Wait....you come on to diss my posts while you contribute NOTHING AT ALL to answering the post?
Really?
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Wait....you come on to diss my posts while you contribute NOTHING AT ALL to answering the post?
Really?
Correct. At least I get thumbs up without even pretending to contribute. 
okay enough off-topic!
Select to expand quoteHenners said..
Hi everyone,
so I got a 6m Ezzy Hydra 2018 rigged on an Ezzy mast and I am using an rrd wave boom.
I set it up to min settings as per David Ezzy's instructional video.
The entire sail from the very front of the boom is touching the boom.
Am I meant to be using a special boom for this thing?
If I set it to max downhaul and outhaul it is full and just does not make contact with the boom.
I know that the design is meant to get as much power so I can get up on the foil, but is this doing any damage to the sail?
That's a great question. Both of my Hydras touch the boom when rigged medium or looser, weirdly my smaller hydra pro doesn't though. Since Ezzy rigs these and sets the guides in the factory I trust their specs more than I'd trust myself pushing the sail to check the draft, I do remember having to do that in the 80's though before sails had rigging guides built in to the luff and tack.
On a side note, my opinion on things that claim to do everything usually do nothing really well but.....
I finally got to windsurf my 6.7 hydra a couple days ago, imagine a big wave sail. I did lose a little upwind performance and glide through the lulls but over all when powered up it worked pretty good. So in this case, it's a excellent foil sail and pretty good windsurf sail.
On problem with booms is they are different spans, so a boom for a narrow span wave sail with little draft might not be much good for bagged out Hydra as the sail touches the boom along al the arm. David Ezzy replied that doesnt matter too much, and that some booms are made for ease of manufacturer rather than what is best.
Yet same idiot keeps saying you need to fine tune the sail by pressing down on the sail. You can still do that if you like, but it doesnt add anything to tuning Ezzy sails.
Ezzys have the tuning guides for tuning the sail, and once you have a setting you prefer for given wind strength you can go straight to that.
Hi Winfred and PhilUK, didn't know how to quote you both sorry.
I was surprised by nerdycross's pics on the hydra pro -- it's the same outline shape but around the luff, mine looks completely different. I think it might not have been set to the min setting though.
David did send a few attachments with his email and one was about narrow booms, spot-on ease of manufacture, I will attach it as a picture below. Then below that is the email that he sent which I reformated (it's was very hard to read before, David is in Bold). I have a slalom boom which is really heavy but might have enough room, which I might try if all fails but ..... it's just heavy. I have only tried the 6 and 7 one time each, and in the min setting, I found them very grunty, a little bit off-putting as I couldn't get my timing right to get in the straps and on the foil. In the max settings, it was easy, something that I was used to and felt familiar with. The seasons are changing here so it's weird and wonderful weather which means that I'm waiting a while until I get to try them out again. Once I get them tuned and figure out what I need to do, I'll get back to you all. One last thing in the video of David rigging the hydra did you notice that his boom looks ancient? I wonder if it is a boom pre-streamlined change?
Hi Henry,
Nice to hear from you.
I bought a second hand 2019 Ezzy Hydra 6m and 7m sail. I tried rigging them up on a 460 mast and extending the head cap but it did not seem to work, so I made the plunge and purchased 430 and 400 masts.I was trying to use the 7m in light wind so I set the mast to min and then used the smallest piece of string on the outhaul to set the boom. When I was out it was hard to get the bottom batten to come across to the other side when going onto a new tack. When I pumping the sail, the sail would be touching the leeward side of the boom right up to the boom head and I think it could have been even fuller. At rest, the batten sits about 4cm in front of the mast. If I set the sail to max down and outhaul then it behaves fine. The downhaul factory pen mark matches the middle plastic part so that has not been changed.
- Could be an over-tight foot batten, or maybe just set extremely deep.
- At the lightest wind MIN setting the foot batten can be a bit over rotated around the mast, especially if you have very little outhaul.- You can apply a smidge more DH and OH to pull the batten back a bit off the mast.- As for touching the boom, don't worry about it. It does not hurt the low-end too much having the boom touching , or slightly folding over the boom. There are a lot of different width booms on the market, and some seemed to have been designed more for ease of manufacturing, rather than what the sail really needs.
My thought was that the bottom batten was over tensioned so being totally stupid I just released the batten tension and then put it back on, without counting turns. Yes it helped a little, but I can't see any wrinkles and now I am finding it hard to get it back into position. I tensioned it until there was a little bit of a bow in the sail and it did not look flat anymore, around the lower batten.If I set the sail for max settings then the sailcloth will only touch the sail a little.
