Hey all,
Looking for gear advise in cold weather foiling. As I get older, I get colder. I've had a shorty wetsuit forever, but typically only use it briefly in spring when the water temp is cold, but air is warm. Never really did any winter sailing.
Well.. I've been making good progress foiling lately, and want to keep going.
Conditions: coldest water temp would be in the low 50's. Typical air temp in the 40s. Northern fronts can come in 20 knot range, so wind chill etc. On exposed skin sounds frightening 
.
The idea of being dry(dry suit) sounds appealing, but never used one. Also
Looking for ideas on head hands and feet.
Thanks in advance..
Matt
Select to expand quoteWsurfAustin said..
Hey all,
Looking for gear advise in cold weather foiling. As I get older, I get colder. I've had a shorty wetsuit forever, but typically only use it briefly in spring when the water temp is cold, but air is warm. Never really did any winter sailing.
Well.. I've been making good progress foiling lately, and want to keep going.
Conditions: coldest water temp would be in the low 50's. Typical air temp in the 40s. Northern fronts can come in 20 knot range, so wind chill etc. On exposed skin sounds frightening .
The idea of being dry(dry suit) sounds appealing, but never used one. Also
Looking for ideas on head hands and feet.
Thanks in advance..
Matt
Dry suits are the only piece of garment I got rid of twice in my sailing life. Too much maintenance required. If you are not lucky you end up have to change gaskets every year. Every two is normal.
For "winter" (California) sailing I now use an O'Neil Psycho 5.5 with front entry and hood ... it is very toasty!
I also use a 5.5 oneil, but I think the key things is having a windbreaker to minimize windchill on the arms and palm less gloves/mittens to protect the backs of the hands from the wind also
Select to expand quotethedoor said..
I also use a 5.5 oneil, but I think the key things is having a windbreaker to minimize windchill on the arms and palm less gloves/mittens to protect the backs of the hands from the wind also
Second the wind chill, evaporative cooling on a wetsuit with a fabric outer layer can really chill you. I always get wetsuits that have rubber on the outside covering at least both sides of the chest, regardless of wetsuit thickness. You can also spray the fabric on the outside with Atsko Water Proof-Guard (Walmart in US), very durable and prevents the outer fabric from wetting out and that helps to reduces evaporative cooling, but a rubber outer layer/skin is the best. And that goes for your head, hands, and less so your feet just because thick booties are usually good enough and I have never seen booties covered with rubber.
Another vote for the O'neil psycho 5.5/4. Also, pairing with an impact vest helps on those 39 degree days for water and air.
The Psycho's are not cheap but the quality is amazing and it will last for while if you take care of it. Well worth it in the long run.
DC
Winter time in Dallas I used 2 layers of rash vests (keeps the core warm and no arm restrictions) with a 5/4 O'Neill epic wetsuit, O'Neill 3mm ninja booties and 1.5mm hood and would foil in 42 deg water and 42-44 air temp all day long.
Now in Florida I'm hoping a 3/2 will be enough on cooler days
Select to expand quoteCoreAS said..
Winter time in Dallas I used 2 layers of rash vests (keeps the core warm and no arm restrictions) with a 5/4 O'Neill epic wetsuit, O'Neill 3mm ninja booties and 1.5mm hood and would foil in 42 deg water and 42-44 air temp all day long.
Now in Florida I'm hoping a 3/2 will be enough on cooler days
I am in Florida, West coast, use my O'Neil reactor 3-2 maybe 1-3 times max a year. Rest of cold weather time 2 mil jacket and 1.5 mil pants.
stores.wetsuit.com/womens-l-s-exo-skin-stretch-top-w-zipper-cobalt-k65/
promotion still make suits with "windskin" for wind sports as well as wind breakers that could go over a wetsuit
Check out Pro Motion exo skin pullover about $100 put this over your 5-4 wetsuit to cut the wind chill from evaporation a lot of the crew where I live use them the none hooded pullover ,size up from what you normally wear. If you have skinny booms regular gloves work with no forearm pumping other wise use the open palm mittens .
Forgot about my Hyperflex hooded jacket, it has a full rubber outer layer so 100% windproof, soft pile inner layer. I use it over my wetsuit when taking a break in windy cold conditions, or after changing out of the wetsuit.
