How much is too much?

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TalkToMe said..
So, generally speaking for most people, and if you all had to choose just one factor with all being equal for when deciding on a board, it would basically be price?

To hell with the number of team riders a brand has, forget about the colours/design even perhaps, price is basically king?

Would that be fair?

No. Not for me anyways. I originally went custom due to the fact that none of the big names make what "I" want. Admittedly, the price i paid for a carbon/inegra construction custom was far less than any brand name can offer, but thats just a very welcomed bonus!

One solution as far as racing is concerned to the projected 30% increase in board costs might be to increase the number of inflatable classes in races. Inflatables are still not cheap, but they are usually about half the price of a carbon board. So, if cost is a problem, and you really believe that you can only fairly race with a carbon race board, then moving to an inflatable class would meet your budget and keep the playing field more level for all. It would also spur on the manufacturers to construction innovation.

Here in the UK we pretty much already know what people will pay for a raceboard. Brands like Naish and Bark in particular have produced uber-expensive construction boards in the last 5 years. Virtually no-one bought them. There will always be a tiny cadre of highly competitive people who will pay just about anything to gain a perceived advantage, especially if they are getting boards at sponsored rider rates. But for most people, I think the market was already pretty much at the limit of what people are willing to spend. Retailers use the cost of bikes to justify optimism about what people will pay for their sports equipment like SUPs. But there just isn't the same perceived value in a board as compared with eg. a bike, nor the same longevity. And whereas you can buy a bike very cheaply if you want to and it is a mode of transport as well as a sport, so huge numbers of people effectively are drawn into to the sport, neither is true is of SUP. Even the cheapest new race SUP is out of the question for 90% of the population, and you aren't going to be saving money SUPing to the shops to buy your groceries. And when you come to sell your super-expensive race SUP it is going to be worth diddly-squat because the brands have lied to everyone about the new boards being 10% faster then the old ones.

Dave Kalama's provocative suggestion that everyone should race on inflatables seems to have more and more merit. The same people would win regardless. And racing isn't about the enjoyment of paddling anyway, so who cares if iSUPs don't perform as well as hard boards. Travel to races would increase hugely and the costs of dings etc. would almost be eliminated. And more people could enter racing because transport, storage and outright costs would be much more favourable. Maybe the AUD exchange rate crisis this year will be a spur to finding lower-cost ways of SUPing, including inflatable classes at races.

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Area10 said..
One solution as far as racing is concerned to the projected 30% increase in board costs might be to increase the number of inflatable classes in races.

(edited just to save space)

Here in the UK we pretty much already know what people will pay for a raceboard. Brands like Naish and Bark in particular have produced uber-expensive construction boards in the last 5 years. Virtually no-one bought them.

(more editing)

Maybe the AUD exchange rate crisis this year will be a spur to finding lower-cost ways of SUPing, including inflatable classes at races.

Excellent post. I don't think anyone should dispute the fact that those super expensive Naish and Bark boards of a couple years back were indeed next level construction, with the price reflective of the cost to produce them. However, they simply weren't proportionally faster and better on the water relative to the price increase. Starboard is in a similar situation now, albeit boards like the Sprint in particular are without peer for the conditions they are intended. You can go get a custom board made but you won't beat the Sprint over 200m or 1km.

What people are perhaps overlooking is that the second level of construction from these manufacturers is really the equivalent quality and similar price to most of the other brands top level as well as the customs. They are still carbon fibre, but just not the same grade or construction technique as the very pricey boards. So if you want to compare apples with apples, don't look at the top shelf.

I think Area10 is talking a lot of sense with inflatable racing classes, especially at anything up to and just short of state level events. I was paddling with some buddies just the other day and we were saying it would be great to start taking our inflatable race boards to the club and social races instead of carbon boards. It would bring the fun back to the sport, which is something that is sorely missing most of the time. Let the hot shots bang up their carbon boards at state and national titles while the rest of us enjoy ourselves in a more civilised fashion on our blow ups.

The other benefit with inflatables is they can be imported and shipped to buyers all over the country at a much cheaper shipping cost. And then when you go to sell, it is not as challenging to send it interstate.

One design is not the answer, I don't think. Not unless you want to settle on 12'6" x 23.5" as that is the elite board size of choice, or so it seems.

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AndyR said..
As long as we still have real boards to down wind cause really that's all the matters ;) . The racing side in Aus isn't really much anyways. Yeah all the clubs have their races etc, they aren't anything to rave about. but there's hardly a world class race event in Aus like you see in the states and the couple in Europe. Besides one which is Our best race in Aus. KoTC and it's down wind.
Inflato's are fun in my opinion and in a flat calm water area I'd happily race them but not in choppy ocean stuff they just bounce around to much and fold to much.

Oh absolutely. Even though I've downwinded a blow up (and it's very do-able), but it's not the optimum. I'm happy to spend the money on a dedicated DW board, no question.

As for the racing side, I don't even think the waning interest is exclusive to Australia. SUP racing is at the crossroads all around the world right now so far as I can see. With BoP California and World Series events falling over, and with Kai Lenny gone AWOL, it seems like the rapid growth of the sport at the top end has hit a bit of a reality check. I understand organisers of events in this part of the country have done some soul searching, and they intend to get back to the grass roots of the sport with a plan to run events for average punters instead of the shrinking number of elites. Makes sense.

