Foil Sup DW

What do you think of the new trend from the Maui crew Riggs/Kalama/Tomo using super long/skinny gun type board ? Looks like it is from 7'6 to 7'10.

I asked Jeremy, he said, those boards were designed for prone dw, but everybody realized it is super eassy to get up with the paddle and it doesn't bother much flying.

www.instagram.com/p/Cb5ywxPAwgn/

They do look long and are prone focused. Somewhere between the super short boards and these would suit most people with a paddle.

Like the board in this video www.instagram.com/reel/CcA34BZAojO/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

I agree with all comments above - the longer boards do compromise you a bit once in the air, no doubt about it. I tried a 7ft x 25" 115L that weighed 6.6kg - the swing weight was manageable, but not optimal - mast placement is pretty critical. Conversely it did give more glide although the rocker rails etc also play a huge role.

As with most of these things your local conditions, rider physique and skills will determine whats right for you.

But I think the off-shoot of Kalama's longer boards is that we'll see boards that will allow many more to get into downwinding as it solves a large part of the hurdle of getting on foil. Countering that, is that for the longer boards to work, once on foil, they will have to be extremely light which adds cost or durability.

Combined with the much more efficient foils now available, the longer boards are making Downwind SUP-foil so much more accessible which is pretty cool.

Long and skinny.

A few creations back I made a creature that looks a little like Kalamas baracuda. Main idea was to copy the prone-style board tail end and total displacement hull. Board was shaped for "in-fjord" downwind runs. 100% wind swell. So went quite short.
Was hit by a brain-disease this winter (encephalitis) so can't remember where all
my boards are. So can't see exact dimensions.
But remember it was more than stable, and I wanted to go thinner, little longer and more nose-rocker for next try on the design concept. Also- the footstrap was mainly used for take-off. Once flying, my front foot would be around 15-20cm behind strap.
Take-offs were incredible smooth. And also no problem to catch rails on steep bumbs. The ridge at the nose section was quickly shaved off as it didnt do anything good.

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danish said..
A few creations back I made a creature that looks a little like Kalamas baracuda. Main idea was to copy the prone-style board tail end and total displacement hull. Board was shaped for "in-fjord" downwind runs. 100% wind swell. So went quite short.
Was hit by a brain-disease this winter (encephalitis) so can't remember where all
my boards are. So can't see exact dimensions.
But remember it was more than stable, and I wanted to go thinner, little longer and more nose-rocker for next try on the design concept. Also- the footstrap was mainly used for take-off. Once flying, my front foot would be around 15-20cm behind strap.
Take-offs were incredible smooth. And also no problem to catch rails on steep bumbs. The ridge at the nose section was quickly shaved off as it didnt do anything good.

I remember that build you posted, i was veey interested in it because i thought it would be the perfect low wind wingfoil board.
Truly innovative,very much ahead of anybody else.

Hope you get better Danish!.

Huge fan of the longer and narrower boards. At 6'2" and 90-92kg (200+lbs), DW is a mission. IT's all about the get up. These longer boards are that 5% before the camel breaks its back (my back ).

Here's my new prototype-2 DW board I've been tweaking with James from Konrad. Weighs about 6.5kg, 6'6" x 26" at 130ltrs. Super easy to paddle up. I think going forwards I might go 6'10" x 24". Really don't mid the length.












I was 99% sold on the Kalama, but just wanted more volume and more width. 23.5" is gnarly for me. I had this concept in Shape 3DX for years but never moved forwards, then I saw Dave's boards and was blown away with the similarities. My concept was a Starboard ACE raceboard on the bottom and a square deck on top for stability. No tail kick but a pin tail so you can still pump it - and it works amazing.
I've since heard DK is doing some more real world sizes which will definitely help crew get out there. The Barracuda looks like a weapon, not sure I'm ready for that narrow .

It is soo good seeing all the DW shapes coming out. Once you get used to the DW board, it is hard to go back to your other board, getting waves/swells super early is awesome and you simply can not beat the feeling of pure Downwind - The apex of Foiling for sure.

Longer board won't be an issue if the board is light otherwise the swing weight will be a problem.

The good thing about those design that DK is testing is to make DW easier which is great.

Now the question is for riders who can already take off with short board (around 6'0), would it be an advaantag going super long ? Maybe it would help getting up faster on smaller foil.

Maybe the something in between ? My guess is that the dw board size will be longer than what it is right now.

My new board, coming up soon is 6'0 x 21 - 89L, my current board is 5'7 x 22.5 - 90L

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PeterP said..
The longer boards and new hull shapes will definitely make DW easier.