I just looked at the ProMotion Exo front zip jacket, looks good, but only comes with a 6 month warranty, makes me wonder if the bonding (glue) between the outer rubber layer and inner micro-fleece layer is stable over time. I had a North Face jacket that was really nice, the seams were almost invisible because as I realized years later the whole jacket was glued together! After several years the seams started coming apart, fortunately TNF backs their lifetime warranty and I got credit for a new jacket that was stitched together!
I bought a Body Glove Elite full wetsuit from Canadian Tire. Relatively inexpensive . With store points today $125 CAN @ $100 US.
I'm 5'10 180lbs. I tried a L ( 185- 205 lbs 5' 11 to 6'2) then an XL (195-215 6' to 6'6") . Both were a struggle to get on. Easier to breathe with the XL and less strain on the back zipper. Slight excess in knees and lower back. Snug everywhere else. So that's what I bought. Still have to try in water . Might wear it to bed ... : )
you shouldn't let a bit of cold weather put you off foiling
That is saltwater but I still had the sail icing up when on the water.
For days like that I have a ion fuse drysuit but I only wear it a few times a year a 5 or 6mm suit is fine. Most guys round here wear neo hoods but I don't like them and prefer a neo beanie. Hands are the hard part with palmless mits offering protection without the dreaded forearm cramps. The good thing about them is you can fold them back over your wrists as you sail along.
I really like my baggy-style Ocean Rodeo Soul. I have 6 years and 100s of sessions on it and haven't had to replace the gaskets yet. I do put 303 on them almost every session, though. I find baggy suits so much more comfortable than neoprene suits. And, I can vary the warmth by just adding layers when it gets colder.
But, they have a serious problem: The Durable Water Repellent coating eventually fails. And, I haven't found any amount of Nikwax or Revivex properly restores it (and I've done ALL the recommended steps - even talked directly with Nikwax support).
And, the DWR is really important. First, when water wets out the fabric's surface, you get evaporative cooling. Also, any surface that is wetted out makes the fancy breathable material no longer breathable. So, I end up being soaked from my own sweat by the end of the session. If I want to sail for more than an hour or two, I need to bring a 2nd set of base-layer to change into. And, the DWR situation has only gotten worse in the last few years:www.patagonia.com/stories/our-dwr-problem/story-17791.html
Select to expand quoteSailrepair said..
you shouldn't let a bit of cold weather put you off foiling
That is saltwater but I still had the sail icing up when on the water.
For days like that I have a ion fuse drysuit but I only wear it a few times a year a 5 or 6mm suit is fine. Most guys round here wear neo hoods but I don't like them and prefer a neo beanie. Hands are the hard part with palmless mits offering protection without the dreaded forearm cramps. The good thing about them is you can fold them back over your wrists as you sail along.
Serious commitment Bro. where is that artic circle?
I do like how you can fold back the open palm mitts if your fingers are warm enough. Also keeps the wind off the back of your hands which is the most important thing
That is Scotland.
With drysuits if the air temperature is not very low (sub 4c for me) then you do get very damp inside. Mine being neoprene is warm but I were some polypropolene thermals under it just to be more comfortable. I am a bit wary of the loose type drysuits. Should you split a seam or the foil slash it open you are suddenly facing a dangerous situation as you both loose all thermal insulation and also you become a lot heavier with a suit full of water. At least with a neo drysuit if the worst happens it is just going to be rather uncomfortable but not life threatening.
As mentioned I seldom have to resort to wearing a drysuit and a good 6/4 steamer is more than adequate. The main things is to sail hard for a hour or two and not hang around on the beach. A rigging jacket is useful for keeping warm when setting up. Having a bit of "personal insulation" is handy but here is skinny Kevin setting up
I used a Gul Darthmouth dry suit for a while. Its half price of windsurf drysuits.
You have to tune the layers under the suit, very easy to get too warm. But if you get it right it is very comfortable.
Far more flexible than a 5 or 6 mm wetsuit, feels like a 2 mm, more easy to put on than a 5mm. But the best thing for me is that you don't need to change in the cold.
You put thermal underwear on at home. Then you just switch pants near the water. Coming back wet is even easier. Water drops fall of the suit, it will not be wet. And same you just change without freezing your balls of.
I also have an oneill 5/4 but always grabbed the drysuit. I basically switched from shorty to drysuit.
