Select to expand quoteNozza said..
Second plot shows rocker.
interesting side point - my Naish 17, which is a year or two older than Nozza's, has visibly less nose rocker than his one (about 3" maybe, from eyeballing the two boards side-by-side).
Select to expand quoteNozza said..
Disclaimer -- no technical knowledge in board design, conclusions / observations are mine only based on personal experience.
Not an expert paddler, but I do a lot of it - every morning it is not too foul on Port Phillip.
Long background dabbling in trying to understand yacht / skiff design.
Surveyor - I measure things for a living.
Using surveying software to plot boards - not ideal.
I guess that's disclaimers.
Spent some time measuring the boards I have, F16, 17'4" Bullet, and 17' Naish.
Too much time on my hands, included my other 2 boards, SIC 12'6" Bullet and SIC 14' V2
Plan view first, this is total width of board, not rail width, but difference between rails and edge of board are visually similar across all boards.
Generally measured on my own, with a t square on one side of the board, me sighting the other side, plus or minus 5mm at best.
Top plot (not as clear as it could be) shows the back of the boards lines up.
Stand out observations - plan view of the back end of all boards unbelievably similar.
Minor differences in pin tail or cut off pin. No square ends dragging a hole in the water behind them.
17'4" Bullet blue
Naish 17 Orange - sorry, yellow plots crappy.
F16 Green
V2 black.
!2'6 Bullet pale blue.
Rough conclusion, SIC put the same back on the board, just finish it sooner. Happy to be contradicted.
12'6 widest of all, which makes sense, but not hugely so.
Stand out strange thing - Naish 17 and F16 remarkably similar in plan shape until the F16 finishes sooner. Needle nose not as radical as it appears.
Lower plot I made the assumption the handle is the balance point of the board, so moved the boards and lined up the handles.
Rough conclusion, the bit of the board you are standing on is very similar in plan shape across all boards
Second plot shows rocker.
This was measured by a level laser shone along the board.
Magillamelb measured the F16 at 500 mm spaces, I did the rest at 300 mm spaces.
Illogically, plots start at the bottom.
This shows the straight bit under the standing area levelled, backs of the boards lined up.
With the middle of the boards level, F16 to 17’4” Bullet within 10mm of nose rocker, Naish 80mm less
.Tail rocker more significant difference, Naish 80mm, Bullet 90mm, F16 130mm.
Middle plot
Moved the boards to line up the handles. standing area still level.
12’6” Bullet very close to F16
F16 and 17’4” Bullet even closer than before
Naish similar to Bullet until the front.
All 4 SIC boards progression on a theme.
Top plot
Rotated about the handle so the back of the board is level with the handle – mimic when stepped back surfing
This is a bit approximate.
12’6” Bullet mimics F16
V2 mimics 17’4” Bullet
Naish less rockered than all of them.
All 3 big boards are big rockered downwind boards.
My uninformed conclusions
Differences between the 3 boards not as radical as may appear.
Stuff all between F16 and 17'4" Bullet - Bullet uses more bow volume to do the same thing as bigger bow rocker on the f16.
Naish has less rocker, but how much is enough - nose going under water not the tragedy it is on the bigger volume boards.
Apparent needle nose of Naish not that different from F16
Images came out a bit crappy.
If you are interested, PM me and I can email beter pdf copies.
Ultimate conclusion, every board there is pleasant to paddle.
The smaller SIC boards look like bits chopped from the bigger boards.
12'6' sic best fills the all options 1 board quiver.
But I have the 17'4" Bullet on the roof for tomorrow.
Nozza - I am not personally a downwinder/flatwater guy, but I have to say A+ for effort putting all this information together!
Select to expand quotecantSUPenough said..Nozza said..
Nozza - I am not personally a downwinder/flatwater guy, but I have to say A+ for effort putting all this information together!
Thanks - I didn't put that together in a night - it's a summary of about 5 months of bimbling.
Hadn't noticed we had autocorrect before - Laurie if I want to type BIMBLING let me without changing it to bumbling.
Just trying to understand the boards without manufacturer spin, or "expert" opinion.
There is probably a lot more knowledge out there that could inform people, if we bothered to pass on stuff.
I could do history of how I got to having these boards, but probably irrelevant.
Was well guided as a beginner by a now sorely missed retailer.
But will I do a bit of history anyway, short version.
After paddling for a bit over a year, I heard about unlimited boards.
17', 20'.
No idea what attracted me, way beyond my abilities, but I picked up some cues, followed some contacts.
