@savethewhales:
Is it just me?
Or do others as well wonder how a video of a kitefoiler who falls and catches his own kiteboard in his own lines can be used to encourage windfoilers to have an eye on their gear?
I just don't seem to get it: can't anyone help me out? Possibly I'm just barking up the wrong tree, but watching the vid again and again doesn't make things better for me.
Select to expand quoteAl Planet said..SaveTheWhales said..RAL INN said..
but there is enough other stuff on a windsurfer to catch lines anyway to the overall probability of such an incident happening doesn't change enough to cause concern.
RAL - you know thats the most Irresponsible thing you can say, please show and tell us what comes "UP OUT OF THE WATER" after you run kite lines over on a foil - when everything else is thrown forward of the lines from momentum and the lines go slack ???
The kiter may completely release both safetys if the kite starts to loop - and that means the foil board will be in front of the bar - and send the kite to Full Power, when it connects..
Like I said earlier - a windsurfer or kiter or surfer or swimmer or sun bather or kids building sandcastles -will NOT be able to stop a full powered kite in a deathloop.
Just like Guns - People now have an axe under them - and new rules will apply to their awareness and use of them.
We know how many kooks there are in both kiting and windsurfing..
Education - not Probable ignorance, water safety always comes first.
You are on a windsurfing Forum preaching safety for other water users when your own kite surfing body gives guidelines that are all about the safety of the kiter but not for other water users. The very thing they recommend (staying close to shore) is the very thing that makes Kite Foiling so dangerous for other water users!!!
Yes Im on a Windsurfing forum because I've windsurfed since 83' and seen the rise and fall of kook windsurfers and kiters alike.
I also kite with pro windsurfers and they know how quickly everything goes to crap.
Like the times ive towed windsurfers with gear breaks back to shore. It does happens.
Common sense is not natural to most people these days.
Whether your single opinion debates right or wrong forum - you can gurantee those interested in foiling but not having associated with kiters before, will be taking some new information on board.
Thats a good thing.
Learner windsurf foilers in the same area as learner kiters. Nothing to be worried about - if "your alright Jack"
Getting back to foiling.would Naish make a reinforced carbon mast above the wing foils in the near future.l think this would give foiling a more lively feel.this would create some twist in stronger winds.l know the thrust hydro foil is designed for early planing in light winds.
Select to expand quoteZeeGerman said..
@savethewhales:
Is it just me?
Or do others as well wonder how a video of a kitefoiler who falls and catches his own kiteboard in his own lines can be used to encourage windfoilers to have an eye on their gear?
I just don't seem to get it: can't anyone help me out? Possibly I'm just barking up the wrong tree, but watching the vid again and again doesn't make things better for me.
It shows what happens when things go wrong when a "foil is involved" It doesnt matter who owns it..
He is ****ting himself because the kite might power up and pull him into the foil, cut him, stab him and possibly trap him... ZeeGerman - its having an awareness that could save you, from what could easily happen when sailing with kiters, if you tangle a foil in kite lines..
The following video at 4min53 - 5:09 shows a tutorial example of what happens if any kite, Deathloops from a tangle at higher winds, note how fast he gets thrown across the water until "he" stops it... like I said previously - it wont stop until it hits something solid.
There is a rich vein of irony here. Things were less confusing when it all the kiteboy contributions came from "lotofwind"
Select to expand quoteAl Planet said..
There is a rich vein of irony here. Things were less confusing when it all the kiteboy contributions came from "lotofwind"
Yes well the days of playing with your toys and no one else about have long since died with the dinosaurs and my old wooden boom.. now you have to learn how to play together and look out for each other - or make cups of tea 
Select to expand quotespiralbevel said..
I think you get better results at much lower cost with much smaller fin foil:
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..
Great dismount
Maybe be even more spectacular dismount if he had some real wind. The fin obviously provides more lift, and at what wind strength dies it throw you off.
Select to expand quoteSPEEDTRACK said..sboardcrazy said..
So how hard is it to learn?
Is JP Australia's hydrofoil better than FRPgear.com's fin-foil?
Two totally different beasties.
The fin will give you a bit of lift to get planing a little earlier.
A Hydrofoil gets the whole board of the water and in theory keeps it there.