- The batten tension is not critical.
- if you don't see any wrinkles on either side of the batten pocket, my guess is the foot batten is over-tight.
- Back off the batten tension until the foot batten rotates as easily as you want
- Don't worry if there are slight wrinkles beside the pocket, the main thing is that the batten rotates.
- My suggestion for your tuning, is to start off with MED DH and OH and add or release depending on the power (or lack of) you require.- You need to do this sailing.
- Adjust the DH and OH by feel.
- Please see the enclosed pdf references.
- Also, if you want me to check your rigging, send me a picture with the sail lying on the ground, like the enclosed.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Best regards,David
I dont think the change in boom design was purely down to ease of manufacturing.
Duotone have a picture on their website which explains the 'new school' design for small wave booms, where the arms are straighter nearer the head so that where you grip the boom it is on a straight part and easier on the wrists. For slalom booms you hold the boom further away from the head.
www.duotonesports.com/windsurfing/hardware/booms/silver-series/
But if the tail piece is rounded you end up with a boom with narrow width. If you make the tail piece squarer, the boom will be a bit wider.
Unifiber have a squarer tail end
www.unifiber.net/windsurf-gear/booms/carbon-hd-monocoque-v2-5e574cf33af76e648c39cd2a
Chinook rounded. But I've got a 150 boom and dont have a problem with Ezzy sails, but I guess the Hydra is a lot deeper in draft than my sails.
chinooksailing.com/collections/pro-1-carbon-booms/products/pro-1-carbon-booms-28mm-modified
Look at the current RRD booms, the allow has a very narrow tail compared to their carbon boom
equipment.robertoriccidesigns.com/products/rig-components/
Select to expand quote
here is the difference between rrd 150 - 210 and duotone 190 to 250 (?). I still think at min settings the larger boom would be touching when there is pressure in the sail.
When I was pumping the sail or going through a gust that is when the sail was touching the sail.
Another issue to keep in mind is during Covid shipments were sitting in the steel containers outside on the docks for a month or more, down in Miami that meant sails got cooked in the hot sun, probably not a problem for most sails but since Ezzy ships their sails pretensioned it "could have" caused them to warp, have seen several new Ezzy sails in the last 2 years that had big loose scalloped areas between all the battens, and they were rigged on Ezzy masts to specification. I contacted Ezzy and they replied they ship all sails by airplane, but did not say when they started doing that. Now I did see an Ezzy sail that looked good, no loose sections, but do not know how old it was.
Its a 2018 sail
Lets not introduce some bizarre idea of warped sails without some pictures.
Select to expand quotePhilUK said..
Its a 2018 sail
Lets not introduce some bizarre idea of warped sails without some pictures.
Ah, well having seen a brand new Ezzy (paper liner was still there) rigged by an experienced windsurfer on an Ezzy mast, and then being called over for advice about the really loose sections between the battens does not count as a bizarre idea IMO. He had rigged it to factory specifications. And just cause your sail is a 2018 does not mean it did not sit somewhere in a hot shipping container!
And everyone else who has had the same problem was getting their equipment through the port of Miami via a local dealer.
Select to expand quotePhilUK said..
Its a 2018 sail
Lets not introduce some bizarre idea of warped sails without some pictures.
Does this count? Seriously, though, heat will delam sails (I have North NOS that had delam damage straight out of the bag) but not sure how fabric would warp.
Select to expand quoteHenners said..
here is the difference between rrd 150 - 210 and duotone 190 to 250 (?). I still think at min settings the larger boom would be touching when there is pressure in the sail.
When I was pumping the sail or going through a gust that is when the sail was touching the sail.
Which RRD boom is that? There isnt a 150-210 in their current lineup. What does the tail end look like, its not in the picture.
How does the boom compare to other wave booms?
I think its worth trying to eliminate the simpler causes rather than exposure to heat or whatever. There are a lot of second hand sails on the market so the chances of a duff one are small. Where are you?
Select to expand quotePhilUK said..Henners said..
here is the difference between rrd 150 - 210 and duotone 190 to 250 (?). I still think at min settings the larger boom would be touching when there is pressure in the sail.
When I was pumping the sail or going through a gust that is when the sail was touching the sail.
Which RRD boom is that? There isnt a 150-210 in their current lineup. What does the tail end look like, its not in the picture.
