Trying to get my head around it, why aren't shallow draft yachts more popular?
If they can design a cruising yacht with a draft of 1.5m or less, why aren't there more of 'em. Makes sense so much easier to tuck right into that cosy little anchorage.
I guess to save money in construction long cruising keels like the 70s
Yachts are not popular motors with legs are quicker to install bolt on keels are quick and easy to fit
It's a bing bang boo world these days
Cost faster and quicker construction I guess
cant agree more with hg production boats design the interior first and fit a shell around it this gives best value for money having lighter displacement (less material )and higher internal volume with maximum beam housewives love it. This also means to get enough lateral resistance draft needs to increase if you are using fin keels as high aspect ratios are more efficient. this also has the advantage of decreasing costs as berthing is paid for per length slipping costs drop as long keels have higher wetted surface (more paint and higher haul out per volume )
having said all the positives i have a 37 foot boat drawing 4 foot 10 inches with lower internal volume comfort at sea attached rudder and don't intend to change
design is driven by the customers and most people buy Hyundai not many buy rollers
I think it's a bit market dependent. Compare boat classifieds here to the UK, where there's a lot more estuary sailing and harbours with huge tidal variation. You'll see heaps of twin/bilge keel boats there.
In Sydney at least, it's not really that important - we've got a nice deep harbour, so why not take advantage of the stability a deeper keel gives you? If not that, we're more likely to have a trailer sailor so as not to pay mooring/marina fees.
My old boat with its long keel can sit on a beach after bringing in on a high tide couple of props to make sure and could be scubbed between tides
if i only wanted to sail on Sydney harbor (deep flat water day sailing ) i would own an mc 38 or something similar as a Queenslander especially Morton bay where if you haven't touched the bottom regularly your just not trying or for offshore narrower beam (smother ride in chop ) shoaler draft( tucking behind islands to get out of the roll )give me long keel heavy displacement any day
probably also why there are so many cats up here but the jerky ride and lack of windward ability , load carrying and price puts me off a bit
and i just don't like cruising cats
Don't confuse shoal draft with long keel, there are a lot of deep draft long keepers round. Most of the modern boat manufacturers offer a shoal draft version and what you buy depends usually where you live. For example my Hanse 57 is a shoal draft version as I live in Brisbane drawing 7'3" against 9'4" for the standard keel. 7'3" is not bad for a 57 footer. The disadvantage is that we weigh 900kg more and our windward ability may be a little worse plus the cost was a couple of grand more. I have sailed the standard keel version of my boat and can not tell the difference. Unless you were looking for every bit of speed, I would go shoal draft any day.
Why-arent-shallow-drafts-more-popular
Possibly because they don't sail to windward very well .
Select to expand quoteboty said..
7and half foot shoal draft ??????
I have no problems in Morton Bay including going down the inside to the Gold Coast with with that draft. The wire at Russel Island are more of a problem with an air draft of 85' .
31' Hanse shoal draft 4'6"
38' Hanse shoal draft 5'3"
And yes they do go to windward.
I sit on 8.2kn at 29deg app in 13kn of breeze. Not bad for a shoal draft boat, try and catch me. 
Select to expand quoteSandS said..
Why-arent-shallow-drafts-more-popular
Possibly because they don't sail to windward very well .
You get ten points for that answer SandS. 
The shoal draughters tend to adhere to the rule "When weeds and grass appear on the bow, it is time to come about!!"
The deep draughters tend to adhere to the rule "The sounder alarm is screaming it's head off, we should have tacked 5 minutes ago!!!"
Select to expand quoteJode5 said..
I sit on 8.2kn at 29deg app in 13kn of breeze. Not bad for a shoal draft boat, try and catch me.
I bear witness to that. A powerful yacht is Jode 7. I loved sailing on her last Good Friday but I am not covetous to own such a yacht. Had I the wherewithal financially to own such a yacht I no doubt would but I would be thinking more along the lines of Shaggybaxter's "Pogo 42".
So here is a question for you Jode5. You have yet to do your 20th B2G race and Shaggy is considering his first. Are you going this year???
If so, I want to be on Fusion or Jode7. 
P.S. I would love even more to be doing the race on Second Wind but there are too many jobs to be done on her to consider this year. I am hoping to do it next year.
Select to expand quotecisco said...Jode5 said..
I sit on 8.2kn at 29deg app in 13kn of breeze. Not bad for a shoal draft boat, try and catch me.
I bear witness to that. A powerful yacht is Jode 7. I loved sailing on her last Good Friday but I am not covetous to own such a yacht. Had I the wherewithal financially to own such a yacht I no doubt would but I would be thinking more along the lines of Shaggybaxter's "Pogo 42".