Got the JP foil and loving it
Select to expand quoteSPEEDTRACK said..sboardcrazy said..
So how hard is it to learn?
Is JP Australia's hydrofoil better than FRPgear.com's fin-foil?
Yes I hear the JP kit is much better than the gear you are advertising.
Select to expand quoteelmo said..SPEEDTRACK said..sboardcrazy said..
So how hard is it to learn?
A Hydrofoil gets the whole board of the water and in theory keeps it there.
Id say that .......A Hydrofoil gets the whole board of the water and Then the pilot keeps it there.....I was very successful in making it come down back into the water in a spectacular fashion. 
Select to expand quotet2wheeler said..SPEEDTRACK said..sboardcrazy said..
So how hard is it to learn?
Is JP Australia's hydrofoil better than FRPgear.com's fin-foil?
Yes I hear the JP kit is much better than the gear you are advertising.
Yeah, post a proper review or post put in the buy and sell section!!
Select to expand quoteWaiting4wind said..t2wheeler said..SPEEDTRACK said..sboardcrazy said..
So how hard is it to learn?
Is JP Australia's hydrofoil better than FRPgear.com's fin-foil?
Yes I hear the JP kit is much better than the gear you are advertising.
Yeah, post a proper review or post put in the buy and sell section!!
The video was a bit ordinary, has a proper one been made to advertise to sell the fin?
I like the look of TheVirus foil fin but doubt that I'll ever buy one because of price. And Steve Allen has used it too to boot!
I have a Bic Windsup and I am planning to make a " back to the basics'' DIY hydrofoil ( or..quasi-hydrofoil!) wing, possibly by using a 3D printer . Nothing fancy. The wing would be attached to the end of a 34 cm weed-fin ( or regular fin) . I can't use longer fins because the water is very shallow here and the fin box is a US box. I weigh 85 kg.
From various photos and videos, hydrofoil-equipped boards amazingly rise as much as approximately 70 cm off the water, which seems to be just about the entire length of the fin or shaft.
If I am right in assuming that a wing mounted on a shorter 34 cm long weed-fin should give a lift proportionate to the depth/length of the fin, albeit less, the board should rise enough to skim the water and reach the planing threshold or even better, possibly 10-15 cm off the water. This would be quite enough for me. Winds are very light here ( mostly 12 knts), which in addition to the type of board ( Windsup) makes planing not very easy. May be my Flintstone ( !) DIY hydrofoil can help planing.
I wonder if anybody can comment on this .More particularly:
1.Can anybody give me an idea of the approximate dimensions: wingspan and width of the wing? The board in the fin box area is about 55 cm wide. The fin box, again, is US. box. Can the wingspan be just as wide, ( 55 cm ) for a better lift or does it have to?
2 What should be the approximate width of the winglets at the base, (i.e. where they join the fin)?
3.Does it make a difference if the plane of the wing is horizontal, i.e. perpendicular to the vertical axis of the fin or if it is slanted backwards, as I have seen in some photos?
4.Similarly, does it make a difference whether the tips of the winglets on each side point up or down ?
5. In some of the photos, the direction of the fin is inverted, i.e. it points forward and not backward. Why? Does it matter?
6. Best materials, easiest to work with ?( aside from carbon, too expensive and difficult to work with a 3D printer.
Thanks
Francone
Select to expand quoteFrancone said..
I have a Bic Windsup and I am planning to make a " back to the basics'' DIY hydrofoil ( or..quasi-hydrofoil!) wing, possibly by using a 3D
I made this a while ago out of layers or 3mm marine ply with glass between each layer for a slalom board.
while it planed up a bit earlier, gaining any speed was restricted as the extra drag forced the nose down cancelling out any advantage.
Select to expand quoteducati said..Francone said..
I have a Bic Windsup and I am planning to make a " back to the basics'' DIY hydrofoil ( or..quasi-hydrofoil!) wing, possibly by using a 3D
I made this a while ago out of layers or 3mm marine ply with glass between each layer for a slalom board.
while it planed up a bit earlier, gaining any speed was restricted as the extra drag forced the nose down cancelling out any advantage.
Good idea about the ply, Ducati !! What is the wingspan of your foil?
