My apologies first up if it seems like this has been covered but it feels like there is a massive shortfall of info around.....
I really wanted to be able to find all this info myself without annoying you helpful folks on the forums but Google has beaten me and I can't seem to find any extensive reviews that helps people inch towards the "which 2018 SUP foil for me" decision.
Have seen some good personal reviews on here by a man called "Piros" and some extensive input from "Colas" - thanks gents.
- Piros seemed to be leaning towards the Naish Thrust if I read correctly but was awaiting to trial the Slinshot Hoverglide SUP foil.
- Colas seems to have infinite input into foil placement/use etc (but is bound somewhat to the French GongSup brand I believe).
......One of the quotes in a Colas thread was "Curved foils are so 2017".....which was quite a chuckle...
......But got me also thinking "Is flat where it's at" (now)?
Seems to be a lot of places selling but all "copy and pasting" from the seller's website (Globally)
i.e. There are no personal expreiences being provided or saying (something like): "we liked/disliked this because....." or "this suited 'this' type of person/condition" etc....especially outlets selling multiple foil brands
I was edging towards a Naish, and I do hope to get on one behind a boat shortly, but was baffled (shocked!?) to read that Naish recommends their Thrust foil is taken apart and washed after EVERY use. For $1600-$1700 this seems like a lot of hassle and had me looking into the "Cheap China Foils" thread. I do think though it is worth, at this stage, still going with the big boys;
A) For easier/safer learing and progression
B) Support if there is an issue - or just some hands on direction
C) Less chance of there actually being an issue in the first place
D) Re-sale value down the track
NOTE: One gent on the forums had gotten a China brand foil and has been rapped with it. Says it's just like the Takuma foil.....but I don't think he was a foil "virgin"......and longevity of craftsmanship too soon to tell.....
I am most curious about the Slingshot Hoverglide but I can't find any decent reviews. Like the $$$ and the learner mast options
HAS ANYONE TRIED/BEEN USING THESE?
Some are probabl.y more easily transferable too (i.e Have capacity to attach different wing OR versatile enough without having to buy additional wings)
I think I agree with most experienced foil users that going the larger wing offered (eg Large in Naish Thrust or H4 in the Slingshot Hoverglide) is a better option....harder to paddle generally, but much easier to learn (slower speed required to get foil up and, then, more stable once up).....this is all based from online information....
Apologies to raise so many things in the one post i.e.
- Lack or retailers "meaningful" reviews
- Slingshot Hover Glide - reviews/experiences?
- Hoverglide vs Naish Thrust (or other worthy contenders)
- Removing foil after every session to avoid corrosion....seriously!?
- The China Knock off
- Large vs Smaller wing (for newbies)
- Curved vs Flat foils "Curved foils are so 2017"......ha!
- Versatility of use (SUP - Prone - Kite)
By the way, I am 6"1, 73kg (stringbean), very competent surfer/SUP'er/Kiter and have a Starboard Hypernut 7"8 (116L) retro-fit almost ready. Like many new to SUP foil, I plan to use on small crappy days when no people are out and/or unsurfed spots. SUP foil for now, and maybe prone later....
If you made it to here; 10 points! I can imagine there are maybe others wandering some of these thing so I hope this helps more than just me. Maybe you can help with just one or a few points on the summary list......
Thanks (tremendously) in advance.
Steve - Central Coast NSW
SS H4 Hover glide good foil retails around $1,400 bit heavier than Naish that retails $1,750 about the same weight as the Takuma which retails $1,700 . The Slingshot has ton of wings and mast to choose from but overall I give the Naish Thrust Large thumbs up as best of 3 . Forget any knock offs.
You are asking all the rite questions..
Big question is, is money a issue if not defiantly stay away from the no name stuff..
I learnt to sup foil on a naish malolo (had a few years kite foiling experience before hand tho) and found the crossover really easy..
I have since moved onto the North/Fanatic setup and for the last year have been punching out my own infused carbon wings, trying to find what works and what doesn't..
My advice is spend the cash and get a good brand name that invests in R&D and offer/ or will offer in the future a interchangeable wing system, because there is no unicorn of a wing/foil each and every shape/aspect/size excels in different environments
Weight was what won me over with the fanatic setup, seems to be the lightest thing on market at moment and coupled with custom wings it would be 1/2 the weight of some of the other setups mentioned above..
Curved foils are so 2017?? Sounds like something a guy trying to push a brand producing flat foils would say
Select to expand quotestevet73 said..
......One of the quotes in a Colas thread was "Curved foils are so 2017".....which was quite a chuckle...
