled perhaps only by the windsurfer (RSX).
Weight training is an essential part of Finn training.
Downwind the sailor can pump the mainsail one to one (the mainsheet coming straight from the boom and not going through the ratchet pulley system)- thus the loads are very high. Repetitive pumping is very aerobic and produces elevated heart rates which may reach over 90% of maximum heart rate.
Finn Sailor
Body weight : 96-106 kg
Height : 1.80-1.96 m
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 701-978 watts
RSX Sailor
Body weight : 68-74 kg
Height : 1.78-1.88
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 640-680 watts
RSX sailing is a lot more demanding than the LT.
Where is the data for an LT sailor ? I think you could assume that RSX sailing is more demanding but at Olympic level it maybe that LT sailing could be very demanding as the youth and fitness level will be sky-high.
Unless the LT changes its rules, it will be much less physical than the RSX. And a damn good thing too!
Actually even when unrestricted pumping is allowed (as it used to be in Italy) the One Design rig is less physical than an RSX/Raceboard rig because the tight leach means you get less of a speed boost from pumping upwind and therefore more of your available training time will be devoted to other aspects of the sport.
Select to expand quoteChris249 said..Unless the LT changes its rules, it will be much less physical than the RSX. And a damn good thing too!
Actually even when unrestricted pumping is allowed (as it used to be in Italy) the One Design rig is less physical than an RSX/Raceboard rig because the tight leach means you get less of a speed boost from pumping upwind and therefore more of your available training time will be devoted to other aspects of the sport.RichardG said..fjdoug said..RichardG said..
What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.
from a Team GBR document ;
At the Finn class World Championships the race length is approximately 2 hours. At Olympic level the races are generally 60-75 mins.
In winds above 10 knots the Finn class has a free pumping flag rule which means pumping is allowed.
Sailing the Finn is perhaps the purest athletic experience in world class sailing equalled perhaps only by the windsurfer (RSX).
Weight training is an essential part of Finn training.
Downwind the sailor can pump the mainsail one to one (the mainsheet coming straight from the boom and not going through the ratchet pulley system)- thus the loads are very high. Repetitive pumping is very aerobic and produces elevated heart rates which may reach over 90% of maximum heart rate.
Finn Sailor
Body weight : 96-106 kg
Height : 1.80-1.96 m
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 701-978 watts
RSX Sailor
Body weight : 68-74 kg
Height : 1.78-1.88
40 second sprint peak power rowing : 640-680 watts
RSX sailing is a lot more demanding than the LT.
Where is the data for an LT sailor ? I think you could assume that RSX sailing is more demanding but at Olympic level it maybe that LT sailing could be very demanding as the youth and fitness level will be sky-high.
Unless the LT changes its rules, it will be much less physical than the RSX. And a damn good thing too!
Actually even when unrestricted pumping is allowed (as it used to be in Italy) the One Design rig is less physical than an RSX/Raceboard rig because the tight leach means you get less of a speed boost from pumping upwind and therefore more of your available training time will be devoted to other aspects of the sport.
Agreed. However it could be argued foiling in the right conditions is relatively less physically demanding than LT sailing and despite the foil being faster and more efficient.
Mike Waltze sailing to first place in the Slalom competition of the Windsurfer Worlds 1981 held in Okinawa, Japan. This has always been a favourite inspirational photograph. I could imagine Slalom attracting a lot of interest in the Olympics from spectators and televising as the racing is close, contested, the lead can change and the final results of a heat occur within 8-10 minutes.
Mike Waltze first in the Freestyle shown performing a reverse railride 1981 Windsurfer World Okinawa, Japan. This would be a great competition for the Olympics.
Doesn't anyone else except Chris and I get it that, if the Windsurfer OD got into the Olympics, it would be the end of the Windsurfer revival as we know it
The first thing that would happen is that the class association would completely lose control of the class and the racing. probably, the rules as well.
The second thing is that it would suddenly become hyper competitive (and I mean HYPER!) with full time athletes training and racing. They would beat everyone else by so much that it would be disheartening and normal sailors would drop out.
