I couldn't resist after all the hype on this foil so bit the bullet & ordered a 980 full carbon setup....sounds too good to be true, so will soon find out for myself.
I'd say Piros is bang on about the 980 having the lift of the 1300 LOL. Only a few sessions in but I'd say the 1210 has the lift of the 1600 LOL but significantly better top end and seems to turn really well. More sensitive to input but does more if you tell it what to do. Super impressed.
I've heard talk that Takuma recommend a wedge / sim at the baseplate to make it run optimally? Heard the same from Eric on progression Project podcast who is now riding a Kumar. Anyone found this to be true?
Select to expand quoteMwstard said..
I'd say Piros is bang on about the 980 having the lift of the 1300 LOL. Only a few sessions in but I'd say the 1210 has the lift of the 1600 LOL but significantly better top end and seems to turn really well. More sensitive to input but does more if you tell it what to do. Super impressed.
How does the 980 pump compared to the 1300?
Select to expand quotePiros said..
Hopefully be able to answer all the questions in a day or so , the entire Gold Coast shipment seems to be stuck on the dock last 1.5 weeks . I have been borrowing my mates 980 plus been towing on it with him. Both of us already have the carbon mast for our LOL's so the 980 goes straight on. I have a 980 & 1210 + 80 Ali mast on order ( don't know if ali fuse is longer but doubt it ). Re comparison of the 980 to the uni 170 pretty similar in pump but the 980 surfs more like the Uni 150 but still carries a heavier rider , just my opinion don't take it's as gospel.
So been hearing whispers about the Kujira needs shim at the mast to the board and now Takuma are producing the shims. According to Cyril " The angle at the board is better with a shim . You can find a more active angle. " I thought is was fine flat , I can't pump the 980 as well as the 1300 but other riders who were the same that have shimmed the 980 are now pumping way better , I let you know as soon as I get mine.
The pic is the Takuma shim , just to be clear they are shimming the mast angle to the board , not the wings themselves. I'd probably call it a wedge to avoid the confusion.
Hi Piros
If we run the 980 with the Ali mast will it still benefit from the 'wedge', and if so I presume it would be ok to mock up our own wedges by cutting up plastic sheets etc?
Just use washers for now to find out shim height , it will be somewhere around 4 to 8mm but will vary on all boards due to tail rocker . But yes it definitely improves performance shimmed . I've used washers for years on carbon and Ali mast it's fine , just use big ones .
After couple of days testing this is how I'm riding the 980 & 1210 . Ended up 7mm shim 980 , 3mm 1210 , it had stupid lift with the 7mm wedge . Need a smaller tail for 1210 as well , it's 930 wide and feels big . It's a huge jump from the 980 to the 1210 like going from the 1300 to 1600 LOL bit of a handful at first but incredible glide and pump . Conditions were really bad so not too much hard carving turns going on so school is still out if the 1210 is still a surf wing . The turned up wings tips are stupid sharp , I'm definitely dulling the tips .
Just out of curiosity, are you shimming the front or the back of the plate?
What's this achieving?
Cheers
Progression project is shimming in the back of the baseplate. The carbon mast is like the GoFoil mast. Fuse and mast all one piece.
I'm guessing it is achieving something like this.
Select to expand quotePiros said..
After couple of days testing this is how I'm riding the 980 & 1210 . Ended up 7mm shim 980 , 3mm 1210 , it had stupid lift with the 7mm wedge . Need a smaller tail for 1210 as well , it's 930 wide and feels big . It's a huge jump from the 980 to the 1210 like going from the 1300 to 1600 LOL bit of a handful at first but incredible glide and pump . Conditions were really bad so not too much hard carving turns going on so school is still out if the 1210 is still a surf wing . The turned up wings tips are stupid sharp , I'm definitely dulling the tips .
First - THANKS for the info - much appreciated!!!!!!!!!!
