Select to expand quoteutcminusfour said..
Thanks thedoor, I should say that I have worked in the yacht and ship design industry for decades.
Yeah it will be interesting, This is almost the opposite design concept of my current board which I modeled after race boards and it is sticky in light air because of all the wetted surface. I am painting in broad brush strokes so I can try out all the concepts in less time. Trying to sort my way through all the conflicting info like for touch downs you want "flat bottom with hard rails" while another camp says you need "bevels'. So I am trying both on different boards.
I hear ya about pumping, the details of the hull can effect it. So can the placement of the foil. On my current set up I have been sliding the foil forwards in the track and the sail back in it's track. When I push that all the way I can feel a bit of crankyness when pumping but I am getting better at it and yeah, I am pumping further off the wind. This next board will allow me to shrink the front wing to sail distance even further and will put my weight in the middle of the board all the time so it should transtion between modes well. We will see, it is not possible to fail with project, it is about the journey and the learning.
I guess if you don't make significant design changes you are less likely to learn the value of a modification.
Let us know how it goes.
Select to expand quoteLecum said..martyj4 said..
Lecum, I think having a front foot strap to jam your foot in makes a big difference for pumping up and getting the foil to fly. I find things work much more efficiently if the front foot is anchored. Back strap not important for me - even once flying.
While the board design is important for getting going, the other thing that makes a BIG difference is getting the right foil to fly early. Rather than going out and spending potentially big $ on a new board, have you considered what a different foil may bring to what you're aiming to do with foiling?
Hello martyj4
Regarding the foil size I agree with you but I finally ordered the neilpryde glidewind size S for the following reasons. However I must admit I have some doubts. Maybe I will have to change my old board to gain a few knots.
- Very good price
- It's the size recommended by the neilpryde agent for me (69 kg, sail 5,6 m2, wind range 12-15 knots)
- There is a french guy on internet who has tested all the glidewind sizes and says the size M doesn't lift more than size S and has less maneubrability and speed. He weights only 60 Kg. He recommends size S for weight less than 80 kg
- Last year I couldn't get the foil because I ordered size M and neilpryde never has it in stock
That's why I asked you for your weight, to compare. My main target is flying in 12 knots with the smallest sail, and ride some small swells easily
KR
I am 70 kg. I had the 1st gen Naish 1220 cm2 foil. It got me going in 13-14 knots with a 5.3m wavesail. I have the original Naish foil board - the Hover 122. I am also looking to get flying in the minimum amount of wind. That objective may not apply to you, so what I'm saying might not be particularly relevant.
I recently upgraded to the Naish 1570cm2 foil. It dropped the minimum wind speed to fly to around 11-12 knots. No change to the board. Got a Naish lift 5.7 sail which has dropped minimum wind speed back another knot.
I've also used the SS HG infinity 84 which feels like it develops more lift and feels more stable than the Naish 1570 foil. But the board I used it with had terrible footstrap placement to match the balance point of the foil.
To that end, the Naish setup I have works really well for me, because it's well balanced and I'm used to it. Even though the SS foil I tried to use developed more lift, the foil and board settings made it too difficult to get it all balanced, so I struggled on it. Someone with more skill and with a different board could probably get a lot more out of it than me. One of the things that's really helped is having a foil mast track that is adjustable so you can get the foil balance point set up right for your foot placement. The SS foil was on a board with no foil track.
I guess the thing I look at for you Lecum is spending $ on a board MAY not make as much of a difference as a different foil or sail? BUT it also probably depends on what gear you can get your hands on, and (as for many sailor) what gear feels like it works for you. And I can see what you're saying about the NP gear. If that's what you've got and you're comfortable with, then uprooting and starting again can be expensive yeah.
Select to expand quotemartyj4 said..Lecum said..martyj4 said..
Lecum, I think having a front foot strap to jam your foot in makes a big difference for pumping up and getting the foil to fly. I find things work much more efficiently if the front foot is anchored. Back strap not important for me - even once flying.
While the board design is important for getting going, the other thing that makes a BIG difference is getting the right foil to fly early. Rather than going out and spending potentially big $ on a new board, have you considered what a different foil may bring to what you're aiming to do with foiling?
Hello martyj4
Regarding the foil size I agree with you but I finally ordered the neilpryde glidewind size S for the following reasons. However I must admit I have some doubts. Maybe I will have to change my old board to gain a few knots.
- Very good price
- It's the size recommended by the neilpryde agent for me (69 kg, sail 5,6 m2, wind range 12-15 knots)
- There is a french guy on internet who has tested all the glidewind sizes and says the size M doesn't lift more than size S and has less maneubrability and speed. He weights only 60 Kg. He recommends size S for weight less than 80 kg
- Last year I couldn't get the foil because I ordered size M and neilpryde never has it in stock
That's why I asked you for your weight, to compare. My main target is flying in 12 knots with the smallest sail, and ride some small swells easily
KR
I am 70 kg. I had the 1st gen Naish 1220 cm2 foil. It got me going in 13-14 knots with a 5.3m wavesail. I have the original Naish foil board - the Hover 122. I am also looking to get flying in the minimum amount of wind. That objective may not apply to you, so what I'm saying might not be particularly relevant.
I recently upgraded to the Naish 1570cm2 foil. It dropped the minimum wind speed to fly to around 11-12 knots. No change to the board. Got a Naish lift 5.7 sail which has dropped minimum wind speed back another knot.
I've also used the SS HG infinity 84 which feels like it develops more lift and feels more stable than the Naish 1570 foil. But the board I used it with had terrible footstrap placement to match the balance point of the foil.
To that end, the Naish setup I have works really well for me, because it's well balanced and I'm used to it. Even though the SS foil I tried to use developed more lift, the foil and board settings made it too difficult to get it all balanced, so I struggled on it. Someone with more skill and with a different board could probably get a lot more out of it than me. One of the things that's really helped is having a foil mast track that is adjustable so you can get the foil balance point set up right for your foot placement. The SS foil was on a board with no foil track.
I guess the thing I look at for you Lecum is spending $ on a board MAY not make as much of a difference as a different foil or sail? BUT it also probably depends on what gear you can get your hands on, and (as for many sailor) what gear feels like it works for you. And I can see what you're saying about the NP gear. If that's what you've got and you're comfortable with, then uprooting and starting again can be expensive yeah.
Yes, you are right. You gained 2 knots only making bigger the front wing? Maybe I should change the front wing by another bigger. However I've just seen a french test and the earliest flyers are not this kind of low aspect foils we like such as the glidewind or the naish. These low profile wings are more stable flying but not the earliest flyers. However I guess the high profile earilest flyers are not so manoeuvrable.
Apart from this, is there any relationship between the width of the board and the width of the front wing regarding easiness of turning and upwind performance, for example?
Thanks.
Smaller foils should breach less in stronger gusts.
I ordered a 600 kitewing to go with my current 1220 windfoil on Naish Hover.
Should arrive in a week. Hope to have more control when wind tops 20 knots, which is 75% of the days here in Berkeley Ca. Usually op'd on 4.5 meter sails.
I thought more about compatibility than performance. Given that I didn't know much about foiling, I figured it was best to go with at foil and board that were matched. Otherwise I wouldn't know if my setup was completely wrong.
