Really nice board, with a very Simmons-like "camel deck" foil.
Should be a hell of fun to ride!
It seems to have some concave between the fins?
Ha ha Piros .. That would be great Lockie.. I am busy trying to get the back yard ready at present for some "Better Grass" and have limited leave passes at present. Yeah..the patent process is underway of course just like my other good ideas.. Will be keen in the future to catch up and try one out. It looks like fun.
There is a concave but Aaron has been playing with a vee to allow the board to turn quicker and surf off the rails a bit more. I expected this board due to the fat tail to be hard to cutback with or to have some deficiencies compared to my HP 8.0 in some ares but I can honestly say that I have not found one yet. It seems to do everything better and it is lighter to carry as well. He is also working on designs for bigger SUP surfers at present. I think that surfing and SUP share some design elements but there is also a lot of differences which can help a SUP surfer surf better and the new boarded are no different. Fin placement is also very important apparently. I find that it drives off the bottom harder and can turn in a tighter arc with less lag time between changes in direction. Snappier (is that a word?) -patent pending- comes to mind. I will measure the front tomorrow.
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So I've finally managed to get up a video showing the stability of this board. This is the the third generation of the wide tail board that is shown. On my new one last picture blue and green one above there is more volume in the tail and a
more pronounced vee. It is also a 7'3" @ 100 litres. I feel that the fourth generation boards are an improvement on this one. I will make a new video soon on the new board ASAP ..
Select to expand quoteporchey73 said..
So I've finally managed to get up a video showing the stability of this board. This is the the third generation of the wide tail board that is shown. On my new one last picture blue and green one above there is more volume in the tail and a
more pronounced vee. It is also a 7'3" @ 100 litres. I feel that the fourth generation boards are an improvement on this one. I will make a new video soon on the new board ASAP ..
Can't you put a wing on it
What i like on the Vangard design is your front foot position allowed by the reduced width And still a paddling stability providing by the square nose of the board . As shown on this , is it right
Select to expand quoteporchey73 said..
My new box has arrived and will be be ridden as soon as I get deck grip.
Just wondering what the dimensions etc are on these boards in the photos,
Jarryd
Top board Green tail :- 7-3 x 26-1/2 101 L built for 100kg rider Azza he has amazing balance skills (the shaper of all 3 boards) his last board was only 95 L and can still paddle & surf it . I had a go at 90kg found really hard but I'm sure I would be fine on this one.
Middle board Orange tail :- 7-5 x 27 104 L built for low 80kg rider Porchey (author of this post)
Bottom Board Red tail :- 7-8 x 27-1/2 107 L built for 94kg rider Bretty
It would be interesting to see how this board performs in more aggressive conditions. Lets be honest and this is not to detract against what may have already been said in terms of positives but these really are tame and very friendly to the rider. Throw a bit of chop into the mix and I think it would be a better assessment. I did notice that there appeared to be water going over the deck so I wonder how much drag there is. In saying that it does not appear to be hamstrung by this and just takes off. This and the Minion seem to be getting a lot of interest and its easy to see why.
Ozzie
The orange board in the video is only 95L , I struggled on that board. I rode another one not in the pics 7-7 x 27 apx 105L it was so stable even in wind cross chop and after riding that I'm getting one made 7-6 x 26 apx 100L
Loving the Tomo inspired SUPS, I have a couple of his Firewire shortys and am absolutely stoked on them. They work well in bigger waves as well!
Here is a good article which explains the design concept and to me, explains also why they would work well when translated to a SUP.
www.surfersjournal.com/feature/daniel-thomson-and-the-speed-of-phi/
Only comment I would make is to give the 'V' bottoms the flick as it defeats the purpose of the design.
Select to expand quoteghost4man said..
It would be interesting to see how this board performs in more aggressive conditions.
What I found is that in chop, two factors can help:
- a shape that do not change behavior a lot while rocked 'n rolled. "Wide everywhere" for me have this effect, whereas "pumpkin seeds" shapes tend to throw you around more. These Simmons / wombat shapes (and I guess Tomo / Minion) are noticeably stabler in a minefield
- low volume relative to the width. On small boards, I found out I fall often when the board is "too quick" to correct balance. I mean, when it dips right, you correct it and are thrown overboard left as it rigthens too quickly. It seems to happen to me more on "corky" boards, reducing the volume to make it sit more in the water seems to dampen the reactions and make it more controllable, although more tiring as you must react quicker overall.
Basically, it seems to me that reducing volume makes narrower boards more unstable and tiring in chop, but you actually fall less while focused.