So here is a question for you Jode5. You have yet to do your 20th B2G race and Shaggy is considering his first. Are you going this year???
If so, I want to be on Fusion or Jode7.
P.S. I would love even more to be doing the race on Second Wind but there are too many jobs to be done on her to consider this year. I am hoping to do it next year.
No, not this year Deb has other plans. My be I should go with shaggy next year then do the Keppel race on Jo-De7 on the way back up the reef.
My mate's shoal draught Adams at 0.7metres, points pretty well. Might be a few degrees difference to a highly strung zillion bucks race boat, but after all it is a Clydesdale instead of a Phar Lap.
The dagger board gave him some grief recently, this might be the reason this type of keel did not get more popular. Sails well, one can go around Moreton Bay, no worries, but it is next to a nightmare to antifoul or maintain. 
The other Adams at 1.47metres, l managed to drag once coming down inside Bribie Island at night. 
Last week l was told, 'gentlemen do not sail upwind'. The fellow is a multi hull enthusiasts...
I only have one word to say on this subject:
Pogo
Why dont more modern yachts use this system???
It's the best of both worlds
Hi Bluemoon my understanding the reason there are not many shoal draft boats ,because most younger
cruisers want to get there yesterday not tomorrow. l.o.l .People want to go fast so they prefer to buy tupperware ,
boats when they run aground ever how slight it maybe ,then realize that they have a problem,and that usually
means a haul out as the keel has come loose or the rudder is hung in a way that any object struck is usually
going to strike it. I dare say I will cop some flack over my comments just matter of what one really prefers also
having shoal draft means that you get access a lot more places. My first post dare say will properly will set tongues wagging.
Have a good day to all fellow sailors. Cheers
Select to expand quoteandy59 said..
I only have one word to say on this subject:
Pogo
Why dont more modern yachts use this system???
It's the best of both worlds
Do you mean the Pogo canting keel system? I'd have thunked it would be a bit fragile in some situations and complicated, no? Personally, I hate using motors to charge batteries or move ballast.
Even a canting keel mono is really slow up against a comparable multi, so some of us just prefer the simple option. My boat lives in a river with a depth of 1m at low water over the bar so if we move to a bigger boat we'll probably get a centreboarder, but I have yet to see one that doesn't intrude into the accommodation.
Hello Ashanti!
Imo....you will find this forum welcomes other opinions rather than just ridicule. I found this forum very welcoming ....if only we could drag some more advice out off the old sea dogs who look but don't post much because they can't be bothered with negative replies
Nothing wrong with a heated debate...but it just seems ( for me) to ask for others experience and share my limited its nice not to cop a heap of abuse.
I guess the mods should be thanked.
I started a thread about cutting my keel off back a bit
Got some great replies.
I did it ( against good arguments) and I'm super happy . 8 inches is all my girl needs!!
BUT
Horses for courses...shallow is great for every thing but
SAILING
But as Ashanti correctly said...whats the hurry
Island time
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said...andy59 said..
I only have one word to say on this subject:
Pogo
Why dont more modern yachts use this system???
It's the best of both worlds
Do you mean the Pogo canting keel system? I'd have thunked it would be a bit fragile in some situations and complicated, no? Personally, I hate using motors to charge batteries or move ballast.
Even a canting keel mono is really slow up against a comparable multi, so some of us just prefer the simple option. My boat lives in a river with a depth of 1m at low water over the bar so if we move to a bigger boat we'll probably get a centreboarder, but I have yet to see one that doesn't intrude into the accommodation.
Hi Chris
I meant the Pogo swing keel like Shaggy's Pogo 12.50. It's a brilliant system.
Welcome Ashanti
SirGallivant, why are you picking on multihulls, most people don't bother sailing upwind regardless of the amount of hulls, they turn on the engine and motor, it is usually the most efficient way to get anywhere, besides which an additional ten degrees either side of the wind isn't that much when your tacking into a head wind anyway
There is nothing quite like having a yacht that will power to windward.
They say that gentlemen do not sail to windward but certainly determined sailors do.
what about my favorit UK Westerly Centaur, that would find many admirers along East Coast.
Not many around...maybe the older Australian yachts were built with racing in mind, hence to have a shoal draft was a handicap!
Select to expand quotecisco said..
There is nothing quite like having a yacht that will power to windward.
They say that gentlemen do not sail to windward but certainly determined sailors do.
Yes i agree . There is nothing quite as good as beating to windward in a moderate breeze ! LOVE IT !!!