YA would take over the calendar and ordinary fun loving 'Winsufferings' would not get any influence on where and when events were held, and likely, weight divisions, slalom and freestyle would either disappear from events or become an afterthought.
The atmosphere that makes WOD racing so much fun would be destroyed by steely faced, hardcore racers who couldn't give a cr@p about the history and traditions of the class, or the fun disciplines it traditionally includes, and certainly won't be hanging around having a party after the racing.
Etc, Etc. Think I am wrong? Have a look at all the times this has happened to sailing classes in the past that were 'lucky' enough to get an Olympic berth. Very few have survived it. (Including the windsurfing classes)
Be very careful what you wish for.
For your sakes, I hope that my feeling is correct, that WOD doesn't stand a chance of getting in anyhow.
Select to expand quotesailquik said..
Doesn't anyone else except Chris and I get it that, if the Windsurfer OD got into the Olympics, it would be the end of the Windsurfer revival as we know it
The first thing that would happen is that the class association would completely lose control of the class and the racing. probably, the rules as well.
The second thing is that it would suddenly become hyper competitive (and I mean HYPER!) with full time athletes training and racing. They would beat everyone else by so much that it would be disheartening and normal sailors would drop out.
YA would take over the calendar and ordinary fun loving 'Winsufferings' would not get any influence on where and when events were held, and likely, weight divisions, slalom and freestyle would either disappear from events or become an afterthought.
The atmosphere that makes WOD racing so much fun would be destroyed by steely faced, hardcore racers who couldn't give a cr@p about the history and traditions of the class, or the fun disciplines it traditionally includes, and certainly won't be hanging around having a party after the racing.
Etc, Etc. Think I am wrong? Have a look at all the times this has happened to sailing classes in the past that were 'lucky' enough to get an Olympic berth. Very few have survived it. (Including the windsurfing classes)
Be very careful what you wish for.
For your sakes, I hope that my feeling is correct, that WOD doesn't stand a chance of getting in anyhow.
Yes
The other people hate the class
i hate people who are faster than me .
i might have to stop drinking beer and eating pizza and loose 20 kg
windsurfer Lt make windsurfing great again
The only windsurf Olympians Australia has had, have came from the Wally class !
Australia needs more !
Select to expand quotesailquik said..
Doesn't anyone else except Chris and I get it that, if the Windsurfer OD got into the Olympics, it would be the end of the Windsurfer revival as we know it
The first thing that would happen is that the class association would completely lose control of the class and the racing. probably, the rules as well.
The second thing is that it would suddenly become hyper competitive (and I mean HYPER!) with full time athletes training and racing. They would beat everyone else by so much that it would be disheartening and normal sailors would drop out.
YA would take over the calendar and ordinary fun loving 'Winsufferings' would not get any influence on where and when events were held, and likely, weight divisions, slalom and freestyle would either disappear from events or become an afterthought.
The atmosphere that makes WOD racing so much fun would be destroyed by steely faced, hardcore racers who couldn't give a cr@p about the history and traditions of the class, or the fun disciplines it traditionally includes, and certainly won't be hanging around having a party after the racing.
Etc, Etc. Think I am wrong? Have a look at all the times this has happened to sailing classes in the past that were 'lucky' enough to get an Olympic berth. Very few have survived it. (Including the windsurfing classes)
Be very careful what you wish for.
For your sakes, I hope that my feeling is correct, that WOD doesn't stand a chance of getting in anyhow.
Not to mention the price on the gear will go up.
Can't see the pathway for kids making sense with a wally at the end of it, Techno 5.8, 6.8, 7.8 finally Techno+ 8.5 then comes the Wally 5.7, it seems like a regression. I guess the argument will be to ditch the 10000 strong techno class as well and just start and stay on a wally.
Indoor windsurfing for the Olympics. Much better for average Jo to watch, guaranteed wind, good modern kit and you only need one setup so cheap.
Select to expand quoteBen1973 said..
Indoor windsurfing for the Olympics. Much better for average Jo to watch, guaranteed wind, good modern kit and you only need one setup so cheap.