I'm looking this zoom from picture's TUX and i 'm thinking this kind of square nose provide a rail extension very useful in barrel ride, and more on backside attack
And finally that kind of nose got more advantage than only paddling.
Haven't heard a bad thing about any of the new firewire boards, definitely gonna look at getting one of these, just have to do some work on the dimensions as i'm a little heavier,
Jarryd
Sorry wasn't really clear on the vee bit on the bottom... There is a concave in the middle just like the original vanguard tomo boards however Aaron has introduced a vee in the middle as well.. This was to stop dish panning which seemed to be happening in previous versions of this design.. As discussed previously this is the third version The fourth is out now and works better than the orange board seen in this video.
He said something else as well but I forgot it. I know that when I was testing the earlier versions of this board I found that I had to move my back foot around in certain manoeuvres ,and, although the board was fast, it lacked the tighter turning ability of this board. yes there is a demo board doing the rounds at present .. yes the width of this board is great for me. I don't have think about foot placement anymore as a result .. Azza is happy to talk to you about what he has done.
Ps love those photos Tux
Select to expand quotecolas said..ghost4man said..
It would be interesting to see how this board performs in more aggressive conditions.
What I found is that in chop, two factors can help:
- a shape that do not change behavior a lot while rocked 'n rolled. "Wide everywhere" for me have this effect, whereas "pumpkin seeds" shapes tend to throw you around more. These Simmons / wombat shapes (and I guess Tomo / Minion) are noticeably stabler in a minefield
- low volume relative to the width. On small boards, I found out I fall often when the board is "too quick" to correct balance. I mean, when it dips right, you correct it and are thrown overboard left as it rigthens too quickly. It seems to happen to me more on "corky" boards, reducing the volume to make it sit more in the water seems to dampen the reactions and make it more controllable, although more tiring as you must react quicker overall.
Basically, it seems to me that reducing volume makes narrower boards more unstable and tiring in chop, but you actually fall less while focused.
Coles, you make some interesting points here. I relate this back to an experience I had the summer that went by. A friend of mine was in the water on his brand new Fanatic Allwave 9'6" which I am guessing was about 140 litres. There was quite a bit of chop and he really wanted to have a go of my 101 litre JP Pro 8'2x28. At 98kg the board just sank under his feet but in the meantime I jumped on his board. Now I had zero issues in standing up but the board quite literally kept throwing me off with the water movement. It was just way too corky for me and with my 73kg I had little capacity to weigh the board down in the water which confirms what you said in your commentary. We swapped boards and once I got back on mine I the board sat more in the water with a lot less corkiness.
I am noticing more and more Colas that people are focusing on volume by itself. I am thinking more and more that this is missing the bigger picture and what we should be looking at is volume distribution and design. Volume as a figure by itself in the absence of anything else is not meaningful. What we are seeing with these smaller boards is the distribution of volume contained by a specific shape which is resulting in someppretty amazing outcomes. Obviously these Minion and Vanguard boards are creating some real buzz and just seeing guys over 90kg riding boards 7 foot and under with little more than 100 litres is truly remarkable. As I said I think the real test will be how these board perform in more aggressive conditions.
.
^fully agree. I'm dividing my time between 2 boards ATM , a JP Fusion and an Allwave. There is 1litre difference in volume but the Allwave is short, thick with fat rails, floats me fairly high, is pretty corky and a real handful in choppy conditions. The Fusion is bit longer but thinner, with the volume a bit more evenly distributed, plus dropped rails...it sits a good bit lower in the water with me on it, it kind of feels a bit more rolly in messy water but doesn't pitch me off and is generally a lot more tractable.
Just came back from the Mentawais......I'm 87kg's & I rode a 5'8" Firewire Vanguard consistently in solid 6-10' conditions when most guys in the line up were riding 6'10"-7'6"...it never missed a beat.
Definitely felt the advantages of the nose holding a rail when dragging backside into barrels.
Would love to try the design on a SUP, I reckon you could go at least a foot (maybe 2ft) shorter than your shortest surfing SUP ?
Select to expand quoteAmundAqua said..
Just came back from the Mentawais......I'm 87kg's & I rode a 5'8" Firewire Vanguard consistently in solid 6-10' conditions when most guys in the line up were riding 6'10"-7'6"...it never missed a beat.
Definitely felt the advantages of the nose holding a rail when dragging backside into barrels.
Would love to try the design on a SUP, I reckon you could go at least a foot (maybe 2ft) shorter than your shortest surfing SUP ?
You convince me , it's going to be my ShortSUP all-around good wave. Thank you for reported it