I wonder if a longer( or the longest possible) wingspan and perhaps a larger width ( i.e. a larger surface) could not increase the lift. On my board I can give the wing as much as a 55 cm span, which is the width of the board around the fin area. Probably more, if there are no counter indications in having the wingtips protruding a couple of inches on the sides of the board, but I am not an engineer or a hydrodynamics expert and I don't know.
Also, a critical factor for the lift is what I call, for lack of a better word, the the taper-down effect in the wing. In other word the distance between leading edge and trailing edge should be longer ( curved ) on the upper face than on the lower face ( flat, or even slightly concave ) to create the pressure differential necessary for lift, just as in an airplane's wing. This is best visible by looking at the cross section of the wing . In fact, also the two side-thrusters I put on my Bic have one side slightly convex and the other one slightly concave, probably with the same rationale. .
I think this is a the trickiest part in building the wing. Probably it has to be done manually by careful sanding . I suppose you glued the wing to the fin and probably made some reinforcement ( fiberglas?) around the insertion point. If you have done it already, would you mind giving me some tips about how you did it, in a few words?
Also, I wonder whether it would make a difference by attaching the wing at the end of the fin instead of at midway.
Thanks for your ( or anybody's help ) on this issue.
Francone
Francone, I'm confused what you are looking to do. Do you want to make a fin with a wing on it or an actual windfoil like Naish, Slingshot, NP, etc?
Select to expand quotePaducah said..
Francone, I'm confused what you are looking to do. Do you want to make a fin with a wing on it or an actual windfoil like Naish, Slingshot, NP, etc?
Sorry for the confusion: Just the wing to be attached to the fin. The fin is already there.
Thanks
Francone
Select to expand quoteFrancone said..Paducah said..
Francone, I'm confused what you are looking to do. Do you want to make a fin with a wing on it or an actual windfoil like Naish, Slingshot, NP, etc?
Sorry for the confusion: Just the wing to be attached to the fin. The fin is already there.
Thanks
Francone
Things to consider:
1) You have a US box which can only take limited loading. I'd think a swept fin like a weedie would mean the wing would constantly be trying to pivot the fin out of a not-so-strong box. If you go with this, a bit of reinforcement might be wise. Virus seems to say that a 38 cm fin is the limit for even a Powerbox version of their fin if there was one.
2) Foils work by creating lift under the rider - between the front and back straps. Take a look at the post by barbarian above and you can see the blue wing under the rider. Fin foils generate lift under or even behind the back foot which, while lifting the back of the board, effectively forces the nose into the water. You'll have to compensate by either moving back, lifting hard on the front straps, etc. to keep board trim. By putting the wing on a weedie, you are exacerbating this tendency. The idea that you can magically float above the water like you would on a foil has been pushed by spiralbevel here and elsewhere without any real evidence.
The Virus fin seems to consider this and extends the wing forward of the fin.
I'm not against anyone having a go at something and proving me absolutely wrong. :) Just some things that you might think about. Something like a Slingshot foil with a short mast, while not ideal, might be a lot more fun and less frustrating in the long run even if more expensive to start.
www.facebook.com/theviruscarbon/posts/2005028389783992
Select to expand quoteFrancone said..ducati said..Francone said..
I have a Bic Windsup and I am planning to make a " back to the basics'' DIY hydrofoil ( or..quasi-hydrofoil!) wing, possibly by using a 3D
I made this a while ago out of layers or 3mm marine ply with glass between each layer for a slalom board.
while it planed up a bit earlier, gaining any speed was restricted as the extra drag forced the nose down cancelling out any advantage.
Good idea about the ply, Ducati !! What is the wingspan of your foil?
I wonder if a longer( or the longest possible) wingspan and perhaps a larger width ( i.e. a larger surface) could not increase the lift. On my board I can give the wing as much as a 55 cm span, which is the width of the board around the fin area. Probably more, if there are no counter indications in having the wingtips protruding a couple of inches on the sides of the board, but I am not an engineer or a hydrodynamics expert and I don't know.
Also, a critical factor for the lift is what I call, for lack of a better word, the the taper-down effect in the wing. In other word the distance between leading edge and trailing edge should be longer ( curved ) on the upper face than on the lower face ( flat, or even slightly concave ) to create the pressure differential necessary for lift, just as in an airplane's wing. This is best visible by looking at the cross section of the wing . In fact, also the two side-thrusters I put on my Bic have one side slightly convex and the other one slightly concave, probably with the same rationale. .