NIsco size would be perfect... all makes..12'6 x 30"..needs to be floaty and stable for the 90 % of people who want to be involved and who don't, and never will, have the dimensions of Kai Lenny in terms of either weight or width ()

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bradsdubs said..
NIsco size would be perfect... all makes..12'6 x 30"..needs to be floaty and stable for the 90 % of people who want to be involved and who don't, and never will, have the dimensions of Kai Lenny in terms of either weight or width ()

If you look at kayaking, the standardised race craft limits are set at the elite end of the spectrum, then they create classes for mere mortals beyond that. So your 12'6" x 30" class is feasible, but the pros would be racing on toothpicks.

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JeanG said..
Someone please clear this up for me.

Why would you pay more for a factory board than a custom from an established, well respected shaper? For the sake of argument, say that the custom is either the same weight or lighter.

I think the answer is risk. A "well respected shaper" to you may be a total unknown to me. So yes, if I was confident in the shaper's skills, and their ability to provide support (in a timely fashion) should there be a problem with the board, then I would go with that shaper (as I recently did). But speaking generally, "Joe Public" may not have that same confidence and thus may feel more comfortable, rightly or wrongly, with the "big brand" board.

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DirectX said..
I only buy second hand now, not worth buying new in my opinion, just too expensive...

Yep but buyer beware! I have bought both new and second hand over the years without too many issues. Then I recently bought an ex demo 14ft board, only to find out after its second paddle that there was a crack in the fin box (invisible to the naked eye ). Fair enough, replaced the fin box, then on its next paddle looked down and saw the air bubbles popping away next to the carry handle. Havent taken it in to be repaired yet but the deck grip will have to be cut away from that area etc etc so it won't be cheap. Basically I am just edging further to what I would have paid for a brand spanking new board, and without time spent heading to and fro to the repair shop......

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Macaha said..

PTWoody said..

JeanG said..
Someone please clear this up for me.

Why would you pay more for a factory board than a custom from an established, well respected shaper? For the sake of argument, say that the custom is either the same weight or lighter.

Resale. Why would I want to buy a board that was customised for you? And why are you selling it if it was made perfectly for you? Is it a dud shape that you asked for (not the shaper's fault)?

PT theres nothing more enjoyable and rewarding sitting down with your shaper and having input in a board that suites you,so why wouldn't you go custom.
As far as your comments go on custom dude boards,I've only had one over a 50 plus custom board purchase.I have no trouble selling my customs.I can't stand
buying boards off the rack,they all look and feel boring compared to a custom.Only a surfer knows the feeling

I get that, when it comes to surfing. I'm not a surfer so it doesn't really apply to my SUP activities. Yes there are two or three quality shapers in the entire country regularly shaping race and downwind boards, but I have far more faith in people like Brian Szymanski and Mathieu Rauzier than I have in myself to order specific design requirements in a race shape.

My answer above regarding resale is just intended as a potential reason why people choose to go with a known brand design instead of a custom shape. I appreciate that you have sold your boards but I've witnessed friends down this way unable to sell custom race boards. It's just A reason someone might choose to go with a brand, but it's not necessarily fair or correct.

PT resale never coming into it when I order a custom thats just being negative from the start.

OK I ride McTavish high end longboards and have done for years,if I was into sup surfing I'd
be at Deep and DC I guess living on the GC has its advantages with world class shapers just
down the road.

Back on topic 30% price increase is just crazy in any industry. The only advice I can give is be loyal
to the store,I'm sure they will cut you a good deal with your trade.

Interesting to hear jacko say he got scared when he saw the price list.
I dont know the ins and outs of retail but how can a shop owner stock a range of boards at 3k plus and hope that they can move them on before the accounts due to be paid and stay viable as a business.
Personally I update my surfing sups when my fav brand brings a new model out but trying to move my sub 8 ft boards on to a willing buyer is a hard task

A little off topic here, but to answer Ashmullet's question about shop owners and business viability, I don't think you will be seeing too many race boards "in stock" sitting in racks for people to go and look at. You might have the odd demo board, but I think it will be "order board(after looking at brochure)-pay for board-wait many weeks-recieve board-(question if you made right decision)" this is just my guess.

So the 30% starboard increase next year will be matched by all brands, no?

If it is currency related, why have they held out on raising prices this year instead of next year?

Also, if retailers in OZ take on that novel idea of order-when-sold approach with their distributors, as in only having a brochure and ordering a board when a customer passes over the coin, will the retailed still ask/expect to get their regular profit margin? Which is what, 35% markup?

I don't know actually what the margin/markuo on boards is, just guestimating here. Anyone in the industry here?

If I was a retailer I would look at some of the smaller brands out there.

Dave Kalama started his own lineup of board (www.imaginesurf.com/) which to quote the website are "balanced line of versatile, affordable, durable and great performance boards".

If any other brand said that I would think its all just words but with Dave Kalama behind it I would trust him. I presume when they say affordable it would be priced under the big brands.

Does anyone know do the retailers have to buy through distributors or can they go direct?