Found out there was a 17' Naish that once existed.
And still did.
Locally.
For below $1000.
Hooked.
Once I got the Naish 17, everything previous became irrelevant.
I am a big (have been up to 103kg) bloke, now clumsy, unco, 53, at the time unfit, still somewhat unfit, challenged balance wise after being an agile, well balanced younger person (I think Youth stops before you are 20)
Lessons from my early paddling.
The board that suits a 75 kg person is never going to suit me.
Major anxiety after buying the Naish unpaddled - I was going from 29" wide to sub 27".
What if I couldn't paddle it?
What if?
Big part of my life at the time.
Naish was stable, well behaved, narrow
Lovely to paddle.
Couldn't see any point in progressing any further, I was satisfied and happy - I had my daily paddler.
And apparently a downwinder, but not going there yet.
Did upgrade my first 17' Naish for a 2.5kg lighter carbon version sourced after Merimbula.
Double happy.
Helmy (the 75kg bloke) was in my ear about SIC boards.
Wasn't interested.
17'4" Bullet came up for sale in Adelaide.
Double Carbon Composite.
OOHH!
Interest pricked.
For reasons I still don't understand, I decided to buy it.
Would get it and compare to the Naish.
No way it could be as good.
Drove over and got it - I do like a road trip.
Was worried when I first saw it in Adelaide - it was massive, huge, thick.
I had driven over to buy something I had never seen, not sure what I was getting, what it was meant to look like, no idea what I was expecting.
The colours were pretty, so I bought it and brought it back.
Took it for a paddle the next morning in a big south easterly at Half Moon Bay.
This gives you nice, sheltered flat water to launch in, you paddle out, and then discover the south easterly is actually southerly, and you have left over south westerly swell.
Was astounded by how stable, and the word "planted" springs up, the SIC was. No misbehaviour downwind, the back didn't want to overtake the front, didn't want to put the nose under.
Back upwind a lot more work than the Naish, but I had a new daily paddler.
I think a couple of months passed, started to browse the SIC website.
Learnt of the F16. One came up for sale in QLD, hollow, Maui built board, but advertised at 30" wide, not 27" as they were meant to be.
Was told by experts forget it, too wide etc.
Emailed the seller, asked how wide it was. He said not written on it anywhere.
Asked could he measure it?
Sub 27". Bought it.
I didn't actually particularly want it, but was curious as to what it was, and I was confident Helmy, though not brave enough to buy it from QLD, would buy it from me once it was in Melbourne.
And it was "Made in Maui". Mythical.
And if you are following the "How much is too much ?" thread, the as new 17'4" Bullet didn't exceed my $2500 limit, and everything else has been well below $2,000.
Rang the seller of the 17'4" Bullet, who had said he could have got it shipped to me.
Adelaide was driveable, Gold Coast not, he put me on to Richard the Kayak Courier.
F16 delivered door to door.
Friendship with Helmy sorely tested - this was a very nice board.
Hollow, light, paddled it a few times, to me it lacked the absolute "planted" feel of the Bullet.
But really nice.
Never misbehaved, but with V bottom and double concave, was tippier for me.
And I am 20kg heavier than Helmy, so with regret I passed it on.
We were also both getting major wife questions as to "Who owns that board?" so took the pressure off me.
Had been measuring and comparing the boards as they arrived - pleasant time spent in garage.
After the success of the F16 purchase, 12'6" Bullet was on Seabreeze for $900.
Maybe $950.
Up on the Gold Coast again.
What's to lose?
Never thought I would paddle a 12'6" board again, got it down, and brilliant.
Lovely to paddle, massively stable, no faults, made me question my obsession with unlimiteds.
This is when I got really curious about the dimensions of the boards - interestingly, the 12'6" has I think 27.25" wide written on it, when it is 28 and 1/2" at least.
But absolutely brilliant to paddle, and whoever I said I would get back to you , LOz something maybe, that's why.
I think my measurements confirm why - I am standing on pretty much the same bit of board as the 17'4" Bullet.
The web site claims "1 board quiver" status for the 12'6", but I won't go that far.
I rotate between 17'Naish (best all round), 17'4" Bullet (safe, if I don't want to try), and 12'6" Bullet (who am I kidding with the others, this is brilliant)
Somewhere in there I bought a 14' V2 Bullet (sub $2500), and it is also faultless, but overlaps the 12'6" and the 17'4" a bit too much for me - it may be the one board quiver.
But I think it suits a lighter bloke, and I'm pretty sure I know where I can move it on to...........
Wow, that got long.