I think this is a the trickiest part in building the wing. Probably it has to be done manually by careful sanding . I suppose you glued the wing to the fin and probably made some reinforcement ( fiberglas?) around the insertion point. If you have done it already, would you mind giving me some tips about how you did it, in a few words?
Also, I wonder whether it would make a difference by attaching the wing at the end of the fin instead of at midway.
Thanks for your ( or anybody's help ) on this issue.
Francone
The guys at WindTech are successfully using a fin with small wings at the tip. Have a look at their thread here on SB
Select to expand quoteFrancone said..Paducah said..
Francone, I'm confused what you are looking to do. Do you want to make a fin with a wing on it or an actual windfoil like Naish, Slingshot, NP, etc?
Sorry for the confusion: Just the wing to be attached to the fin. The fin is already there.
Thanks
Francone
The other thing you could do is get a board designed to plane in 12knots, such as the Windtech mentioned above
Select to expand quoteBSN101 said..Francone said..ducati said..Francone said..
I have a Bic Windsup and I am planning to make a " back to the basics'' DIY hydrofoil ( or..quasi-hydrofoil!) wing, possibly by using a 3D
I made this a while ago out of layers or 3mm marine ply with glass between each layer for a slalom board.
while it planed up a bit earlier, gaining any speed was restricted as the extra drag forced the nose down cancelling out any advantage.
Good idea about the ply, Ducati !! What is the wingspan of your foil?
I wonder if a longer( or the longest possible) wingspan and perhaps a larger width ( i.e. a larger surface) could not increase the lift. On my board I can give the wing as much as a 55 cm span, which is the width of the board around the fin area. Probably more, if there are no counter indications in having the wingtips protruding a couple of inches on the sides of the board, but I am not an engineer or a hydrodynamics expert and I don't know.
Also, a critical factor for the lift is what I call, for lack of a better word, the the taper-down effect in the wing. In other word the distance between leading edge and trailing edge should be longer ( curved ) on the upper face than on the lower face ( flat, or even slightly concave ) to create the pressure differential necessary for lift, just as in an airplane's wing. This is best visible by looking at the cross section of the wing . In fact, also the two side-thrusters I put on my Bic have one side slightly convex and the other one slightly concave, probably with the same rationale. .
I think this is a the trickiest part in building the wing. Probably it has to be done manually by careful sanding . I suppose you glued the wing to the fin and probably made some reinforcement ( fiberglas?) around the insertion point. If you have done it already, would you mind giving me some tips about how you did it, in a few words?
Also, I wonder whether it would make a difference by attaching the wing at the end of the fin instead of at midway.
Thanks for your ( or anybody's help ) on this issue.
Francone
The guys at WindTech are successfully using a fin with small wings at the tip. Have a look at their thread here on SB
Is this the same one at 6.5 seconds in to their video?
Select to expand quotePaducah said..Francone said..Paducah said..
Francone, I'm confused what you are looking to do. Do you want to make a fin with a wing on it or an actual windfoil like Naish, Slingshot, NP, etc?
Sorry for the confusion: Just the wing to be attached to the fin. The fin is already there.
Thanks
Francone
Things to consider:
1) You have a US box which can only take limited loading. I'd think a swept fin like a weedie would mean the wing would constantly be trying to pivot the fin out of a not-so-strong box. If you go with this, a bit of reinforcement might be wise. Virus seems to say that a 38 cm fin is the limit for even a Powerbox version of their fin if there was one.
2) Foils work by creating lift under the rider - between the front and back straps. Take a look at the post by barbarian above and you can see the blue wing under the rider. Fin foils generate lift under or even behind the back foot which, while lifting the back of the board, effectively forces the nose into the water. You'll have to compensate by either moving back, lifting hard on the front straps, etc. to keep board trim. By putting the wing on a weedie, you are exacerbating this tendency. The idea that you can magically float above the water like you would on a foil has been pushed by spiralbevel here and elsewhere without any real evidence.
The Virus fin seems to consider this and extends the wing forward of the fin.
