Can 17 you are correct laminating those sharp edges is tough. If anyone has a system that works i would love to here it. Thanks in advance .
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
I use Fusion 360 to create my shapes!
One thing to note about stepped decks, which I think is important: volume doesnt actually help you float unless its being pushed underwater (so displacing water). This means that for the stepped nose to actually increase your float your board would be tilted nose down in the water.
Not sure what the effect of that would actually be in practice, maybe NicoDC can tell us as he actually had experience with such a setup.
I see what your saying. If the sail rig isn't making the nose sink already without a step then a step isn't doing anything if added. I guess it comes down to trial and error building boards and finding the optimal volume distribution putting the foam in the proper place without creating excessive weight. I'm not a professional so little details are not going to wreak me.
Select to expand quoteboardhead said..
Can 17 you are correct laminating those sharp edges is tough. If anyone has a system that works i would love to here it. Thanks in advance .
For cutouts I find wetting out on the board easiest. Use a tack spray and Take your time to get the cloth into the corners. A few relief cuts as required. If complicated as in the photo below I glass the bottom in 2 stages. Cutouts first then the rest of the bottom second.The second layer on the bottom will again cover the first step of the cutouts so will cover the small relief cut gaps.
Then when bagging ( peel ply / bleeder ) really focus on getting the internal corner pressed in tight
Select to expand quoteDarrylG said..boardhead said..
Can 17 you are correct laminating those sharp edges is tough. If anyone has a system that works i would love to here it. Thanks in advance .
For cutouts I find wetting out on the board easiest. Use a tack spray and Take your time to get the cloth into the corners. A few relief cuts as required. If complicated as in the photo below I glass the bottom in 2 stages. Cutouts first then the rest of the bottom second.The second layer on the bottom will again cover the first step of the cutouts so will cover the small relief cut gaps.
Then when bagging ( peel ply / bleeder ) really focus on getting the internal corner pressed in tight
Lot easier than the motley methods I cobbled up (sans vacuum, too). Looks great.
Any issues with the tack spray causing issues or interfering with the adhesion of the epoxy?
Select to expand quoteutcminusfour said..
CAN17,
I taught myself Rhino on the job after training in the fundamentals of CAD at school. It is not rocket science but I would not call it easy to model freeform shapes like boards. I can tell you that I have been exposed to most of the software at this point and Rhino IMO is the most user friendly and is the best value. I still am to this day learning new moves in Rhino. Foils and foilboards have been some of the most challenging things I have modeled and that is after twenty years in the boat design industry. What I did for you took me 15 minutes. But that is because the shape is so basic and I kept it as simple as I could. To get a fully flowing and fair shape like your wizard takes considerably more time and knowledge to create from scratch. That said once you have it built it is easy to edit. If I were starting from the beginning and only was interested in board design I would consider one of the tools specifically for board design because you do not have to learn how to model the surfaces you just have to learn the user interface. You have to spend money and time learning whatever you choose. I keep working with Rhino because unlike the board specific tools I can model anything in Rhino.
I can also tell you that cut outs are a massive time sink, both to model and build. Yes, a bag is a good idea even without the cut outs.
In my own board building projects I have kept the shapes really simple even though I have the skill to draw more complicated shapes I don't have the skills yet to shape them by hand. I view my foiling designs as a very broad brush approach for the purpose of learning the basics of design in this new field. The marketing info we are fed is often conflicting and I am sorting out the BS this way. With each project I am sharpening things up.
If you keep you shapes simple like you have so far you can use basic area times thickness calcs to get a reasonably close volume number just like NicoDC did for you. You can draw on graph paper to do this either to scale or full size by glueing it to your cardboard shapes.
It is hard for me not to want to model this for you (I love this stuff!) but it would not be fair to my customers. I only have so many hours I can spend behind the screen before my eyes say stop. I need to spend that time finishing the work I already have on my plate.
Keep charging and creating mate!
Second that. Try shape 3d, it is free and there's a warehouse with templates to give you a starting point and some guidance. Be ware that shortening a 220cm board template to a 166cm board template would render the rocker pretty much useless. Also you can check the website "le guide du petit shapeur", he's a French shaper that shares the s3d files from his boards.