Sounds cheap
All we need is indoor windsurfing stadiums all over the world for training
Stumbled upon these videos on Vimeo covering a variety of the classes racing:
2018 Raceboard Masters Worlds in Portugal (with some Formula and Formula Foil):
Select to expand quotecammd said..sailquik said..
Doesn't anyone else except Chris and I get it that, if the Windsurfer OD got into the Olympics, it would be the end of the Windsurfer revival as we know it
The first thing that would happen is that the class association would completely lose control of the class and the racing. probably, the rules as well.
The second thing is that it would suddenly become hyper competitive (and I mean HYPER!) with full time athletes training and racing. They would beat everyone else by so much that it would be disheartening and normal sailors would drop out.
YA would take over the calendar and ordinary fun loving 'Winsufferings' would not get any influence on where and when events were held, and likely, weight divisions, slalom and freestyle would either disappear from events or become an afterthought.
The atmosphere that makes WOD racing so much fun would be destroyed by steely faced, hardcore racers who couldn't give a cr@p about the history and traditions of the class, or the fun disciplines it traditionally includes, and certainly won't be hanging around having a party after the racing.
Etc, Etc. Think I am wrong? Have a look at all the times this has happened to sailing classes in the past that were 'lucky' enough to get an Olympic berth. Very few have survived it. (Including the windsurfing classes)
Be very careful what you wish for.
For your sakes, I hope that my feeling is correct, that WOD doesn't stand a chance of getting in anyhow.
Not to mention the price on the gear will go up.
Can't see the pathway for kids making sense with a wally at the end of it, Techno 5.8, 6.8, 7.8 finally Techno+ 8.5 then comes the Wally 5.7, it seems like a regression. I guess the argument will be to ditch the 10000 strong techno class as well and just start and stay on a wally.
LOL
you may have some wallys sailing at the windsurf centre of excellence.
LOL
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..cammd said..sailquik said..
Doesn't anyone else except Chris and I get it that, if the Windsurfer OD got into the Olympics, it would be the end of the Windsurfer revival as we know it
The first thing that would happen is that the class association would completely lose control of the class and the racing. probably, the rules as well.
The second thing is that it would suddenly become hyper competitive (and I mean HYPER!) with full time athletes training and racing. They would beat everyone else by so much that it would be disheartening and normal sailors would drop out.
YA would take over the calendar and ordinary fun loving 'Winsufferings' would not get any influence on where and when events were held, and likely, weight divisions, slalom and freestyle would either disappear from events or become an afterthought.
The atmosphere that makes WOD racing so much fun would be destroyed by steely faced, hardcore racers who couldn't give a cr@p about the history and traditions of the class, or the fun disciplines it traditionally includes, and certainly won't be hanging around having a party after the racing.
Etc, Etc. Think I am wrong? Have a look at all the times this has happened to sailing classes in the past that were 'lucky' enough to get an Olympic berth. Very few have survived it. (Including the windsurfing classes)
Be very careful what you wish for.
For your sakes, I hope that my feeling is correct, that WOD doesn't stand a chance of getting in anyhow.
Not to mention the price on the gear will go up.
Can't see the pathway for kids making sense with a wally at the end of it, Techno 5.8, 6.8, 7.8 finally Techno+ 8.5 then comes the Wally 5.7, it seems like a regression. I guess the argument will be to ditch the 10000 strong techno class as well and just start and stay on a wally.
LOL
you may have some wallys sailing at the windsurf centre of excellence.
LOL
I hope so, we keep inviting them
Select to expand quotewindsufering said..
LOL
you may have some wallys sailing at the windsurf centre of excellence.
LOL
There's been up to 6 different board types on the start line this season including one LT, would be great to see more.
RQ maintain a mixed board scoring system based on yardsticks.
Example from this season here:
results.rqys.com.au/OffTheBeach201819/SGrp4.htm
BTW, is there an updated yardstick for the new LT ?
Select to expand quotecammd said..windsufering said..cammd said..sailquik said..
Doesn't anyone else except Chris and I get it that, if the Windsurfer OD got into the Olympics, it would be the end of the Windsurfer revival as we know it
The first thing that would happen is that the class association would completely lose control of the class and the racing. probably, the rules as well.