I'm not against anyone having a go at something and proving me absolutely wrong. :) Just some things that you might think about. Something like a Slingshot foil with a short mast, while not ideal, might be a lot more fun and less frustrating in the long run even if more expensive to start.
www.facebook.com/theviruscarbon/posts/2005028389783992
The length of my weedie is 38 cm and the vertical depth from the fin box 28 cm. AS it is ,and at the speed I usually go (light winds) I don't think that the stress on the US box is an issue.
My aim, as I said earlier, is to have the board just rise off the water enough to plane or skim a few inches above it.
As I see it, the only way to do it ( theoretically!) is as large a wing surface as possible.
My project, with 70 cm ( 28") wing span and a 25 cm max center width tapering down at the tips . should give me a decent 875 cm2 wing surface, with enough lift ( I hope!) to pull me out of the water .( The minimum recommended wing surface is 600 cm2, from what I read.) .
I was thinking at first of building the wing with a 3D printer, but it looks easier to do it manually out of a 1 1/4 " " plywood board.
At
Select to expand quotePaducah said..BSN101 said..Francone said..ducati said..Francone said..
I have a Bic Windsup and I am planning to make a " back to the basics'' DIY hydrofoil ( or..quasi-hydrofoil!) wing, possibly by using a 3D
I made this a while ago out of layers or 3mm marine ply with glass between each layer for a slalom board.
while it planed up a bit earlier, gaining any speed was restricted as the extra drag forced the nose down cancelling out any advantage.
Good idea about the ply, Ducati !! What is the wingspan of your foil?
I wonder if a longer( or the longest possible) wingspan and perhaps a larger width ( i.e. a larger surface) could not increase the lift. On my board I can give the wing as much as a 55 cm span, which is the width of the board around the fin area. Probably more, if there are no counter indications in having the wingtips protruding a couple of inches on the sides of the board, but I am not an engineer or a hydrodynamics expert and I don't know.
Also, a critical factor for the lift is what I call, for lack of a better word, the the taper-down effect in the wing. In other word the distance between leading edge and trailing edge should be longer ( curved ) on the upper face than on the lower face ( flat, or even slightly concave ) to create the pressure differential necessary for lift, just as in an airplane's wing. This is best visible by looking at the cross section of the wing . In fact, also the two side-thrusters I put on my Bic have one side slightly convex and the other one slightly concave, probably with the same rationale. .
I think this is a the trickiest part in building the wing. Probably it has to be done manually by careful sanding . I suppose you glued the wing to the fin and probably made some reinforcement ( fiberglas?) around the insertion point. If you have done it already, would you mind giving me some tips about how you did it, in a few words?
Also, I wonder whether it would make a difference by attaching the wing at the end of the fin instead of at midway.
Thanks for your ( or anybody's help ) on this issue.
Francone
The guys at WindTech are successfully using a fin with small wings at the tip. Have a look at their thread here on SB
Is this the same one at 6.5 seconds in to their video?
That's it. WT are testing it and I gather it may be made available at some later date
Select to expand quoteBSN101 said..Paducah said..BSN101 said..Francone said..ducati said..Francone said..
I have a Bic Windsup and I am planning to make a " back to the basics'' DIY hydrofoil ( or..quasi-hydrofoil!) wing, possibly by using a 3D
I made this a while ago out of layers or 3mm marine ply with glass between each layer for a slalom board.
while it planed up a bit earlier, gaining any speed was restricted as the extra drag forced the nose down cancelling out any advantage.
Good idea about the ply, Ducati !! What is the wingspan of your foil?
I wonder if a longer( or the longest possible) wingspan and perhaps a larger width ( i.e. a larger surface) could not increase the lift. On my board I can give the wing as much as a 55 cm span, which is the width of the board around the fin area. Probably more, if there are no counter indications in having the wingtips protruding a couple of inches on the sides of the board, but I am not an engineer or a hydrodynamics expert and I don't know.
Also, a critical factor for the lift is what I call, for lack of a better word, the the taper-down effect in the wing. In other word the distance between leading edge and trailing edge should be longer ( curved ) on the upper face than on the lower face ( flat, or even slightly concave ) to create the pressure differential necessary for lift, just as in an airplane's wing. This is best visible by looking at the cross section of the wing . In fact, also the two side-thrusters I put on my Bic have one side slightly convex and the other one slightly concave, probably with the same rationale. .