I don't use a cnc for my boards. First I get a (basic) digital file to help me with the rocker template and outline templates. It also helps to give you and idea on the rail shape, but I tend to just look at the board and go from there.
the way I calculate my board volume is pretty easy, all you need is the foam density, a scale and google to fin the formula. Density = weight / volume so volume = weight / density or (in case of my last board) 0,09 m3 = 1.8kg / 20kg/m3 so that's 90 liter.
if all to complicate know that a 20kg/m3 blank that weighs 2kg, is 100l.
i never measure in pounds etc, so sorry for that.
Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
I use Fusion 360 to create my shapes!
One thing to note about stepped decks, which I think is important: volume doesnt actually help you float unless its being pushed underwater (so displacing water). This means that for the stepped nose to actually increase your float your board would be tilted nose down in the water.
Not sure what the effect of that would actually be in practice, maybe NicoDC can tell us as he actually had experience with such a setup.Select to expand quoteWhiteofHeart said..
I use Fusion 360 to create my shapes!
One thing to note about stepped decks, which I think is important: volume doesnt actually help you float unless its being pushed underwater (so displacing water). This means that for the stepped nose to actually increase your float your board would be tilted nose down in the water.
Not sure what the effect of that would actually be in practice, maybe NicoDC can tell us as he actually had experience with such a setup.
The step is not so big but here's my experience with that.
you can run the mast more forward in the rail without the nose sinking to much when pumping. It helps the board to remain steady and it helps to prevent a complete change of the entry point of the water on the rocker if you put the mast far forward. If your mast foot is centered closer to the centre of volume, that there won't be much to gain with a stepped deck.
Select to expand quoteDarrylG said..boardhead said..
Can 17 you are correct laminating those sharp edges is tough. If anyone has a system that works i would love to here it. Thanks in advance .
For cutouts I find wetting out on the board easiest. Use a tack spray and Take your time to get the cloth into the corners. A few relief cuts as required. If complicated as in the photo below I glass the bottom in 2 stages. Cutouts first then the rest of the bottom second.The second layer on the bottom will again cover the first step of the cutouts so will cover the small relief cut gaps.
Then when bagging ( peel ply / bleeder ) really focus on getting the internal corner pressed in tight
Nice one! I purchased glue spray a while back but was afraid it might have some stuff in it that melts the eps core.
Select to expand quoteNicoDC said..WhiteofHeart said..
I use Fusion 360 to create my shapes!
One thing to note about stepped decks, which I think is important: volume doesnt actually help you float unless its being pushed underwater (so displacing water). This means that for the stepped nose to actually increase your float your board would be tilted nose down in the water.
Not sure what the effect of that would actually be in practice, maybe NicoDC can tell us as he actually had experience with such a setup.WhiteofHeart said..
I use Fusion 360 to create my shapes!
One thing to note about stepped decks, which I think is important: volume doesnt actually help you float unless its being pushed underwater (so displacing water). This means that for the stepped nose to actually increase your float your board would be tilted nose down in the water.
Not sure what the effect of that would actually be in practice, maybe NicoDC can tell us as he actually had experience with such a setup.
The step is not so big but here's my experience with that.
you can run the mast more forward in the rail without the nose sinking to much when pumping. It helps the board to remain steady and it helps to prevent a complete change of the entry point of the water on the rocker if you put the mast far forward. If your mast foot is centered closer to the centre of volume, that there won't be much to gain with a stepped deck.
I agree it's easier to get foiling when the mast is futher foward. I would still be able to get it pretty far forward in my cardboard cutout(kinda hard to see my pencil marks). Also some wings just like the base further foward depending on how they lift, with my moses 720 I need the base about 1/2-1" further foward and my Balz 799 likes it a bit further back.
This is a picture of a Horue Femto 115L 166x72 shape3d file(they sell blanks FYI) which is what I based my dimensions on but took foot strap and foil box placement from my wizard 105L. Notice no cutouts. Last picture is a 115L femto that someone made using those blanks. Very compact shape and a lot of volume under the feet and sail area. I dont think nose steps on this board would do much even with a big sail.