Bear in mind that at some time discussions became quite heated, with even some fake accounts thrown in the mix to troll things up, so there has been some exaggerations. I was (over-)reacting to "flat wings don't work" flames at the time.
Basically, a curved wing loses efficiency, but balances on a point that is at the center of the curve: a downwards curved wing will seem to balance on a point under the wing (thus introducing unstability), an upwards curved one will be stabler, as if hooked by strings on a point above. The same for the stabilizer, but reversed, as it wing pulls downwards. Add to the equation that a wider wing is stabler, plus induce strange things in turns (the relative speeds of the tips vary a lot), and the stabilizer geometry adds or remove stability.
The result is that a foil is a compromise on many points. On the stability, you may want more (waves) or less (downwind) of it, and to get there you have many parameters to tweak, one of them being the wing curve. For instance Gong chose to add liveliness by keeping the wingspan relatively narrow rather than using downwards curve. Go foil went the other route with its new huge wings.
"Removing foil after every session to avoid corrosion....seriously!?" yes, if you have aluminum parts. You can reduce the effect by buying 3rd-party titanium screws rather than "simple" A4 stainless steel ones.
For newbies, you want to go in the weakest waves possible for safety (but with at least 8s period), and big wings will be MUCH easier for this. In my experience, foiling in waves powerful enough to have fun with a longSUP are not worth the risks in foiling for the gear and pilot, so better plan to use a foiling setup geared for weak waves or downwinds.
Picks, Coxy, colas.....
Thank you for cutting through all the "funk"....and so promptly...
Naish Thrust large it is. Washing every second session (sorry, but just on principal I can't deconstruct and wash after every session).
Has anyone sourced these titanium screws for the Thrust? Perhaps I'll get them straight up. For such a significant outlay though, it's a bit baffling they don't come standard.
Thank you for saving me a trip to the shrink......
"Picks".....should have been "Piros".....damn auto correct....
.... thanks again for the input
Re washing - If the screws are good quality stainless they should be fine with no washing. Many years of windsurfing and kiting I have never washed anything. Had a kite foil for about a year never washed and the screws were fine when I sold it. Titanium would be a rip.
Select to expand quotestevet73 said..
Picks, Coxy, colas.....
Thank you for cutting through all the "funk"....and so promptly...
Naish Thrust large it is. Washing every second session (sorry, but just on principal I can't deconstruct and wash after every session).
Has anyone sourced these titanium screws for the Thrust? Perhaps I'll get them straight up. For such a significant outlay though, it's a bit baffling they don't come standard.
Thank you for saving me a trip to the shrink......
Just load it up with DURALAC when assembling it and give it a good hose out and INOX after each use..
Pulling it down after every use or 2nd use will result in killing it with kindness IMO
Select to expand quotePiros said..
SS H4 Hover glide good foil retails around $1,400 bit heavier than Naish that retails $1,750 about the same weight as the Takuma which retails $1,700 . The Slingshot has ton of wings and mast to choose from but overall I give the Naish Thrust Large thumbs up as best of 3 . Forget any knock offs.
I'm in the same boat. About to pull the trigger but constantly mining for more information. I am considering A combination package from Go Foil or the Nash Thrust. How does the Go Foil compare to the Nash?
Select to expand quotehilly said..
Many years of windsurfing and kiting I have never washed anything.
Same here, but you must understand that corrosion happens when different metals are in contact via salt water. And it is especially true with aluminum which is super active electrically-wise. So you will not see this issue with fin or straps screws that are far away from other metals on the board, or on carbon parts (mast foot, boom). But it would destroy quickly aluminum booms fittings and pins if you did not disassemble and rinse your aluminum booms often.
100% Carbon foils do not have the issue.
Select to expand quoteDaHammerBDA said..Piros said..
SS H4 Hover glide good foil retails around $1,400 bit heavier than Naish that retails $1,750 about the same weight as the Takuma which retails $1,700 . The Slingshot has ton of wings and mast to choose from but overall I give the Naish Thrust Large thumbs up as best of 3 . Forget any knock offs.
I'm in the same boat. About to pull the trigger but constantly mining for more information. I am considering A combination package from Go Foil or the Nash Thrust. How does the Go Foil compare to the Nash?
The Naish only has 2 wings Med & Large . I've got the new Go Foil 5 pack arriving in a couple of days. Really like my Naish Thrust but love the light weight feel and extra stiffness of my Go Foil. Plus 4 screws total is the bomb. No one else can offer the wing sets to match the new GoFoil wings . They have triple pack sets in small , med & Large as well to suit your size. The more you ride and improve you need different wings . Downwinding on foils is going to go mental but those specific wings are no good in waves. Yes you can Downwind on a Naish Thrust but the Maliko 200 leaves it for dead. The new IWA by GF is getting rave reviews for being the small surf Downwind Foil. That's why it's in all 3 of the triple pack wing sets.