Now I moved to Portugal, water temp does not go below 15 degrees so I don't use it anymore.
Latest drysuits are much different than the older ones. Same as neoprene suits now vs 20 years ago. You cannot compare.
You have to be careful tot to puncture because then you have a problem. But the material is very though, I have a race foil and hit it with the suit - no problem. Also use a vest for safety (normal in winter). For wave surfing I would not use it, but for slalom or foiling it is very nice.
Select to expand quotelwalker said..
I really like my baggy-style Ocean Rodeo Soul. I have 6 years and 100s of sessions on it and haven't had to replace the gaskets yet. I do put 303 on them almost every session, though. I find baggy suits so much more comfortable than neoprene suits. And, I can vary the warmth by just adding layers when it gets colder.
But, they have a serious problem: The Durable Water Repellent coating eventually fails. And, I haven't found any amount of Nikwax or Revivex properly restores it (and I've done ALL the recommended steps - even talked directly with Nikwax support).
And, the DWR is really important. First, when water wets out the fabric's surface, you get evaporative cooling. Also, any surface that is wetted out makes the fancy breathable material no longer breathable. So, I end up being soaked from my own sweat by the end of the session. If I want to sail for more than an hour or two, I need to bring a 2nd set of base-layer to change into. And, the DWR situation has only gotten worse in the last few years:www.patagonia.com/stories/our-dwr-problem/story-17791.html
I wonder why people have such different experiences with drysuit seals. Is it the water they sail in? Your experience, 6 years trouble free, seems really out of the ordinary, and my own Ocean Rodeo is at the other end of the spectrum. On mine, despite following all the instructions, all the seals disintegrated within a year ... Besides the problem with the seals, the inside of my Ocean Rodeo was also very wet at the end of a session. A goretex Kokatac is probably a much better option, but of course much more expensive.
I am the mechanic for the local lifeboat and that includes looking after all the crew drysuits. With the seals it seems to be a case that they can be fine and then the guy gets a bit of petrol on them or it reacts with their aftershave etc and can turn to black jelly in no time. The seals can also split from stretching. But you can replace them or a lot of dive shops will do it at reasonable cost.
I have a starboard sup drysuit which is great, it is light weight stretchy and breathable but I don't think it is robust enough for windsurfing.
Select to expand quotelwalker said..
I really like my baggy-style Ocean Rodeo Soul. I have 6 years and 100s of sessions on it and haven't had to replace the gaskets yet. I do put 303 on them almost every session, though. I find baggy suits so much more comfortable than neoprene suits. And, I can vary the warmth by just adding layers when it gets colder.
But, they have a serious problem: The Durable Water Repellent coating eventually fails. And, I haven't found any amount of Nikwax or Revivex properly restores it (and I've done ALL the recommended steps - even talked directly with Nikwax support).
And, the DWR is really important. First, when water wets out the fabric's surface, you get evaporative cooling. Also, any surface that is wetted out makes the fancy breathable material no longer breathable. So, I end up being soaked from my own sweat by the end of the session. If I want to sail for more than an hour or two, I need to bring a 2nd set of base-layer to change into. And, the DWR situation has only gotten worse in the last few years:www.patagonia.com/stories/our-dwr-problem/story-17791.html
Try Atsko Silicone Water-proofing, best I have found. Also, an suit made out of eVent would breath great, I use eVent shell and pants when backpacking in the mountains, actually is too breathable and get cooled easily, getting a silnylon wind shirt to solve that problem.
I'm a big fan of the EXO Skin zipper jacket as a extra layer.
Also really like the Need Essentials wetsuits. They are on the small size so I order larger size than other brands. The 4/3 with the EXO Skin covers a lot of temps.
For me gloves is hard to get right. My hands are my week link, they determine how long I can stay out. Ride Engine 2mm gloves are the best in moderate cold. For very cold I use Kokatat Inferno Mitt. Both are hard to find but worth looking for.
Select to expand quoteFishdude said..
I'm a big fan of the EXO Skin zipper jacket as a extra layer.
Also really like the Need Essentials wetsuits. They are on the small size so I order larger size than other brands. The 4/3 with the EXO Skin covers a lot of temps.
For me gloves is hard to get right. My hands are my week link, they determine how long I can stay out. Ride Engine 2mm gloves are the best in moderate cold. For very cold I use Kokatat Inferno Mitt. Both are hard to find but worth looking for.