The second thing is that it would suddenly become hyper competitive (and I mean HYPER!) with full time athletes training and racing. They would beat everyone else by so much that it would be disheartening and normal sailors would drop out.
YA would take over the calendar and ordinary fun loving 'Winsufferings' would not get any influence on where and when events were held, and likely, weight divisions, slalom and freestyle would either disappear from events or become an afterthought.
The atmosphere that makes WOD racing so much fun would be destroyed by steely faced, hardcore racers who couldn't give a cr@p about the history and traditions of the class, or the fun disciplines it traditionally includes, and certainly won't be hanging around having a party after the racing.
Etc, Etc. Think I am wrong? Have a look at all the times this has happened to sailing classes in the past that were 'lucky' enough to get an Olympic berth. Very few have survived it. (Including the windsurfing classes)
Be very careful what you wish for.
For your sakes, I hope that my feeling is correct, that WOD doesn't stand a chance of getting in anyhow.
Not to mention the price on the gear will go up.
Can't see the pathway for kids making sense with a wally at the end of it, Techno 5.8, 6.8, 7.8 finally Techno+ 8.5 then comes the Wally 5.7, it seems like a regression. I guess the argument will be to ditch the 10000 strong techno class as well and just start and stay on a wally.
LOL
you may have some wallys sailing at the windsurf centre of excellence.
LOL
I hope so, we keep inviting them
so why would any of us bother going to rq with our lt's when we know the attitude of some that sail there. 
the last thing i will do is put my son in amongst the culture there.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
the last thing i will do is put my son in amongst the culture there.
This tweet will not age well I predict.
Select to expand quoteazuli said..windsufering said..
LOL
you may have some wallys sailing at the windsurf centre of excellence.
LOL
There's been up to 6 different board types on the start line this season including one LT, would be great to see more.
RQ maintain a mixed board scoring system based on yardsticks.
Example from this season here:
results.rqys.com.au/OffTheBeach201819/SGrp4.htm
BTW, is there an updated yardstick for the new LT ?
Nope, the yardstick guys require an incredible amount of information before they will change them and no one seems to be sending it.
I think 114 would be about right.
Select to expand quoteka43 said..
That regatta at Lake Garda looked great!!!!!!
I can tell you that the Worlds will be unusually light. Garda always is when I'm there.
Select to expand quoteGestalt said..
so why would any of us bother going to rq with our lt's when we know the attitude of some that sail there.
the last thing i will do is put my son in amongst the culture there.
They seemed pretty nice the other month when I was up there for another class and had a chat. There are grouches in every class and most clubs, so we can just ignore the occasional one - there are some grouches who sail LTs but most of us are happy and only get annoyed when we and our boards cop insults from arrogant aggro people.
Whats the better foil sail, the Severne HG2 or the Gun Sails Bow, assuming these are the two options being put forward for Olympic selection as foil sails. The are very different designs to each other but also to other more standard sails like the RSX or Glide.
Select to expand quoteGoofyRyder-2206 said..
I'm only young, and perhaps a bit naive on this matter... but i think i still have some valid points...
As far as I've seen, the new LT has some numbers in younger groms, as they are a great learning platform, but most of it's numbers are in those who stopped windsurfing for a ... while... and come back to the sport on gear they are more used to. there are a few having a go at it for something different too. But as a racing class... and i cannot say i have sailed an LT, but i have used soft sails before... and in light wind... due to their more 'floppy' nature they are certainly not pumpable, and don't have the greatest shape as they require wind to fill them out... meaning you have to lean the sail to leeward to fill it with gravity... this also means you can't hook in for stability or any sort of 'locking in' in light winds...
as far as higher wind.... i have in past found soft sails to be extremely twitchy and back-fill in the luff very easily. not to mention a strapless board with a tiny fin.... which means even in strong winds it will be railing on it's center board upwind... in 15 knts there is enough chop to loose grip and end up in the drink. Also... a 6.0 m sail??? Most of my windsurfing and almost all of my racing has been done on a techno293, more recently a techno293 plus, I'm only 72kg and hold down an 8.5 in 25 to < 30 knts of wind and it's still pumpable enough in light wind, twin cam... holds it shape in no wind at all. techno gear as far as big picture is reasonably cheap.. and fast... i have sent a techno to 23knts.. a few friends of mine have made them go even faster... The LT just doesn't have a wind range that is exciting to me... RS:X is still a strong class, I have seen them going pretty darn fast and still sailable in the lighter stuff... And the foils have come along way... and im sure will continue to be developed.. I vote RS:X should stay, until the foils are without doubt ready and more exiting.