Its almost like a form of meditation , as the concentration level needed to stay on the breeze is tremendous in some shifty situations .
some fin keelers will actually trac to windward for a long time in flat water with no pressure on the rudder at all when the sails are set up spot on . when this happens , ITS GROUSE !!!!!
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..
Not many around...maybe the older Australian yachts were built with racing in mind, hence to have a shoal draft was a handicap!
my X brother in law winning races on Handicap NSW a Top Hat
Select to expand quoteBruski068 said..
SirGallivant, why are you picking on multihulls, most people don't bother sailing upwind regardless of the amount of hulls, they turn on the engine and motor, it is usually the most efficient way to get anywhere, besides which an additional ten degrees either side of the wind isn't that much when your tacking into a head wind anyway
I don't think Sir G is having a go at multis, just at the people who try to say that upwind performance isn't important for some others.
If you wanted to use the "most efficient" way to get most places you wouldn't use sails at all ( you'd just buy a powerboat) and for many places you wouldn't even use a boat. But many of us don't like motoring on a yacht. It's often smelly, noisy and unpleasant.
An extra 10 degrees can make an enormous difference in a typical east coast SE or NE breeze. It's the difference between loping along the coast and sagging into the shore and having to spend eons making a losing tack back out. It can be the difference between getting where you want to go, and not being able to.
Select to expand quoteSandS said..cisco said..
There is nothing quite like having a yacht that will power to windward.
They say that gentlemen do not sail to windward but certainly determined sailors do.
Yes i agree . There is nothing quite as good as beating to windward in a moderate breeze ! LOVE IT !!!
Its almost like a form of meditation , as the concentration level needed to stay on the breeze is tremendous in some shifty situations .
some fin keelers will actually trac to windward for a long time in flat water with no pressure on the rudder at all when the sails are set up spot on . when this happens , ITS GROUSE !!!!!
Yep, philosophers of sport have actually coined the word (ilinx) for the joyful feeling we get from getting "out of balance" when we are doing sports. Sailing a good boat to windward at the fastest angle of heel (whether it is a dinghy, keelboat, fast tri or small cat) is huge fun.
I have some friends who have lived aboard their boat since the mid '80s. They have done something like 200,000 offshore miles including months in Alaska and weeks around Cape Horn, been British offshore racing yacht of the year about 7 times, won their class in the Fastnet about 7 times, won their class in the Hobart the only time they did it, won the biggest NZ race, and they will happily leave NZ and sail upwind for weeks on end to go cruising. Many other sailors do the same thing....this whole "gentlemen don't sail to windward" thing is rubbish. Sure, sensible sailors may not beat down from FNQ against the trades by choice, but sometimes it's not just necessary but also fun.
Select to expand quoteandy59 said..Chris 249 said...andy59 said..
I only have one word to say on this subject:
Pogo
Why dont more modern yachts use this system???
It's the best of both worlds
Do you mean the Pogo canting keel system? I'd have thunked it would be a bit fragile in some situations and complicated, no? Personally, I hate using motors to charge batteries or move ballast.
Even a canting keel mono is really slow up against a comparable multi, so some of us just prefer the simple option. My boat lives in a river with a depth of 1m at low water over the bar so if we move to a bigger boat we'll probably get a centreboarder, but I have yet to see one that doesn't intrude into the accommodation.
Hi Chris
I meant the Pogo swing keel like Shaggy's Pogo 12.50. It's a brilliant system.
Welcome Ashanti
OK, I couldn't find anything about that on the Pogo site.
Well thank you fellow sailors for the welcome to the site, seems that I have set some tongues wagging,just a matter of
opiinon . Each to there own . hope all have fair wind and smooth seas to sail apond. Cheers.
Select to expand quoteHG02 said..
nswsailor said..
Not many around...maybe the older Australian yachts were built with racing in mind, hence to have a shoal draft was a handicap!
my X brother in law winning races on Handicap NSW a Top Hat
It should be said, though, that winning on arbitrary handicap means absolutely nothing about how well a boat is sailed or how fast it is. The systems just keep on giving you a bigger handicap until you win, regardless of whether you are sailing a TS16 brilliantly or a TP52 terribly, and regardless of the speed of the boat. The proof of the pudding is in the one design fleets, where the fastest sailor often gets creamed on handicap by people in the same type of boat who finish 10 minutes behind.
IMHO the fact that in Oz we basically just have arbitrary for small yachts is a real problem. Sailing a small or older boat well gives you no better chance of winning on handicap than sailing badly on any boat. Other countries have systems like PHRF or HN, where they will rate the boat's potential and therefore give people who sail a Top Hat, Careel or TP52 well, a better chance of winning than people who sail slowly.
