I have a naish Hokua ..and have been playing around with fins ,three then four same day same size wave ...
It was a biggish day .a solid -6 foot ,a slow face ,but long bottom hand turns and a lumpy wave ..I was having trouble with the three fins as I was spinning out in the chop and lacked drive to get around the sections ..
so went in and changed .to 4 ...,It changed the board completely .....I was able to catch the waves easier .? 
it was more stable ..and my turns had to be more longer ,but it did snap out of the turns faster and with more speed ,which was great .the extra speed sure did come in handy when racing the white wash ..even though not as loose ,it made up for speed ,and easier catch ,The surfers I where out with on 6.0 and 5-11 where're having a hell of a time trying to catch them...it was big and powerful but lumpy ...I caught twice as many ...even though I had to wait for the white water to clear ,to get back out .
4 fins are great in bigger surf and really glued the rear end to the face ..with speed ..it surprised me ...
anyone else found this ?
I have to confess that fins are a complete mystery to me. Maybe the only way I will understand the difference is to constantly experiment in the same conditions with different configurations. For example, my Flow is set up with the Sunova supplied quads. What difference would I experience if it had the thruster setup instead? There were times when I struggled to get the speed and drive I wanted. But is that my technique, the wave shape/power at that moment, or the fins? If you slide out in a bottom turn then I can imagine that fins would make a difference, but how else do you know you have the wrong fins?
I had a 9' Hokua and played around a lot with different fins and quad v Tri set ups and came to same conclusion. In the bigger waves where I surf the quad was better for fanging down the line on steep faces and holding in the rail on the face and keeping drive to avoid getting smashed by a close out. I liked the tri fin set up in smaller softer waves where I could crank a bottom turn and ride more top to bottom. Where as the quad in soft waves tended to want ride DTL and didn't come off the bottom turn hard as a tri fin.
I now have the Sunova Acid 8'11 and it is a tri set up. The stock Sunova fins are quite big so I have got a set of FCS Nexus H-3 Large which are smaller and flexier. The new fins have made the board looser and more responsive. I recommend trying different fins as they can completely change how the board rides and feels. It is how to customise the board for your conditions, weight and ridin style.
Select to expand quotecantSUPenough said..
If you slide out in a bottom turn then I can imagine that fins would make a difference, but how else do you know you have the wrong fins?
If you are sliding out in a bottom turn it is more likely that you are not committing the paddle to the turn and not putting it in the wave face and getting enough leverage on it to engage the rail and fin cluster. When thinking about fin performance I always think about technique first so I am sure it is not poor riding that is the issue versus the fins not right for me.
Select to expand quotecantSUPenough said..
I have to confess that fins are a complete mystery to me. Maybe the only way I will understand the difference is to constantly experiment in the same conditions with different configurations. For example, my Flow is set up with the Sunova supplied quads. What difference would I experience if it had the thruster setup instead? There were times when I struggled to get the speed and drive I wanted. But is that my technique, the wave shape/power at that moment, or the fins? If you slide out in a bottom turn then I can imagine that fins would make a difference, but how else do you know you have the wrong fins?
cantSUPenough: I have done a ton of experimenting with my 8'7" Flow like yours. All different sizes in all kinds of different combinations. When I tried the quad setup that comes with the board (5.125" fronts and 4.75" rears) it was too much fin area for me (75 kilos). I spent quite a bit of time experimenting with different thruster combinations, and then went back to playing with quad setups which make sense on that board because of the widish tail. I went down as small as 4" fronts and 3.5" rears, and the board was super loose but I lost too much drive. For now I have settled on 4.5" fronts and 3.5" rears, and it is working great for me. I have a theory that one reason a lot of people feel that quads are stiffer than thrusters, especially with SUPs, is that they are running rear fins that are too large. I have read about others like myself who experimented with very small rear quad fins, and found the best of both the drive of a quad and the tight turning of a thruster. Maybe start by playing with that idea.