Select to expand quotePiros said..DaHammerBDA said..Piros said..
SS H4 Hover glide good foil retails around $1,400 bit heavier than Naish that retails $1,750 about the same weight as the Takuma which retails $1,700 . The Slingshot has ton of wings and mast to choose from but overall I give the Naish Thrust Large thumbs up as best of 3 . Forget any knock offs.
I'm in the same boat. About to pull the trigger but constantly mining for more information. I am considering A combination package from Go Foil or the Nash Thrust. How does the Go Foil compare to the Nash?
The Naish only has 2 wings Med & Large . I've got the new Go Foil 5 pack arriving in a couple of days. Really like my Naish Thrust but love the light weight feel and extra stiffness of my Go Foil. Plus 4 screws total is the bomb. No one else can offer the wing sets to match the new GoFoil wings . They have triple pack sets in small , med & Large as well to suit your size. The more you ride and improve you need different wings . Downwinding on foils is going to go mental but those specific wings are no good in waves. Yes you can Downwind on a Naish Thrust but the Maliko 200 leaves it for dead. The new IWA by GF is getting rave reviews for being the small surf Downwind Foil. That's why it's in all 3 of the triple pack wing sets.
Thanks for your feedback Piros, I feel better about parting with my hard earned cash. I pulled the trigger on the triple pack. Any thoughts on foil specific boards? The main focus has been on the foils but I feel the board is also a big part of the equation. My regular boards are Sunova Flash 8'6" 112L Sunova Speeed 8'5" 113L & Sunova Speeed 8'8" 123L with most of my time spent on the Flash or smaller Speeed. So at this point my front runner for the foil board is the Sunova Foil 7'8" 117L. Does the foil create more stability, like a keel on a sailboat, when your standing around? If so I may be able to go down a size.
The foil board shape is now developing faster than the foils . Your pick of the Sunova 7-8 foil board is my pick as well for current production boards ( 7-4 but low in volume for me ) and yes the foil gives more stability plus the Gofoil floats so you don't loose any volume from it.
You want the board as small and narrow as possible . What we are doing now is dropping down on the board for big hook turns then straight back up onto the foil. Plus pushing through foam balls . Got this from watching Austin & Dave Kalama , so the board shape comes back into play . Complete 180 from my early boards that were longer fatter and flatter. New board coming from Dave Kalama has big chined rails extra nose & tail lift and flat mid section . It's 7-2 x 27 but has more volume than my current 7-6 x 28 .
Select to expand quotePiros said..
The foil board shape is now developing faster than the foils ........ New board coming from Dave Kalama has big chined rails extra nose & tail lift and flat mid section . It's 7-2 x 27 but has more volume than my current 7-6 x 28 .
I agree with Piros....here is why
I've put foils on a couple of normal SUPs. It was doable. I foiled them. But lost interest pretty quick. It just felt awkward, more work than it should be, and wrong. I started to think going prone with the foil, was the only way it would satisfy me.
I was already a foil rider, kite, and windsurf, so lots of foil time on lots of boards. SUP and a foil just felt like it needed more development to get it truly right.
Then I saw where Takuma was going with their design. A blown up kite foil board for SUP. Plus Dave Kalama doing something similar, but different. Similar thinking I'll bet.
So I said to myself, what the heck, I'll take the hint and shape my own SUP foil board taking inspiration from Kalama and Takuma.
It has blown my mind. This is what foiling on a SUP was meant to be like.
Personly I went down the chined rail route and built a few but as far as taking off in minimal conditions it was a big disadvantage and loosing the volume out the rail made life hard work in messy condition. I think there is still a long way to go on board design and many different approches still to try and far away from any sort of design features being the definitive answer.
Select to expand quotecharlieuk said..
Personly I went down the chined rail route and built a few but as far as taking off in minimal conditions it was a big disadvantage and loosing the volume out the rail made life hard work in messy condition.
Those were my fears too. But mine turned out to be the most stable board I've foiled and it catches everything with ease. That's why it blew my mind.
Try again, but go more radical, just like Takuma did.
Tip, volume has to be right. Not too much. You must be down in the water, rail submerged, deck flush with surface. Then it's super stable. When my wife foils my board, she is riding high and dry on the high spot of the bottom, rails out, not stable. It will never be a high volume model for beginners.
Select to expand quotesupSURFmachines said..charlieuk said..