But there is one other aspect which is not spoken about too often and that is the AOA of the foil in relation to the rocker of the board. I've found that low or negative angle of attack, whereby foil is pointing down away from the board is a paddle-up killer as it sucks board into the water before it releases. Positive AOA is also not great as you are pushing water down and around the foil before it starts generating lift. Both scenarios makes board feel like it is stuck in mud.

When you are in waves, the significant push from the wave overcomes this issue ,to a point where you rarely notice it, but when you are on the limit of the margins for getting up on flat bumps, it can make, or break your day.

My formula is to put a level on the front foil and try shim mast until it is level with bottom of board in the mast area - but I'm not sure if anyone has better ideas on how to optimise this?

You want to get the mast plate or the fuselage to be parallel with the deck of the board. The majority of foils have both mast plate and fuse parallel to each other. If you have a foil with shims or angles between mast and fuse then go for getting the fuse parallel to the board deck.
Sit your foil setup on a level surface and put packers under the tail until you get the fuse level with the ground or put a spirit level on the mast plate and get it level.
Sit your board on top of the foil ( will need a helper) put a spirit level on the deck of the board and lift it up or down until it is level. You can attach the front or rear bolts if you know which way the gap will be.Measure the gap at the rear or front of mast plate and board.That is the thickness of the wedge you need.
I remember a post where JB found it easier to start with a foil that pointed upwards, so I would lean toward that direction if unsure as having the foil point down will be a killer for sure.

The boxes on that blue board are really far forward, and I am going to go further forward again (front of the tracks is about 72cm from the tail).
It is also 6'6". I personally would not go any shorter than 6'6". I am thinking actually of going longer (not Barracuda 7'8") and maybe a tad narrower, 25" or 25.5".

Shimming the base plate is really effective, but it will put you in a nose down flight once up. Whilst down it theoretically increases your AoA in relation the water surface.

Weight is a big deal for sure. I'm envisaging hollow boards and dug outs down the track, sub 5kg & 7' long board at 22-24" wide still 130 virtual ltrs. Perfect for us larger humans.

JB

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Naish 7footer Prone board. It's been around a couple seasons. I've been wanting to try one on a DW but they are hard to find.

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JB said..
The boxes on that blue board are really far forward, and I am going to go further forward again (front of the tracks is about 72cm from the tail).
It is also 6'6". I personally would not go any shorter than 6'6". I am thinking actually of going longer (not Barracuda 7'8") and maybe a tad narrower, 25" or 25.5".

Shimming the base plate is really effective, but it will put you in a nose down flight once up. Whilst down it theoretically increases your AoA in relation the water surface.

Weight is a big deal for sure. I'm envisaging hollow boards and dug outs down the track, sub 5kg & 7' long board at 22-24" wide still 130 virtual ltrs. Perfect for us larger humans.

JB

Lightening the nose to the max is something i think we will see.
I sometimes wonder if an inflatable nose section would prove an advantage.

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kobo said..

PeterP said..
The longer boards and new hull shapes will definitely make DW easier.

But there is one other aspect which is not spoken about too often and that is the AOA of the foil in relation to the rocker of the board. I've found that low or negative angle of attack, whereby foil is pointing down away from the board is a paddle-up killer as it sucks board into the water before it releases. Positive AOA is also not great as you are pushing water down and around the foil before it starts generating lift. Both scenarios makes board feel like it is stuck in mud.

When you are in waves, the significant push from the wave overcomes this issue ,to a point where you rarely notice it, but when you are on the limit of the margins for getting up on flat bumps, it can make, or break your day.

My formula is to put a level on the front foil and try shim mast until it is level with bottom of board in the mast area - but I'm not sure if anyone has better ideas on how to optimise this?

You want to get the mast plate or the fuselage to be parallel with the deck of the board. The majority of foils have both mast plate and fuse parallel to each other. If you have a foil with shims or angles between mast and fuse then go for getting the fuse parallel to the board deck.
Sit your foil setup on a level surface and put packers under the tail until you get the fuse level with the ground or put a spirit level on the mast plate and get it level.
Sit your board on top of the foil ( will need a helper) put a spirit level on the deck of the board and lift it up or down until it is level. You can attach the front or rear bolts if you know which way the gap will be.Measure the gap at the rear or front of mast plate and board.That is the thickness of the wedge you need.
I remember a post where JB found it easier to start with a foil that pointed upwards, so I would lean toward that direction if unsure as having the foil point down will be a killer for sure.

Select to expand quote

kobo said..

PeterP said..
The longer boards and new hull shapes will definitely make DW easier.

But there is one other aspect which is not spoken about too often and that is the AOA of the foil in relation to the rocker of the board. I've found that low or negative angle of attack, whereby foil is pointing down away from the board is a paddle-up killer as it sucks board into the water before it releases. Positive AOA is also not great as you are pushing water down and around the foil before it starts generating lift. Both scenarios makes board feel like it is stuck in mud.