How does the boom compare to other wave booms?
I think its worth trying to eliminate the simpler causes rather than exposure to heat or whatever. There are a lot of second hand sails on the market so the chances of a duff one are small. Where are you?
Let's say that the boom used to be orange and has faded to yellow. It's old very old.
Kiddies are on holiday and I'm looking after them. But when I can escape or talk them into helping me, I will go through the boom graveyard and do some comparing. I will also get a pic of the other end of the boom.
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
Another issue to keep in mind is during Covid shipments were sitting in the steel containers outside on the docks for a month or more, down in Miami that meant sails got cooked in the hot sun, probably not a problem for most sails but since Ezzy ships their sails pretensioned it "could have" caused them to warp, have seen several new Ezzy sails in the last 2 years that had big loose scalloped areas between all the battens, and they were rigged on Ezzy masts to specification. I contacted Ezzy and they replied they ship all sails by airplane, but did not say when they started doing that. Now I did see an Ezzy sail that looked good, no loose sections, but do not know how old it was.
Friend purchased his Ezzy Legacy ?6.5M online from a shop is FL. Too good a deal. Rigging it up for the first time it just looked wrong with "warps". Correct spec Ezzy mast. We played around with the down and outhaul. Checked the batten tensions. The scallops. I've sailed a wide range of size and models of Ezzy sails since 2000. Since '12, the only brand I've owned. Have found zero issues new sails and have found them to be very durable. The Legacy was the first "defect" ever seen. Any Legacy users that have experienced the same issue? Maybe the price for a "economically priced" sail?
Here are some pics of the boom end + compared to older boom. The last picture is a 160 to 210 NP X3, others are slalom booms. They don't look that different. (Sorry for all the trash in the pics, it's an outdoor man cave)
When I get more time I will rig up the 6m and start to play with the down and outhaul. If I can't figure it out then I'll send some pics to David Ezzy to see what he thinks.
About the theory of warping. I'm not sure. Maybe the plastic could warp but could the specra yarn also stretch? Maybe the sail cloth that makes up the mast sleeve but it did not look that much larger.
Check out the last pic which is of the sail in min settings and I pushed it down to see how full the belly could get, also shows the material they use.
Let's not rule out user stupidity, I could be doing something wrong.
Sorry Phil I forgot to answer I live in Japan, but I'm an Australian.
Henners, as a general rule, I apply downhaul till the end of the first full length batten above the boom is in line with the front of the mast. I then adjust outhaul so that when powered up the sail is just off the boom. Looking at your photo, I reckon you need both more outhaul and downhaul.
Select to expand quoteHenners said..
Here are some pics of the boom end + compared to older boom.
The RRD boom end looks modern square shape, so its not that.
I'm puzzled now though, from clew to boom that measures 185cm on your picture, and for a 6m the boom range is 166 to 179 according to this.
Ah, thats your 7m (I hope). The first post said you had a 6m, but you have both 6 & 7m.
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..
Henners, as a general rule, I apply downhaul till the end of the first full length batten above the boom is in line with the front of the mast. I then adjust outhaul so that when powered up the sail is just off the boom. Looking at your photo, I reckon you need both more outhaul and downhaul.
Very good point. The batten was about 2cm Infront of the mast. But what started all this was that I set to the ezzy downhaul rigging plastic tab thingie to min. I am sure I could eyeball this and get the sail working. When I was on the water last weekish, I set it to what I think is eazy outhaul and downhaul for light wind. Once on the water I played around with the rigging until I got it into a better state but it wasn't at its most efficient for light wind. And it was still daily baggy.
Select to expand quotePhilUK said..
Ah, thats your 7m (I hope). The first post said you had a 6m, but you have both 6 & 7m.
Sorry, I have a 6m and 7m and the pics are of the 7m as I don't have any pics of the 6m and the Outhaul is 185 to 199cm for the 7m. Both sails are baggy.
Did you buy your mast new or second hand? I've had to shorten 2 mast a bit after I damaged the ends. That would throw the downhaul gauge out a bit.
If it were me, I'd start at medium settings like David Ezzy suggested. I have read that on a couple of occasions they had set the downhaul gauge incorrectly at the factory.
Select to expand quoteHenners said..John340 said..
Henners, as a general rule, I apply downhaul till the end of the first full length batten above the boom is in line with the front of the mast. I then adjust outhaul so that when powered up the sail is just off the boom. Looking at your photo, I reckon you need both more outhaul and downhaul.