Personly I went down the chined rail route and built a few but as far as taking off in minimal conditions it was a big disadvantage and loosing the volume out the rail made life hard work in messy condition.
Those were my fears too. But mine turned out to be the most stable board I've foiled and it catches everything with ease. That's why it blew my mind.
Try again, but go more radical, just like Takuma did.
Tip, volume has to be right. Not too much. You must be down in the water, rail submerged, deck flush with surface. Then it's super stable. When my wife foils my board, she is riding high and dry on the high spot of the bottom, rails out, not stable. It will never be a high volume model for beginners.Select to expand quotesupSURFmachines said..charlieuk said..
Personly I went down the chined rail route and built a few but as far as taking off in minimal conditions it was a big disadvantage and loosing the volume out the rail made life hard work in messy condition.
Those were my fears too. But mine turned out to be the most stable board I've foiled and it catches everything with ease. That's why it blew my mind.
Try again, but go more radical, just like Takuma did.
Tip, volume has to be right. Not too much. You must be down in the water, rail submerged, deck flush with surface. Then it's super stable. When my wife foils my board, she is riding high and dry on the high spot of the bottom, rails out, not stable. It will never be a high volume model for beginners.
Some of my experiments were probably even more radical and have more I'm testing at the moment but having the hard rail that release quick, early and un stick the board work 5x better than the chined and round bottom that break the surface on both take off and in light touch downs. I should get to try a 6'10 relativly soon so I will get to see what that's exactly like.
The stated Takuma design goal with the narrow center panel (9"-12" my guess) was to get the board to unstick from the water better. Better pump, earlier take off.
That is what my version really excels at, so I'm a believer.
I would like to hear more test reports from Takuma ZK users
Select to expand quotesupSURFmachines said..
The stated Takuma design goal with the narrow center panel (9"-12" my guess) was to get the board to unstick from the water better. Better pump, earlier take off.
That is what my version really excels at, so I'm a believer.
I would like to hear more test reports from Takuma ZK users
Hey Guys
I have the 6'10 x 26 ZK and found it an awesome board. The bottom shape does help the early takeoff and you dont feel stuck to the water when you touch down. When I first got it I thought I was going to be doing a lot of swimming as it was so narrow but after a session it felt fine. Most of the volume is placed in the centre of the board and more towards the back so you find yourself standing in the takeoff position most of the time.
Some great info being thrown around. Although I was going to go Naish Thrust, Im now looking again at heading back towards the Slingshot Hoverglide (likely a H4?). Seems it will work out about $500 cheaper if bundled with my foil box installation. Given it was a significant "campaign" to get it through the financial committee (wife, mortgage, kids etc), $500 is considerable.
Mr. Piros seems to have an "equipment genie", which Im terribly jealous of, and would go that Go Foil triple set (4 screws....oh the joy!) if I had control of the lamp for a few days, but the Hoverglide, all things considered, may be my best option....
ANY OTHER USER EXPERIENCES with the the HOVERGLIDE - and H4 over H2?
Sounds like the H4 will provide longest term usability/progression...even though the H2 might be easier initially. Im comfortable in my surf skills for the H4 straight off I think...
RE SUP FOIL BOARDS (conversion - what Im doing)
Again, related a bit to "equipment genie" limitations, I sourced a used 7'8 Hypernut (The AST electric finish - it's between the basic and carbon construction). Box being installed currently. After some research, this seemed like a suitable SUP foil candidate for my 73kg's - plus I can still use as a normal board when the mood takes me.
Part of my proposal to the financial committee, apart from ensuring my sanity as a parent, was that if all goes financially pear shaped, there is so little used SUP foil gear around (none?), we'd be able to regroup most/all of invested monies - proposal was finally approved....
I have the SS H2 foil setup.
The wing is a lot smaller when compared to Naish/go foil. More suited to towing and windsurf foiling I think over Supping. Have a look at the North/fanatic foils as well?
The Slingshot Set up is well built. I tend to always take the mast off the fuselage after every session (two bottoms bolts) this makes it easier for fitting in the back of the car.
I currently use the 24" mast and plate mount for surf/sup. And 30" mast for windsurf with the deep Tuttle adaptor. Slingshot are the only brand that use M10 bolts Vs M6 to connect the Tuttle box(needed for windsurf mode). This does require you to enlarge the holes in most stock boards!!
I haven't seen or tried the H4 wing, does look a lot bigger and perhaps more slow speed lift. Here's a pics of the H2 in Windfoil mode.