+2
Hands are the limiting factor indeed : palmless gloves can help untill they get wet when the watertemp is less than the air. Then they will actually cool your hands instead of keeping them warm.
I read somewhere about a certain procedure where you would do a short "warm-up" session untill your hands get too cold, since this is the first reaction of the body : stopping heat loss to the extremities. Then come to shore for a pause till the blood starts to circulate again in the hands, and continue ; a bit like when we where kids playing with snowballs i guess.
Another tip was placing a coolbox with (not too) hot water on the shore to warm your hands.
Select to expand quoteBellerophon said..Fishdude said..
I'm a big fan of the EXO Skin zipper jacket as a extra layer.
Also really like the Need Essentials wetsuits. They are on the small size so I order larger size than other brands. The 4/3 with the EXO Skin covers a lot of temps.
For me gloves is hard to get right. My hands are my week link, they determine how long I can stay out. Ride Engine 2mm gloves are the best in moderate cold. For very cold I use Kokatat Inferno Mitt. Both are hard to find but worth looking for.
+2
Hands are the limiting factor indeed : palmless gloves can help untill they get wet when the watertemp is less than the air. Then they will actually cool your hands instead of keeping them warm.
I read somewhere about a certain procedure where you would do a short "warm-up" session untill your hands get too cold, since this is the first reaction of the body : stopping heat loss to the extremities. Then come to shore for a pause till the blood starts to circulate again in the hands, and continue ; a bit like when we where kids playing with snowballs i guess.
Another tip was placing a coolbox with (not too) hot water on the shore to warm your hands.
Thanks,
Ya, my hands/feet would be the show stopper. I'm using RDG booms, so maybe a thicker glove would work ? . I've never used any cold weather gear in water. Water temp would only be as low as mid 50's. But wind chill would be the bigger issue I would think.
Select to expand quoteWsurfAustin said..Bellerophon said..Fishdude said..
I'm a big fan of the EXO Skin zipper jacket as a extra layer.
Also really like the Need Essentials wetsuits. They are on the small size so I order larger size than other brands. The 4/3 with the EXO Skin covers a lot of temps.
For me gloves is hard to get right. My hands are my week link, they determine how long I can stay out. Ride Engine 2mm gloves are the best in moderate cold. For very cold I use Kokatat Inferno Mitt. Both are hard to find but worth looking for.
+2
Hands are the limiting factor indeed : palmless gloves can help untill they get wet when the watertemp is less than the air. Then they will actually cool your hands instead of keeping them warm.
I read somewhere about a certain procedure where you would do a short "warm-up" session untill your hands get too cold, since this is the first reaction of the body : stopping heat loss to the extremities. Then come to shore for a pause till the blood starts to circulate again in the hands, and continue ; a bit like when we where kids playing with snowballs i guess.
Another tip was placing a coolbox with (not too) hot water on the shore to warm your hands.
Thanks,
Ya, my hands/feet would be the show stopper. I'm using RDG booms, so maybe a thicker glove would work ? . I've never used any cold weather gear in water. Water temp would only be as low as mid 50's. But wind chill would be the bigger issue I would think.
In your temp range, palmless mittens work fine - simple, not expensive and you can flip them on/off as you need/want. Even if your fingers and thumbs are out, they still cover the back of your hand providing a decent amount of protection in the mid/high 40s. Once water temps are in the mid 40s and air below 40 do they start to get a little sketch but still doable. For full on arctic type conditions (freezing/sub-freezing), though, you gotta go full gloves, imho. Or, better yet, drive or fly someplace warmer.
Select to expand quoteBellerophon said..Fishdude said..
I'm a big fan of the EXO Skin zipper jacket as a extra layer.
Also really like the Need Essentials wetsuits. They are on the small size so I order larger size than other brands. The 4/3 with the EXO Skin covers a lot of temps.
For me gloves is hard to get right. My hands are my week link, they determine how long I can stay out. Ride Engine 2mm gloves are the best in moderate cold. For very cold I use Kokatat Inferno Mitt. Both are hard to find but worth looking for.
+2
Hands are the limiting factor indeed : palmless gloves can help untill they get wet when the watertemp is less than the air. Then they will actually cool your hands instead of keeping them warm.