Well said Scotty. I agree with everything. I've gotten my techno up tp 26 knots with the 8.5 sail in winds where the 9.5 sailors were craping their pants with their gear. I still think that the RSX has had it's time and it's time to upgrade. Just watching multiple foiling races on the PWA and in New Zealand, I can see that they are going as fast as planing conditions in 10 less knots. This will 100% make watching the racing more enjoyable for spectators that don't know the ins and outs of racing. I feel like once the sea trials are held the Wally will be out of the question completely. Sure it's less expensive and there might be a lot of people racing the Wally but the foiling classes are relatively new. The biggest argument for the foil for me is seeing Julien at club racing in 8 knots doing 4 laps when everyone else is doing 2. Just like that with relatively the same amount of effort he's doing 2 extra laps. It blows my mind every time. Even when it's planing conditions for techno upwind Julien is still doing extra laps and sometimes finishing before us still. When I raced the Wally at the Nationals in January I finished 11th in the Medium weight class and felt like everything was old and outdated, not to mention really slow.
Those are my thoughts
Cheers, Max
Select to expand quoteRichardG said..AUS 814 said..RichardG said..AUS 814 said..Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.RichardG said..AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.
What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.
Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.
You have to work every windshift and wave upwind and rail the board for speed. There is unlimited pumping in the LT downwind. You can't sit down, your physical core and muscles need to work constantly. The marathon race is around 25 km.
Pretty certain when they are sitting down they are hiking, working main and tiller with core working ??
Sure but the LT sailor does it all standing up. He or she has to work, railing to windward, tacking and trimming standing up. Pumping is not permitted on the upwind legs just only 30 seconds after the start. Then downwind work and unlimited pumping standing up. A massive workout of the body's core and many muscles worked.
Using all of those muscles are the same for any class. The RSX is even more physical because it's a heavy sail. When it gets windy the board starts to get hairy and to control that you have to be very aerobically fit to hold the board down for a very long time. Anaerobically: some of the races during the world cub season on the RSX most of the races were 100% pumping, upwind downwind for 25-30 mins. ALL STANDING UP!!!!!!
Select to expand quotemaxi388 said..Using all of those muscles are the same for any class. The RSX is even more physical because it's a heavy sail. When it gets windy the board starts to get hairy and to control that you have to be very aerobically fit to hold the board down for a very long time. Anaerobically: some of the races during the world cub season on the RSX most of the races were 100% pumping, upwind downwind for 25-30 mins. ALL STANDING UP!!!!!!RichardG said..AUS 814 said..RichardG said..AUS 814 said..Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.RichardG said..AUS 814 said..
Does the LT really represent the Olympic Ethos . Is it going to have unlimited pumping RSX style???.Its not highly physical like the 49ers. And we tossed out the best representation of Olympic sailing the Finn Dinghy, full on physical, close racing and technical to set up well.
What makes you think sailing the Finn requires more fitness and physical ability than an LT. I believe you could argue that an LT requires more fitness and is more physical.
Simply watching a Finn being sailed , big sail area, heavy boat. Unlimited pumping downwind above 12 knots.
You have to work every windshift and wave upwind and rail the board for speed. There is unlimited pumping in the LT downwind. You can't sit down, your physical core and muscles need to work constantly. The marathon race is around 25 km.
Pretty certain when they are sitting down they are hiking, working main and tiller with core working ??
Sure but the LT sailor does it all standing up. He or she has to work, railing to windward, tacking and trimming standing up. Pumping is not permitted on the upwind legs just only 30 seconds after the start. Then downwind work and unlimited pumping standing up. A massive workout of the body's core and many muscles worked.