Very good point. The batten was about 2cm Infront of the mast. But what started all this was that I set to the ezzy downhaul rigging plastic tab thingie to min. I am sure I could eyeball this and get the sail working. When I was on the water last weekish, I set it to what I think is eazy outhaul and downhaul for light wind. Once on the water I played around with the rigging until I got it into a better state but it wasn't at its most efficient for light wind. And it was still daily baggy.
Henners, sail rigging aids are just that, guidelines only. They don't take into account variability in sail manufacture tolerances, stretching of sail material and differences in mast deflection. Adjust your downhaul and outhaul to get your optimum sail shape and set.
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..Henners said..John340 said..
Henners, as a general rule, I apply downhaul till the end of the first full length batten above the boom is in line with the front of the mast. I then adjust outhaul so that when powered up the sail is just off the boom. Looking at your photo, I reckon you need both more outhaul and downhaul.
Very good point. The batten was about 2cm Infront of the mast. But what started all this was that I set to the ezzy downhaul rigging plastic tab thingie to min. I am sure I could eyeball this and get the sail working. When I was on the water last weekish, I set it to what I think is eazy outhaul and downhaul for light wind. Once on the water I played around with the rigging until I got it into a better state but it wasn't at its most efficient for light wind. And it was still daily baggy.
Henners, sail rigging aids are just that, guidelines only. They don't take into account variability in sail manufacture tolerances, stretching of sail material and differences in mast deflection. Adjust your downhaul and outhaul to get your optimum sail shape and set.
Good advice.
Tomorrow is Saturday. I am going to escape from the family and rig up the 6m. I'll use Ezzy's DH guidelines starting with max, setting the OH to their recommendations and then if it does not look right I will readjust, and do the same at each of the DH markers (DH markers will become a datumn, for reference). Take some pictures and send them over to David and ask him for his recommendations.
This sail is meant to be very deep to get you off the water and then once up and flying that deep shape is meant to contract. The question is just how deep it is meant to be. You got to be able to flip the sail at a minimum.
Then I think we can put this thread to bed, just in time for the foiling season to start. I report back with all the relevant stuff I find out.
A friend bought 2020 Ezzy Waves and he had the same issue of them touching the boom on the lower settings. He emailed David Ezzy and he said thats how they are designed. I think the recent ones are a bit flatter. Maybe it was the same with the first Hydras, very full in the first version.
On my Lions, after 100 sessions I checked the calibration of the downhaul gauge against the dots on the leech and they still matched. I dont think they stretch.
Select to expand quoteHenners said..John340 said..Henners said..John340 said..
Henners, as a general rule, I apply downhaul till the end of the first full length batten above the boom is in line with the front of the mast. I then adjust outhaul so that when powered up the sail is just off the boom. Looking at your photo, I reckon you need both more outhaul and downhaul.
Very good point. The batten was about 2cm Infront of the mast. But what started all this was that I set to the ezzy downhaul rigging plastic tab thingie to min. I am sure I could eyeball this and get the sail working. When I was on the water last weekish, I set it to what I think is eazy outhaul and downhaul for light wind. Once on the water I played around with the rigging until I got it into a better state but it wasn't at its most efficient for light wind. And it was still daily baggy.
Henners, sail rigging aids are just that, guidelines only. They don't take into account variability in sail manufacture tolerances, stretching of sail material and differences in mast deflection. Adjust your downhaul and outhaul to get your optimum sail shape and set.
Good advice.
Tomorrow is Saturday. I am going to escape from the family and rig up the 6m. I'll use Ezzy's DH guidelines starting with max, setting the OH to their recommendations and then if it does not look right I will readjust, and do the same at each of the DH markers (DH markers will become a datumn, for reference). Take some pictures and send them over to David and ask him for his recommendations.
This sail is meant to be very deep to get you off the water and then once up and flying that deep shape is meant to contract. The question is just how deep it is meant to be. You got to be able to flip the sail at a minimum.
Then I think we can put this thread to bed, just in time for the foiling season to start. I report back with all the relevant stuff I find out.
Sounds like a plan
I took all the pics and sent them over to David.
From what he explained to me is that it is fine the way it is and "- It is no problem if the sail hits or wraps around the boom on fuller settings."
Max, mid settings are fine. It was the min setting that I had a problem with.
Here are the min pics, just in case anyone else is a bit concerned.
Thanks to everyone for your insight.