I think this is a the trickiest part in building the wing. Probably it has to be done manually by careful sanding . I suppose you glued the wing to the fin and probably made some reinforcement ( fiberglas?) around the insertion point. If you have done it already, would you mind giving me some tips about how you did it, in a few words?
Also, I wonder whether it would make a difference by attaching the wing at the end of the fin instead of at midway.
Thanks for your ( or anybody's help ) on this issue.
Francone
The guys at WindTech are successfully using a fin with small wings at the tip. Have a look at their thread here on SB
Is this the same one at 6.5 seconds in to their video?
That's it. WT are testing it and I gather it may be made available at some later date
Then that's quite different than what Francone is trying to do as this looks more like a winglet but is serving a different surface than a proper lifting foil.
Francone, yes, getting the center of lift right is going to be important if you want to "skim" just above the surface. Putting a big wing on the back of your car doesn't automatically turn it into an airplane :). Good luck.
Select to expand quoteFrancone said..Paducah said..Francone said..Paducah said..
Francone, I'm confused what you are looking to do. Do you want to make a fin with a wing on it or an actual windfoil like Naish, Slingshot, NP, etc?
Sorry for the confusion: Just the wing to be attached to the fin. The fin is already there.
Thanks
Francone
Things to consider:
1) You have a US box which can only take limited loading. I'd think a swept fin like a weedie would mean the wing would constantly be trying to pivot the fin out of a not-so-strong box. If you go with this, a bit of reinforcement might be wise. Virus seems to say that a 38 cm fin is the limit for even a Powerbox version of their fin if there was one.
2) Foils work by creating lift under the rider - between the front and back straps. Take a look at the post by barbarian above and you can see the blue wing under the rider. Fin foils generate lift under or even behind the back foot which, while lifting the back of the board, effectively forces the nose into the water. You'll have to compensate by either moving back, lifting hard on the front straps, etc. to keep board trim. By putting the wing on a weedie, you are exacerbating this tendency. The idea that you can magically float above the water like you would on a foil has been pushed by spiralbevel here and elsewhere without any real evidence.
The Virus fin seems to consider this and extends the wing forward of the fin.
I'm not against anyone having a go at something and proving me absolutely wrong. :) Just some things that you might think about. Something like a Slingshot foil with a short mast, while not ideal, might be a lot more fun and less frustrating in the long run even if more expensive to start.
www.facebook.com/theviruscarbon/posts/2005028389783992
The length of my weedie is 38 cm and the vertical depth from the fin box 28 cm. AS it is ,and at the speed I usually go (light winds) I don't think that the stress on the US box is an issue.
My aim, as I said earlier, is to have the board just rise off the water enough to plane or skim a few inches above it.
As I see it, the only way to do it ( theoretically!) is as large a wing surface as possible.
My project, with 70 cm ( 28") wing span and a 25 cm max center width tapering down at the tips . should give me a decent 875 cm2 wing surface, with enough lift ( I hope!) to pull me out of the water .( The minimum recommended wing surface is 600 cm2, from what I read.) .
I was thinking at first of building the wing with a 3D printer, but it looks easier to do it manually out of a 1 1/4 " " plywood board.
At there is a YouTube video showing how to shape the plywood board into a wing by progressively whittling away, tapering and sanding the wood. A long process, but with power tools it is not too bad.
I am aware that without a rear stabilizer fin I might experience drag or stability problems, but I can always add it later on, if necessary.
May be it won't work, but I'll try, keeping in mind your advice to reinforce the wing at the insertion point on the fin in order to prevent the fin from swaying and pivoting on the fin box under the hydrodynamic stress of the water .
By the way, you say that the lift would be created between the front and the back straps . Do you think then that it is better to invert the direction of the fin so that it points forward? This should also advance the wing more forward, especially with a weed fin which is already coinsiderably back swept. .
I'll post the results on the Forum next summer, because we still have ice here!
Thanks to you all for the comments and suggestions.
Francone
Francone, I hate to PooPoo your idea, but I don't think you should do this. If you do succeed in building a wing powerful enough to lift the Windsup clear of the water. You seriously risk ripping the finbox out. Imagine clamping your fin in a vise while attached to the board: Now get up on the board & walk around on it while only supported by the fin... you think your fin box will hold up to that? I don't...