I read somewhere about a certain procedure where you would do a short "warm-up" session untill your hands get too cold, since this is the first reaction of the body : stopping heat loss to the extremities. Then come to shore for a pause till the blood starts to circulate again in the hands, and continue ; a bit like when we where kids playing with snowballs i guess.
Another tip was placing a coolbox with (not too) hot water on the shore to warm your hands.
I sailed down to 0c air temp with occasional water temps near freezing and this is the procedure. Go for a quick bit then let the hands warm completely.
I use paddling mitts with the palms cut out and (this is critical) thick mechanics nitrile gloves under. The nitrile goes under the wetsuit cuff and becomes basically a dry glove.
Hot water is put in milk jugs which are placed in a cooler to stay warm through the day.
Lake Superior is my home waters. Never really warm. Last summer a tourist kiter required rescuing and treatment due to hypothermia. Guy though he was cool just wearing board shorts and rash/sun top. Ended up more than "cool". When poo happens you usually die up here. 30C on the beach and struggling to put on a 3/2. People are wondering why??? 1km offshore the air and water temps are a bit cool. October water temps are not really too cold. Warmer than June. Air temps are on the cool side. 5/3 more or less works. 6/4 for the cloudy days with air temps below 15C. Never have been cold in the 6/4 down to around 5C. Using ProMotion brand for the past couple decades.
Problem are the feet and hands. Finally found a set of 5mm booties with real thin soles. Solite brand. I hope they work as advertised. Really don't enjoy the pain in the feet and hands once they start warming. Hand. Still an issue. Last season broke down and purchased a pair NP 3mm gloves. Lasted 1/2 session before I pulled them off. Thinking open palm mitts? Supply issue. None of the online and "local" shop have inventory of the proper size.
Select to expand quoteOldGuy3 said..
Lake Superior is my home waters. Never really warm. Last summer a tourist kiter required rescuing and treatment due to hypothermia. Guy though he was cool just wearing board shorts and rash/sun top. Ended up more than "cool". When poo happens you usually die up here. 30C on the beach and struggling to put on a 3/2. People are wondering why??? 1km offshore the air and water temps are a bit cool. October water temps are not really too cold. Warmer than June. Air temps are on the cool side. 5/3 more or less works. 6/4 for the cloudy days with air temps below 15C. Never have been cold in the 6/4 down to around 5C. Using ProMotion brand for the past couple decades.
Problem are the feet and hands. Finally found a set of 5mm booties with real thin soles. Solite brand. I hope they work as advertised. Really don't enjoy the pain in the feet and hands once they start warming. Hand. Still an issue. Last season broke down and purchased a pair NP 3mm gloves. Lasted 1/2 session before I pulled them off. Thinking open palm mitts? Supply issue. None of the online and "local" shop have inventory of the proper size.
I bought diving gloves at Decathlon 3mm I think for 15 euro. First try my lower arms were cramping up in about 15 minutes. So I cut out the palms and now they are very nice to use. www.decathlon.co.uk/p/scd-scuba-diving-3-mm-neoprene-gloves/_/R-p-1803?mc=8301727&c=BLACK
If you do wear gloves then try and make sure then have very prebent fingers. ion claw gloves are ok - about the same warmth as open palm mits. Neil Pryde do a 3 finger glove that works well but are quite expensive.
With things like gloves you have to have realistic expectations. A guy here says "I don't like wearing gloves" but nobody does and he misses the colder days. Also there is a big difference in what gloves you can get away with depending on you sailing. Low effort sailing you can get away with thicker gloves, palms etc but if it is high activity sailing you will only survive with palmless or very thin/prebent palms.
If at all possible I try to keep my hands dry.
Dry suit repair ?
I borrowed my Brother's old Ronny drysuit. purple /pink upper . bottom is snug , closed cell neoprene with thin farmer john inside.
Small 1/4" /pencil sized hole on top . Repair with a bicycle tire patch ? One wrist gasket is missing . The other side is sorta functional but is about to go ; Dried out area with small cuts. I have 1.5 mm wetsuit gloves with velcro closures. www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B08TX33CDG/ref=ox_sc_act_image_2?smid=A1XHWNV8DEUKAL&psc=1 Is this a good one ? Aquaseal as an adhesive . What would work as lube on zipper - Lanolin ? Should the suit be treated with anything ? Thx