Select to expand quoteobijohn said..cantSUPenough said..
I have to confess that fins are a complete mystery to me. Maybe the only way I will understand the difference is to constantly experiment in the same conditions with different configurations. For example, my Flow is set up with the Sunova supplied quads. What difference would I experience if it had the thruster setup instead? There were times when I struggled to get the speed and drive I wanted. But is that my technique, the wave shape/power at that moment, or the fins? If you slide out in a bottom turn then I can imagine that fins would make a difference, but how else do you know you have the wrong fins?
cantSUPenough: I have done a ton of experimenting with my 8'7" Flow like yours. All different sizes in all kinds of different combinations. When I tried the quad setup that comes with the board (5.125" fronts and 4.75" rears) it was too much fin area for me (75 kilos). I spent quite a bit of time experimenting with different thruster combinations, and then went back to playing with quad setups which make sense on that board because of the widish tail. I went down as small as 4" fronts and 3.5" rears, and the board was super loose but I lost too much drive. For now I have settled on 4.5" fronts and 3.5" rears, and it is working great for me. I have a theory that one reason a lot of people feel that quads are stiffer than thrusters, especially with SUPs, is that they are running rear fins that are too large. I have read about others like myself who experimented with very small rear quad fins, and found the best of both the drive of a quad and the tight turning of a thruster. Maybe start by playing with that idea.
Thanks for your comments (and sorry for hijacking Tardy's thread 
). You said "way too much fin area" - how did you know? Was it too stiff to turn? To me the combination of speed, wave-shape, and especially back-foot location makes such a huge difference that I am not sure how you know what the contribution is of the fins.
Select to expand quoteStev0 said..cantSUPenough said..
If you slide out in a bottom turn then I can imagine that fins would make a difference, but how else do you know you have the wrong fins?
If you are sliding out in a bottom turn it is more likely that you are not committing the paddle to the turn and not putting it in the wave face and getting enough leverage on it to engage the rail and fin cluster. When thinking about fin performance I always think about technique first so I am sure it is not poor riding that is the issue versus the fins not right for me.
I must admit I have not slid-out in a long time, but that may have something to do with the waves I am frequently riding.
One of the reasons I ask is because next March I am off to the Maldives and I would like to be prepared. There are often fast waves with the possibility of being barreled, and sometimes I get going so fast I struggle to get enough bite to turn. I know I have technique issues in that situation but I would like to know which board shape is best suited (Speeed or Flow) and which fins would be best.
Hi jacking is good ..we learn off each other .
I went back to a tri fin today ,and moved it up the front ,,,Far to loose..lost all my drive .
wobbly as all hell ..and side ways most of the time ..I didn't mind it but ..kept sliding down the face and couldn't get back up ,as well.had to pump ..it was small and choppy ..but a steep face
I am using the original fins up front which are 5 I think ..
i put 2 x5 in the rear to start ..but just to much fin ...
now running 3 carbon FCS ..real drivey ...if there is such a word.the hokua s are pretty wide in the tail ,the sunova looks narrower ..
so you will have less lift .so won't need as bigger fin.you really have to change sizes to see what fits each board, as they will be all different .
The raptor howevery will stay a quad for ever ..its like riding a cat on Acid ...it doesn't sit still.
I am glad I kept the larger 9.6 Hokua its a great board for big waves ..and that rocker is a must for the free falls ...where as my 9.5 mana was a nose diver
cantsupenough ..if its barrelling i would take the higher rocker board ...or take both to be sure . never surfed there ...depends how quick the wave is .
you might need the extra speed ..then it would be the flatter rocker board .???and depends how vertical you want to get.
i think 4 fins are good......if on a really steep face you have two fins in the water.......whereas with a thruster you have a bit of this ....and a bit of that
With my 6'5" which is kind of smaller Raptor, mainly on back side I can afford to hang deeply some steep face or getting closer or nearly in with little knubtsers
Was on Quad before , I won't believe this kind of 5 fins effect before I try it. I get that board a lot more confident now. 