Second - WOW, 7mm is huge. I found shimming the tail stab of the GoFoils to give more lift would give a noticeable reduction in speed, even just with 1 or 2mm. Does shimming the mast plate by 7mm affect it's speed, or doesn't it work like that if you are effectively changing the angle of the whole foil setup?
Now the big question is : is it a mistake from Takuma ?? why not doing the right angle right away ??
I hate having shiming or doing too many tries to make my set up work...
Select to expand quoteHdip said..
Progression project is shimming in the back of the baseplate. The carbon mast is like the GoFoil mast. Fuse and mast all one piece.
I'm guessing it is achieving something like this.
Old mate is saying shimming the base plate does nothing other than making the board travel more nose up or down.It doesn't change front foot pressure? This seems at odds with others experience?
I'm shimming the back of the mast plate and it completely changes the angle of attack ( which is really flat ) of the front wing , you feel it instantly, way more pump and glide , doesn't slow it down at all I tested this endlessly all weekend with a 3 hour session today coming in and changing set ups 6 times . No it does not alter the way the board , wedging at the front probably would . ( I'm talking prones not Sups ) Is it a mistake byTakuma , no idea but it's a pretty simple fix if it is .
Select to expand quotekobo said..Hdip said..
Progression project is shimming in the back of the baseplate. The carbon mast is like the GoFoil mast. Fuse and mast all one piece.
I'm guessing it is achieving something like this.
Old mate is saying shimming the base plate does nothing other than making the board travel more nose up or down.It doesn't change front foot pressure? This seems at odds with others experience?
Hmmm, I agree totally with old mate, shimming the base plate may make a board paddle easier (or harder depending on the angle) and may aid initial lift off but it is not really going to make any difference to speed or foot pressure once up an foiling it will simply make the board ride nose up or down.
It is not doing anything to change the relationship or angles of front wing, rear wing, mast or fuse when they are the only thing in the water.
Boards with a lot of tail rocker paddle like pigs unless the rear of the base plate is shimmed at the rear.
I can see how the angle of the Wing/fuse may be wrong in relationship to the base plate and make it harder to get up initially, which shimming the back of the baseplate may fix.
However I cannot for the life of me see how it could make a difference once the board is out of the water.
Select to expand quotePiros said..
I'm shimming the back of the mast plate and it completely changes the angle of attack ( which is really flat ) of the front wing , you feel it instantly, way more pump and glide , doesn't slow it down at all I tested this endlessly all weekend with a 3 hour session today coming in and changing set ups 6 times . No it does not alter the way the board , wedging at the front probably would . ( I'm talking prones not Sups ) Is it a mistake byTakuma , no idea but it's a pretty simple fix if it is .
Are we talking about flat (neutral) fin box ?
One of my friend will get his Kujira 980 tomorow with a board I made (fin box flat area), so I would like to give him the good information about shimming his base plate.
Real good info here piros. Have you put the 1300 on the carbon mast to see if it requires the same change in angle?
maybe testing this foil in the barrel at teahupoo wasn't the best idea for the every man.
I'm on a 4-6 prone flat at the box area ( it's neutral) , the board still rides flat , I'm not riding nose down . It effectively changes the angle of attack. Love the comments that it won't work when they haven't ridden it . It's a very narrow cord wing , I would'nt be doing this on the 1300.
Select to expand quotetightlines said..
I can see how the angle of the Wing/fuse may be wrong in relationship to the base plate and make it harder to get up initially, which shimming the back of the baseplate may fix.
However I cannot for the life of me see how it could make a difference once the board is out of the water.
Interesting.....I have fanatic prone board with Armstrong and It feels great.Borrowed a mates Amos board and it was nose down.So I slid the foil all the way forward but still felt the same.Then I just stood further back and started adjusting my weight/stance to get the feel and balance I like.
My theory is both old mate and Piros are right, Some boards have more tail rocker than others, so you stand in different positions until you feel comfortable and then get used to it. Change board you either have to change where you stand (which humans don't like change) or wedge baseplate, slide mast in tracks, change tails and shims until it feels what your expecting and used too. Ever jumped on someone else's setup and gone **** that's front foot heavy or nosediving, and they say something similar about your setup ie "how do you ride that ". Will be interesting to see if others experience the same with the Kujira (let us know if it's a dud toppleover haha)
Check out the difference in rocker on the boards in this pic - it looks like the board with the Axis foil has way more than the others.