Rode the H2 on my Sup Foil very surprised with the amount of lift for such a high aspect foil. I found it one of the harder foils to ride , its very flat and the tips kept surfacing on turns making it slide plus when white water gets around it the board would spin out. Some epic kart wheeling falls . As Baldy mentioned above its a wind foil and pretty popular with the tow crew.
For paddling in definetly would pick the H4 over the H2 also have ridden the new Fanatic set beautiful looking super wide high aspect foil but it does have heaps of flex and you can feel it twisting under you board same as the SS H10 ( proto monster wing ) Really throws your balance off paddling around and makes them twitchy in flight.
The 7-8 hypernut is a good pick to convert and you're right about resale I have resold a few foils very quickly . Prone , Sup , Kite & wind foilers are all looking for used gear. There has been a shift from the very high aspect foils and the low aspect Sup/ Surf foils are now being used on kite and windfoil boards for low wind days . That added lift and more stablility also makes them easier to use.
Hey Baldy looking at your pic have you tried the mast mount forward in the wing , according to the SS boys that's the placement for windfoiling. I tired it on my Sup and couldn't get it to lift.
I am nearly in the market for a SUP foil that I can also windfoil with in lighter winds and waves and I rode the Slingshot H2 wind foiling on the Wizard 125L windfoil board. I found it very easy to pop up and fly and did my first full foiling gybe on it and very close on a few other attempts. I use a high aspect Neil Pryde foil for wind foiling so the Slingshot H2 looks medium aspect to me.
I think for SUP I'd go bigger than the H2 but not sure how that would be for wind foiling?
Also thinking about converting my Deep Minion 7'4x27.75" 104L for foiling but wonder if that is too low volume for me @85kg? I am also wondering if I get the Minion converted for winding too by putting straps and a mast track in it?
Piros
I use the mast through wing on tow surfing and sup. Seems to work good. Just have to get feet in right spot to balance the lift.
For windsurf mode mount mast needs behind wing always!! This gives good amount of lift (ie somewhere under your front foot). Tried it once with mast through the wing and too much drag/no lift.
Stev0
I my option I don't think it's worth trying to use a converted sup to windfoil on. It will be a real compromise on stance and balance point for the rig/foil.
I'm now using a 10yo hypersonic 105 (227x77cm) which works a treat. Once wind gets up, you need to be out on the rails. I'm also always in the straps from the get go to pump the board onto the foil and through any lulls. I've maxed the SS H2 out at 33km/h. This seems to be its top end. Works best in 12knots to 22knots.
MALOLO vs THRUST? .......Piros?
I good man here on the Central Coast has a used one he would part to me (which would take a significant endge off buying a new Naish Thrust foil.Has anyone used the Malolo?
I know it is superseded by the Thrust now but don't know how much they actually differ (one blog stated the Malolo was virtually the same as the Thrust but the Thrust had the more universal plate mount...not the tuttle box attachment).
Or is a Thrust sooooo much better?
Thanks again
Select to expand quotesteve_worm said..
MALOLO vs THRUST? .......Piros?
I good man here on the Central Coast has a used one he would part to me (which would take a significant endge off buying a new Naish Thrust foil.Has anyone used the Malolo?
I know it is superseded by the Thrust now but don't know how much they actually differ (one blog stated the Malolo was virtually the same as the Thrust but the Thrust had the more universal plate mount...not the tuttle box attachment).
Or is a Thrust sooooo much better?
Thanks again
Hey Steve, if that is leftys foil you are talking of it has the plate setup (it's was a option on the malolo)
Great foil in the rite condition.. I learnt on it, it's a near bombproof setup too..
Select to expand quotesteve_worm said..
MALOLO vs THRUST? .......Piros?
I good man here on the Central Coast has a used one he would part to me (which would take a significant endge off buying a new Naish Thrust foil.Has anyone used the Malolo?
I know it is superseded by the Thrust now but don't know how much they actually differ (one blog stated the Malolo was virtually the same as the Thrust but the Thrust had the more universal plate mount...not the tuttle box attachment).
Or is a Thrust sooooo much better?
Thanks again
The Malolo is the same front wing as the Thrust Surf Medium. The rear wing on the Thrust is adjustable, on the Malolo it is not. The only reason to really go Thrust is if you're a heavier rider or planning to DW or ride tiny conditions and need the Large Front Wing. This said, the adjustable rear is a great addition for fine tuning. I ride my Thrust Surf Large with about 1-2mm of rear wing lift. Also you could purchase the Malolo and purchase an accessory Large Thurst Front Wing. One of the greatest things about the Naish System is the interchangeability. You can basically cover 6 sports by adding accessory parts to your thrust foil.
Ride safe,
JB