Interesting board kami ...very short.
what do you mean when you say
I get the board more confident ??
Its better with five fins ? or your surfing good on it now with the five fins rather than 4. .?
me no savee.
I totally agree with Stevo, his description is exactly my experience with thruster v quad on an 8.10 WP carbon i had at the time.Now on the 8.10 speed and like the sunova 83s as thruster but have really changed the handling by trying c drives.I can def say fins do make a difference to your board.CSE i think you are on the right track by trying different fins in the same session.It will take a lot of the guess work out of it.
Select to expand quoteTardy said..
Interesting board kami ...very short.
what do you mean when you say
I get the board more confident ??
Its better with five fins ? or your surfing good on it now with the five fins rather than 4. .?
me no savee.
Hello, yes this board is a minimum volume to my weight but once you get use to this narrow space of confort, it's so good to take off earlier but ride (almost) as a normal surfboard.
I mean more reliable. Before I ride this board with quatro made of TC red line at front and rear quad GX-Q. That combo of Quad was loose and drivey but since I rode this same board as a thruster I found it better in hollow wave ( 3 or 4 ') so I tried the thruster combo with Nubster and I find this combo of 5 fins with all advantages from both Thruster and Quad
As said by Lucyloo "i think you are on the right track by trying different fins in the same session.It will take a lot of the guess work out of it." As you can watch on the picture on my board up here, there is many fin plugs to try different fins position too.
Many thanks Cobra to say something serious once upon the time 
Select to expand quotecantSUPenough said..obijohn said..cantSUPenough said..
I have to confess that fins are a complete mystery to me. Maybe the only way I will understand the difference is to constantly experiment in the same conditions with different configurations. For example, my Flow is set up with the Sunova supplied quads. What difference would I experience if it had the thruster setup instead? There were times when I struggled to get the speed and drive I wanted. But is that my technique, the wave shape/power at that moment, or the fins? If you slide out in a bottom turn then I can imagine that fins would make a difference, but how else do you know you have the wrong fins?
cantSUPenough: I have done a ton of experimenting with my 8'7" Flow like yours. All different sizes in all kinds of different combinations. When I tried the quad setup that comes with the board (5.125" fronts and 4.75" rears) it was too much fin area for me (75 kilos). I spent quite a bit of time experimenting with different thruster combinations, and then went back to playing with quad setups which make sense on that board because of the widish tail. I went down as small as 4" fronts and 3.5" rears, and the board was super loose but I lost too much drive. For now I have settled on 4.5" fronts and 3.5" rears, and it is working great for me. I have a theory that one reason a lot of people feel that quads are stiffer than thrusters, especially with SUPs, is that they are running rear fins that are too large. I have read about others like myself who experimented with very small rear quad fins, and found the best of both the drive of a quad and the tight turning of a thruster. Maybe start by playing with that idea.
Thanks for your comments (and sorry for hijacking Tardy's thread ). You said "way too much fin area" - how did you know? Was it too stiff to turn? To me the combination of speed, wave-shape, and especially back-foot location makes such a huge difference that I am not sure how you know what the contribution is of the fins.
For me, "way too much fin area" is when I have trouble bringing my bottom turns around with a tight hook back up the face, or getting an easy tight 180 reversal on roundhouses when I know that other fins given the same input would give me these results. I want to feel some resistance so that when I press hard it creates drive, but not so much resistance that I cannot place the board wherever I want on the wave face at will.
Like you said, the perfect fin setup will vary with different waves, so you were wondering what to take on your trip. I have gotten in the habit of packing a few fin sets, both quads and thrusters, with me when I travel. Even with rental boards, I often swap out fins to fit the conditions or what I want the board to do. I would never travel without them now (remember to pack the fin key).