Select to expand quotekobo said..
True, and did you find any probs with Armstrong on Amos ?
No mate, my Amos felt spot on with the 1550 but the 1250 had something weird going on.
The Amos with the Armstrong 1050 felt really nose down compared to fanatic, it's like Piros said the fanatic has more tail rocker, as shown in that pic of yours too.
Also the boxes in the fanatic are 70mm further forward from the rear of the board compared to the Amos ,so that would also make a difference too.
Agree all boards are different so are the riders , my mate has the 980 on his 3-4 and pumps around like a mofo no wedge . I surfed with Adam Bennetts , Mr Bennetts on insta www.instagram.com/tv/CIREvhRlJ7R/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link on Saturday and he asked if I have shimmed the 980 yet which I hadn't . He said he rode on his 4-4 JS with one shim came in and double shimmed it and loved it . He has ben chatting with the Hawaiin crew they they all are on around 8mm shimm. He also said other than his new Uni 150 Viper proto , the 980 is one of the fastest foils he has ridden.
Re the shim the 980 still works and rides without the shim , it just becomes apx 15 to 20% easier to pump when you shim it. When we tow with it we don't shim it.
Had a ride on the uni hyper 150 the other day, super efficient , fast and pumps easy especially for a small foil. Not sure about the turning, definitely not as easy as 1050 army, but I think you could learn to throw it around as proved by Adam Bennetts. It's very lightweight but it's also lightly built, you can flex the tips on the foil it's so thin. Don't know how durable it would be.
Spoiler alert, I heard there is a new Takuma even way better than Kujira coming up, I don't know if it is only prototype, but looks like in New Caledonia there is a lot of R&D going on. Anybody knows about it ??
Select to expand quotefrenchfoiler said..
Spoiler alert, I heard there is a new Takuma even way better than Kujira coming up, I don't know if it is only prototype, but looks like in New Caledonia there is a lot of R&D going on. Anybody knows about it ??
This reminds me of when the GL,s were released & someone in the know was already hinting about the NL series - pretty amazing how fast things are moving atm.
OK sorry to do this to everyone who is out there shimming the mast to 7mm on the Kujira 980 . I rode it today in clean shoulder high waves at Kirra with alot of wave energy . First wave was such a handful I was all over the shop , so different to the 1ft mush I did all the testing in. It was still a 500m ride but it wasn't pretty , just so much lift and when I rolled off the back to link the one behind I was skating on the surface , an incredible amount of carry and almost didn't need to pump but I was in survival mode riding at almost full mast the whole wave. I went in and changed the shim to the Takuma production rubber shim ( apx 2mm to 3mm I'm guessing 1-degree angle) and bumped the mast back . So much better but still found I was getting too much lift from the Takuma 210 tail when I was going top to bottom on the wave you could feel the tail break the surface.
Came in again and put on my cut down 13.5" flat Uni tail which I use on my 1300 LOL and boom I was away it felt unreal so much more control and lost no pump. So for me this is the combo . I'm still settling into the 980 and blown away by the way this small wing carries my 88kg. Not saying yet it's the best wing I've ridden but for it's size it's pretty damn amazing. Uni , Signature tails screw straight onto the Takuma and I'm going to order a Kane de Wilde custom 13.5". I'm not going to attempt to chop shop the Takuma 210 tail just too much going with the lumps and bumps plus the tips I would wreck it , I'll keep it as is for smaller days. Great swell all weekend so plenty more testing to come.
Does my theory sound correct to you then Piros? They tuned the kujira for Matahi to ride Teahupoo, or the like. Big fast reef waves. When we try to use it in normal everyman conditions then it needs a baseplate shim for more lift/glide in weak waves since the speed is much slower?