When you are in waves, the significant push from the wave overcomes this issue ,to a point where you rarely notice it, but when you are on the limit of the margins for getting up on flat bumps, it can make, or break your day.

My formula is to put a level on the front foil and try shim mast until it is level with bottom of board in the mast area - but I'm not sure if anyone has better ideas on how to optimise this?

You want to get the mast plate or the fuselage to be parallel with the deck of the board. The majority of foils have both mast plate and fuse parallel to each other. If you have a foil with shims or angles between mast and fuse then go for getting the fuse parallel to the board deck.
Sit your foil setup on a level surface and put packers under the tail until you get the fuse level with the ground or put a spirit level on the mast plate and get it level.
Sit your board on top of the foil ( will need a helper) put a spirit level on the deck of the board and lift it up or down until it is level. You can attach the front or rear bolts if you know which way the gap will be.Measure the gap at the rear or front of mast plate and board.That is the thickness of the wedge you need.
I remember a post where JB found it easier to start with a foil that pointed upwards, so I would lean toward that direction if unsure as having the foil point down will be a killer for sure.

I like this method, but what it doesnt take into account is volume/surface distribution. For your
method to work, the volume needs to be evenly spread out over the center/standing position?

Select to expand quote

danish said..

kobo said..

PeterP said..
The longer boards and new hull shapes will definitely make DW easier.

But there is one other aspect which is not spoken about too often and that is the AOA of the foil in relation to the rocker of the board. I've found that low or negative angle of attack, whereby foil is pointing down away from the board is a paddle-up killer as it sucks board into the water before it releases. Positive AOA is also not great as you are pushing water down and around the foil before it starts generating lift. Both scenarios makes board feel like it is stuck in mud.

When you are in waves, the significant push from the wave overcomes this issue ,to a point where you rarely notice it, but when you are on the limit of the margins for getting up on flat bumps, it can make, or break your day.

My formula is to put a level on the front foil and try shim mast until it is level with bottom of board in the mast area - but I'm not sure if anyone has better ideas on how to optimise this?

You want to get the mast plate or the fuselage to be parallel with the deck of the board. The majority of foils have both mast plate and fuse parallel to each other. If you have a foil with shims or angles between mast and fuse then go for getting the fuse parallel to the board deck.
Sit your foil setup on a level surface and put packers under the tail until you get the fuse level with the ground or put a spirit level on the mast plate and get it level.
Sit your board on top of the foil ( will need a helper) put a spirit level on the deck of the board and lift it up or down until it is level. You can attach the front or rear bolts if you know which way the gap will be.Measure the gap at the rear or front of mast plate and board.That is the thickness of the wedge you need.
I remember a post where JB found it easier to start with a foil that pointed upwards, so I would lean toward that direction if unsure as having the foil point down will be a killer for sure.

kobo said..

PeterP said..
The longer boards and new hull shapes will definitely make DW easier.

But there is one other aspect which is not spoken about too often and that is the AOA of the foil in relation to the rocker of the board. I've found that low or negative angle of attack, whereby foil is pointing down away from the board is a paddle-up killer as it sucks board into the water before it releases. Positive AOA is also not great as you are pushing water down and around the foil before it starts generating lift. Both scenarios makes board feel like it is stuck in mud.

When you are in waves, the significant push from the wave overcomes this issue ,to a point where you rarely notice it, but when you are on the limit of the margins for getting up on flat bumps, it can make, or break your day.

My formula is to put a level on the front foil and try shim mast until it is level with bottom of board in the mast area - but I'm not sure if anyone has better ideas on how to optimise this?

You want to get the mast plate or the fuselage to be parallel with the deck of the board. The majority of foils have both mast plate and fuse parallel to each other. If you have a foil with shims or angles between mast and fuse then go for getting the fuse parallel to the board deck.
Sit your foil setup on a level surface and put packers under the tail until you get the fuse level with the ground or put a spirit level on the mast plate and get it level.
Sit your board on top of the foil ( will need a helper) put a spirit level on the deck of the board and lift it up or down until it is level. You can attach the front or rear bolts if you know which way the gap will be.Measure the gap at the rear or front of mast plate and board.That is the thickness of the wedge you need.
I remember a post where JB found it easier to start with a foil that pointed upwards, so I would lean toward that direction if unsure as having the foil point down will be a killer for sure.

I like this method, but what it doesnt take into account is volume/surface distribution. For your
method to work, the volume needs to be evenly spread out over the center/standing position?

True, I just average it out, but it gives you a good indication if it's way out of whack and you need a wedge.

"1300 run was sitting until km #12"

Say whaaat!