The other thing about changing fin set up from quad to Tri and different size and flex of fins is that you learn something new about the how the board works in terms of rocker, tail width, tail kick, bottom shape for speed, drive etc. With different set ups you might get more rail in the turn or a snappier top turn off the tail or slower/faster on the face. I experiment a lot with fins for wavesailing and with windsurfing you get a lot of feedback as you are going so much faster and loading up the rail and fins much more in bottom turns driving power down through the rig. I experiment with my SUP fins in the same session and make notes in www.sessionlogs.com so I can refer back to my thoughts later to see if I still feel that way about the set up and fins. Mostly my first impressions are correct so I have started to build some insights into what I want from the board in the conditions that I ride with style of riding I like to do. The biggest problem is getting to try different fins before buying. I took a punt on the FCS Nexus H-3 as scored some second hand and very happy with them but they get mixed reviews in surfing reviews.
To my opinion "way too much fin area" can be when the size of fin is not in adequation with the surfer weight and the speed of wave you are surfing. So I agree with you Obijohn.
My two cents add is to say that the position made of distance from the tail or rail, cant and toe of the fin can be more important that the size of the fin itself.
As I use to design my board for many years now and since the 80' I have experimented fin position on twin fin and quatro first and later the first thrusters I made . So there is what i call a "magic triangle " when fins are in good position. This is this magic triangle or magic square that make the board working well. So any good shaper think about that fin positions in first, that mean is to follow his advice about size dimensions in relation with Super's weight choosing the right board for you in its models range.
For example I draw my new board from keeping and adjusting fin placement as the main parameters of the green board I made 4 years ago showed on picture.
Select to expand quoteStev0 said..
The other thing about changing fin set up from quad to Tri and different size and flex of fins is that you learn something new about the how the board works in terms of rocker, tail width, tail kick, bottom shape for speed, drive etc. With different set ups you might get more rail in the turn or a snappier top turn off the tail or slower/faster on the face. I experiment a lot with fins for wavesailing and with windsurfing you get a lot of feedback as you are going so much faster and loading up the rail and fins much more in bottom turns driving power down through the rig. I experiment with my SUP fins in the same session and make notes in www.sessionlogs.com so I can refer back to my thoughts later to see if I still feel that way about the set up and fins. Mostly my first impressions are correct so I have started to build some insights into what I want from the board in the conditions that I ride with style of riding I like to do. The biggest problem is getting to try different fins before buying. I took a punt on the FCS Nexus H-3 as scored some second hand and very happy with them but they get mixed reviews in surfing reviews.
Good comments ...what about fibreglass vs. carbon ,as far as flex goes ...to me carbon is alot more rigid .but you can get good power .
because fins are so short on SUPS ...DO you think the different composites make a different s ...Im using surfboard fcs 3 carbons on the rear ,naish fibre glass on the front .I really think a new set of fins could change the feel again ,having all been made of the same material .
i hate been over fined ,it makes it to difficult to turn at a drop of a hat ..I think I should make notes like you ..good idea .
All I know now, is to take all fins to the beach .
its a bit like going windsurfing and taking one sail.and 1 x fin ,or one board ..doesn't happen.thats a hole new thread.... 
Where I normally surf it is tricky to experiment with different fins (a long way back to the car) but this summer I will have longer periods at a beach and should be able to do some side-by-side comparisons.
Yesterday I took off on some bigger waves. sailed down the wave, started the bottom turn, but often I struggled to get back up the wave as quickly as I had hoped. I was naturally going much faster than normal so it is hard to say whether the quads on the Flow were now making it more difficult to turn (it seemed more stiff) or whether it was just me.
Seems counter intuitive to fit extra fins in big waves. I can see a quad working on a sup, tails are wider then surfboards so carving along a steep wall the two wave side fins are doing most of the work plus you have a paddle to overpower the fins if necessary. Still, seems like a lot of lift when going fast.
Interesting topic.