Using all of those muscles are the same for any class. The RSX is even more physical because it's a heavy sail. When it gets windy the board starts to get hairy and to control that you have to be very aerobically fit to hold the board down for a very long time. Anaerobically: some of the races during the world cub season on the RSX most of the races were 100% pumping, upwind downwind for 25-30 mins. ALL STANDING UP!!!!!!
RSX certainly requires more physical exertion to sail. However is that the reason why it is not a popular class ? Foiling is less effort to sail as I understand from those proficient in it. Does that mean foiling will be more popular ? The cost is increasing significantly with foiling specifically as I understand it will not be a one design, or is there a one design foiling class capable of sailing in 3 knots ?
Select to expand quotemaxi388 said..GoofyRyder-2206 said..
I'm only young, and perhaps a bit naive on this matter... but i think i still have some valid points...
As far as I've seen, the new LT has some numbers in younger groms, as they are a great learning platform, but most of it's numbers are in those who stopped windsurfing for a ... while... and come back to the sport on gear they are more used to. there are a few having a go at it for something different too. But as a racing class... and i cannot say i have sailed an LT, but i have used soft sails before... and in light wind... due to their more 'floppy' nature they are certainly not pumpable, and don't have the greatest shape as they require wind to fill them out... meaning you have to lean the sail to leeward to fill it with gravity... this also means you can't hook in for stability or any sort of 'locking in' in light winds...
as far as higher wind.... i have in past found soft sails to be extremely twitchy and back-fill in the luff very easily. not to mention a strapless board with a tiny fin.... which means even in strong winds it will be railing on it's center board upwind... in 15 knts there is enough chop to loose grip and end up in the drink. Also... a 6.0 m sail??? Most of my windsurfing and almost all of my racing has been done on a techno293, more recently a techno293 plus, I'm only 72kg and hold down an 8.5 in 25 to < 30 knts of wind and it's still pumpable enough in light wind, twin cam... holds it shape in no wind at all. techno gear as far as big picture is reasonably cheap.. and fast... i have sent a techno to 23knts.. a few friends of mine have made them go even faster... The LT just doesn't have a wind range that is exciting to me... RS:X is still a strong class, I have seen them going pretty darn fast and still sailable in the lighter stuff... And the foils have come along way... and im sure will continue to be developed.. I vote RS:X should stay, until the foils are without doubt ready and more exiting.
Well said Scotty. I agree with everything. I've gotten my techno up tp 26 knots with the 8.5 sail in winds where the 9.5 sailors were craping their pants with their gear. I still think that the RSX has had it's time and it's time to upgrade. Just watching multiple foiling races on the PWA and in New Zealand, I can see that they are going as fast as planing conditions in 10 less knots. This will 100% make watching the racing more enjoyable for spectators that don't know the ins and outs of racing. I feel like once the sea trials are held the Wally will be out of the question completely. Sure it's less expensive and there might be a lot of people racing the Wally but the foiling classes are relatively new. The biggest argument for the foil for me is seeing Julien at club racing in 8 knots doing 4 laps when everyone else is doing 2. Just like that with relatively the same amount of effort he's doing 2 extra laps. It blows my mind every time. Even when it's planing conditions for techno upwind Julien is still doing extra laps and sometimes finishing before us still. When I raced the Wally at the Nationals in January I finished 11th in the Medium weight class and felt like everything was old and outdated, not to mention really slow.
Those are my thoughts
Cheers, Max
It's cool if you prefer the T293; we all have different tastes. I'm not even sure the LT would be in any sea trials, if there are any, since it's so different from the others. In light winds, though, it could be interesting; it would have been interesting to see a T293 in the light winds we had at the LT nationals since in other events they've been well behind in light stuff.
Foiling looks good but over the past 40 years there have been shedloads of attempts to make sailing more spectator-friendly. Just about every time people say "this new class will be the one that gets spectators hooked" and just about every time they are wrong. I'm not meaning to diss your point of view but the fact is that stuff that looks good to some people may not interest the average spectator at all.
The most watched Olympic event in the vital US market is normally this one;
