The Gong Allvator SUP/Surf foil

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colas said..
The one-part fuz+mast+plate full carbon has been announced. Pre-orderable now, shipping early march 2020.
70 and 100cm lengths.
Threads on the fuz go all through, so you can screw the wings now both from the bottom and the top of the wing (by drilling holes), for extra stiffness in fuz/wing connection.
Only available with a plate, no tuttle.

This is 432 euros more than the alu fuz + mast + plate ( 599 euros vs 167 euros)


Details at www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/gong-foil-allvator-carbon-pro-mast-70-surf/

The 100cm mast is on my list.
The (no VAT) price is not bad when you consider the length and the integrated four hole plate which is super clean hydrodynamically compared my Go Foil adapter. I wonder if the Bear has been using it with the XXL pro wing? Can it be stiff enough would be my question.
At 2.6Kg I'm also wondering if it's any lighter than the aluminum setup, I'll weigh that on Sunday. The 100 is 20cm longer than my aluminum mast so won't be a straight comparison but still curious.

And herein lies the big fallacy of carbon "surf wing" masts. In order to make a sufficiently strong/stiff carbon mast it ends up being just as heavy as a sufficiently strong/stiff aluminum mast. So what's the advantage?

The Axis aluminum surf mast is known to be very stiff/strong for its intended use. Axis now offers a carbon mast alternative (preorder status like Gong). The mast is only 10% lighter than the Axis aluminum mast and still not quite as stiff as the Axis aluminum mast,....according to the Axis US distributor. I asked him directly what the advantage of carbon was, and all he could come up with is that some of the riders who got to ride the Axis prototype carbon masts felt they had more "snap" than the aluminum mast. What the heck does that mean??? The distributor admitted that he doesn't really see an overwhelming advantage of Axis carbon over Axis aluminum.

Unlike the Axis aluminum masts, the Gong aluminum mast are definitely flexy. I just rode the Gong pro XL on the Gong 80 cm mast today and it was easy to feel it flex (wobble) around in flat water chop while wing foiling, especially compared to the 65cm Gong mast. So Gong is now introducing a much stiffer carbon mast /fuselage combo. Patrice has correctly stated that stiffness/strength were the key goals instead of weight. The not so great part is that the price of those Gong carbon mast /fuselage combo's are right up there with the GoFoil carbon mast/fuselage combo.

i think both Axis and Gong have proven to me that there is no real overwhelming advantage to carbon if you can make a sufficiently stiff mast with aluminum.

I am not going to preorder a Gong carbon mast /fuselage combo for my pro XL (70 and 100 cm sure seems like an odd range). I am going to buy some Axis aluminum surf masts and a base plate. I'll have the Gong fuselage "machined out" to accept the Axis mast. (I think Patrice should have just gone after a stiff aluminum mast upgrade rather than chasing after carbon. He could have had the performance without the high cost. Just my feeble 2 cents)

Note that another option - but mostly for european users - is to find a 2nd hand Hellvator (the previous Gong foil model) 100% carbon mast, and buy the specific "adapter" alu fuz that can connect to an old Hellvator carbon mast but also the new allvator wings.

But please note that its is only the 100cm new carbon fuz+mast+plat combo that is nearly as heavy as the 65 cm alu! The mechanical stress on a 100cm mast is nothing like the ones on a 65cm mast it is like comparing apples and oranges. The weight reduction of the 70cm carbon mast compared to the 65 alu mast is very significant! The shorter alu mast set is 50% heavier than the carbon mast set!

Saying "strong/stiff carbon mast it ends up being just as heavy as a sufficiently strong/stiff aluminum mast" is thus totally false.

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RichJam said..
Only experienced the carbon vs alloy in Mtbing and to to an extent windsurfing.

Personally I have enjoyed both. Carbon I find tends to be smoother and more compliant than alloy. Less jarring.
I would have thought the stiff transfer via alloy would be a good thing foiling.

I agree with what has been said that a stiff alloy setup at a decent price point would have been optimal.

One other big downside to me of the one piece design, and the reason I found Gong in the first place, not so great for travel (doesn't fit in the "golf" bag). Decided I couldn't bring a Go Foil mast for air travel, will be same for the Gong carbon. Wonder how hard it would be to make the rear fuse extension removable?
Does anyone here travel with a one piece and what has been your experience at airline check-in?

!00cm is really more than I need but 70 is 10 too short. Certainly it would be difficult and heavy to make a 100cm mast stiff enough.

D space, interested to see the difference between the dimensions of the Axis mast and Gong at the fuse attachment point.
Could you attach a pic? My mini-mill doesn't get much love, always looking for a project.

Here's my take on carbon mast from what I have tested . The ones that are significantly lighter than the Aluminium ones are not as stiff. ( Have not seen or tested the Gong ) . The new Gofoil mast is like a piece of steel but still comes in same weight as a Alu mast. The carbon wind foil mast are another level of construction with a price point to match. Talking Aus dollars most of the new carbon mast for Sup & prone foil most roll in close to the $1,000 mark . That's a big chunk of cash for not a lot of gain but for the foil enthusiasts it's still a must have . I run both pending my choice of weapons , for prone or Sup surfing I always run the carbon but for downwind ( paddle or wing ) on the longer mast always the Alu. I want the extra stiffness and the weight is not so much an issue. For me the corrosion argument it's not a problem as I am constantly changing my rigs pulling them apart , however if you leave them together too long without good tef gel they will lock up.

Each to his own but in reality, you won't lose anything riding the way more affordable Ali mast unless it's a really soft one. My pet hate is mast flex. Another factor coming into play is the new high aspect wings with way less cm2 area , this takes alot of pressure off the mast . The old Go Foil 280 is a mast killer. As rider abilities rise they can ride much smaller/ higher aspect wings. Just like what Gong have done with the new pro range. Less is best for more speed and performance plus way less mast flex. So my advice on all of the above is to reduce the wings size you ride before you fork out the extra cash on a carbon mast , you will get far more benefit from a smaller high aspect wing than switching to a carbon mast. Once you have the new higher aspect wings dialed then pull the trigger on a carbon mast .IMHO

Really like the look of the new range. Do you know if the zumas are the same volume as before? I would love to go shorter than my current 6 9 zuma but keep a high volume. The 5 10 flint looks very interesting as well.

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Fishdude said..
Hey Colas, it's nice to see the stiffer carbon mast option now. I was wondering if you have any images about the wing connection point improvements? I'm not clear what they are doing.

I ended up bonding my XXL wing to a dedicated fusalge with hot glue and the 2 bolts for a zero movement fit.

I came up with a car park fix for that a couple of days ago...it seems to work well.

I took the colour swatch from my wind wing (ripstop nylon stuff), about 6" long by 2", folded it over the end of the fuse and smacked the wing on with a rubber mallet. I sprayed with Teflon first. Screws were poked through the nylon and tightened.

Perfect.

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colas said..

Fishdude said..
I was wondering if you have any images about the wing connection point improvements?

No images, but the connection is the same, just the screw holes go through the fuz, so you can screw also from the other side (the top of the wing), but you will have to drill holes in the wing for that.

If your connection is loose, I would just glue some mylar film (or other rigid thin material, such as radiography film) to the inside of the wing hole. Or just add thin layers of epoxy+microspheres

Gottha... Simple and good I'll be doing this for sure. Bottom bolts carry the load then a top screw to give it that extra security. I Just have to make sure the bolts don't touch each other inside the threads.

I used mylar on my other fuselage for the smaller wings works good enough. But the hot glue was just a better very solid connection. I just leave it attached and only remove the bolts at the end of the day. When it comes time to take it apart just need a couple of heat lamps.