It's also traction ..remember when it s big the face is not alway like a lake .face .the small ripples you see on small face waves are twice as big .on big waves ..when I say 6 foot ,Im 5-11 and it was a good foot over my head ...and side wind ...also the size of the wave was increase by the wind holding the face up ..till almost vertical ...I doubt wether I'd go bigger than 3'' on the rear ...as the 5 s on the front ..it's enough fin . I was perfectly finned ..
but you right can't sup enough .more fins make it harder to turn ...every tried turning a catamaran with the centre boards down ,just as a eg..I did ..like a idiot ..I gybed it ..wow what lift off .
I always try to slow my board down before turning ...either dig the paddle in or lift the weight off your front foot .stalling if you like .
on bigger waves I stay higher up on the face ,and do more speed turns ..where as smaller waves Im always looking for the bottom hand turn to come up and smack the lip.
heres that word again cantsupenough, get vertical .
redthumb I have a few surfing mates that have guns ...they don't even have a centre fin insert ...quads only they love em on the big ones .
surfers are always changing fins ...
I have a mate who doesn't have a quad set up on his board ...he keeps his back fin loose and kicks it back on the track in the surf ..if it has
any size ....
he has **** loads of trouble kicking it the other way .ouchie..he reckons.
Select to expand quoteKami said..
With my 6'5" which is kind of smaller Raptor, mainly on back side I can afford to hang deeply some steep face or getting closer or nearly in with little knubtsers
Was on Quad before , I won't believe this kind of 5 fins effect before I try it. I get that board a lot more confident now.
Very interesting Kami, I was tempted to try the 5 fins with 2 knubsters but didnt yet.
It is true I love 5 fins setups for handling wide tailed board in more size than their natural range: it makes them less stiff than a quad, that's counter-intuitive, but it definitely works.
Select to expand quoteTardy said..
redthumb I have a few surfing mates that have guns ...they don't even have a centre fin insert ...quads only they love em on the big ones .
surfers are always changing fins ...
Yeah your right, googled it and found lots of pics of guns with mostly quad setup. Also plenty of articles and theories about why they are better. Reduced drag is the common theme but I am struggling somewhat with that idea. 4 fins with toe in has less drag then 1 large fin? Possible depending on fin size, location, toe in angle.
Up to now i thought quads where just a fashion thing, seems there is more to it...
Thanks Colas, I did know than that kind of input will interest the true technician you are
But I troll Tardy's topic too cause it is speaking inside of 4 fins in larger surf. Sorry.
Select to expand quoteRedThumb said..
Tardy said..
redthumb I have a few surfing mates that have guns ...they don't even have a centre fin insert ...quads only they love em on the big ones .
surfers are always changing fins ...
Yeah your right, googled it and found lots of pics of guns with mostly quad setup. Also plenty of articles and theories about why they are better. Reduced drag is the common theme but I am struggling somewhat with that idea. 4 fins with toe in has less drag then 1 large fin? Possible depending on fin size, location, toe in angle.
Up to now i thought quads where just a fashion thing, seems there is more to it...
Redthumb point on that on gun the right thing is about to reduce drag and gain of speed during a long carving bottom turn on the full length of the rail is to use small 4 fins combo at the rear of a long concave hull.
At opposite side a nose rider long board which is much slower than a Waimea hawaiin gun will only use a deep vertical fin as a pivot to do a drop knee turn without using its 50/50 rail and belly bottom.
So between those two extremes, just demo and demo again different fins and find some alternative set up of fins...
BTW, for some of us coming from windsurfing, I reckon that fins won't work the same in surfing without a sail. Definitely does.
All good Kami ....I'm intrigued with the five fin set up ... And interesting shapes ...
similar issues here--often a long walk, or tricky rocky painful walk out, or as in recent excellent storm surf around here, tought paddleouts, incl the occasional shutdown--then there's that i am hustling to squeeze a sesh in before work or family sched
so the concept of swapping fins during a sesh usually doesnt work for me
i do know that i prefer quads generally--i feel like my wider boards work better in steeper bigger waves--could be imagined, but they feel faster, and feel like they get better bite on a steep face i need to hold to make sections
and paddling around waiting for waves in a windy sloppy lineup feels much more stable on quads, all else equal, to me
was on my old allwave 8'11" (153 ltr) with thruster and it felt tippy as hell compared to my 8'8" airborn (120 ltr) with quads--punched a whole in the airborn last monday and stayed out to enjoy OH sesh--thing needs to dry out--so i repaired mu dinged allwave for this past weekend. i was expecting it to feel rock solid, but it felt tippy compared to the airborn---prolly gon sell the allwave now--and get off my ass to repair the airborn!
Select to expand quotecantSUPenough said..
I was naturally going much faster than normal so it is hard to say whether the quads on the Flow were now making it more difficult to turn (it seemed more stiff) or whether it was just me.
I certianly perfer my Flow as a thruster in everything but really little stuff.
As a quad it is fast but the turns are way too flat, and you end up squirting out to the shoulder and a way from the pocket. As a thruster it is much easier to surf the board more vertically, and gives more control in bigger faster waves , slowing it down just a touch so you stay in the pocket.
Select to expand quotedamo666 said..cantSUPenough said..
I was naturally going much faster than normal so it is hard to say whether the quads on the Flow were now making it more difficult to turn (it seemed more stiff) or whether it was just me.
I certianly perfer my Flow as a thruster in everything but really little stuff.
As a quad it is fast but the turns are way too flat, and you end up squirting out to the shoulder and a way from the pocket. As a thruster it is much easier to surf the board more vertically, and gives more control in bigger faster waves , slowing it down just a touch so you stay in the pocket.
See Tardy, it's not me its the fins 
Well, that certainly sounds like what I have experienced, in terms of going too far out on the shoulder on the bigger waves. I can't wait to try it as a thruster.
Select to expand quoteboundeast said..
similar issues here--often a long walk, or tricky rocky painful walk out, or as in recent excellent storm surf around here, tought paddleouts, incl the occasional shutdown--then there's that i am hustling to squeeze a sesh in before work or family sched
so the concept of swapping fins during a sesh usually doesnt work for me
i do know that i prefer quads generally--i feel like my wider boards work better in steeper bigger waves--could be imagined, but they feel faster, and feel like they get better bite on a steep face i need to hold to make sections
and paddling around waiting for waves in a windy sloppy lineup feels much more stable on quads, all else equal, to me
was on my old allwave 8'11" (153 ltr) with thruster and it felt tippy as hell compared to my 8'8" airborn (120 ltr) with quads--punched a whole in the airborn last monday and stayed out to enjoy OH sesh--thing needs to dry out--so i repaired mu dinged allwave for this past weekend. i was expecting it to feel rock solid, but it felt tippy compared to the airborn---prolly gon sell the allwave now--and get off my ass to repair the airborn!
That's an interesting comment about the stability waiting out the back...especially when comparing the 153 ltr to the 120 ltr! Board shape, corkiness, and other factors come in to play but if you weight anything like me (92 kg) then 120 ltr should always feel tippier.
Select to expand quotecantSUPenough said...damo666 said..cantSUPenough said..
I was naturally going much faster than normal so it is hard to say whether the quads on the Flow were now making it more difficult to turn (it seemed more stiff) or whether it was just me.
I certianly perfer my Flow as a thruster in everything but really little stuff.
As a quad it is fast but the turns are way too flat, and you end up squirting out to the shoulder and a way from the pocket. As a thruster it is much easier to surf the board more vertically, and gives more control in bigger faster waves , slowing it down just a touch so you stay in the pocket.
See Tardy, it's not me its the fins
Well, that certainly sounds like what I have experienced, in terms of going too far out on the shoulder on the bigger waves. I can't wait to try it as a thruster.
I knew it would be something like that.looking forward to seeing the next vid of vertical re-entres .
