Yes depends on application.
Pros: You get increased breaking load strength compared to any given dia poly rope and it stretches a lot less under load.
Cons: cost
Unless you're having a particular problem, like too much stretch in your main halyard or you need to reduce the dia of an existing line while retaining the same SWL, then do the sums on the cost to see if it's worth it.
Ibdon't know if you get a longer working life, if so that may come into the calculation?
Hiya Bundeenaboy,
If the problem is not big loads then my general guide:
Dyneema for halyards makes sense, as double braid stretches and you want the heads of your spinnaker, headsail or main to stay where they are.
Double braid for sheets, as it is much easier on the hands and you don't care if ?ou get a bit of stretch, just cinch it up with the sheet winch.
I have all dyneema on the boat only due to loads. I did try a set of double braid sheets for my genoa, they didn't last longer than a few outings unfortunately, otherwise I'd be using the db.
Cheers!
SB
Select to expand quoteI did try a set of double braid sheets for my genoa, they didn't last longer than a few outings unfortunately, otherwise I'd be using the db.
Cheers!
SB
Wow that made me look up the genoa size for your boat, 42sqm for ~4.5 ton, fun :)
Dyneema for the vang, main and headsail halyards , double braid for the spinnaker halyard ( I don't mind it having a bit of stretch) and everything else
regards Don
We are using Dyneema for asymm kite prodder rope down to the cutwater, jib barber haulers and vang. Goes well. Light 9.3m racer cruiser 2tonnes
Select to expand quoteDonk107 said..
Dyneema for the vang, main and headsail halyards , double braid for the spinnaker halyard ( I don't mind it having a bit of stretch) and everything else
regards Don
I have the exact same as Don,,, plus a couple of dyneema check stays
I use Dyneema for various stuff. Soft shackles etc. Makes for good mooring risers, boat trailer winches. I even use it for safety loops on the suspension on my race car. The only downside is it's hard to cut. One of these days I will replace my lifelines with Dyneema.
It's interesting how the local makers of Dyneema soft shackles have disappeared from eBay. The place is now full of Chinese made items and they don't always use the actual term Dyneema.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/Blue-8mm-Soft-Shackles-ATV-Winch-Shackle-Synthetic-Rope-Shackle-for-Sailing/401596950239?hash=item5d810b26df:g:FNAAAOSwhwlb7kkL
So what about Dyneema and lifelines?
Better? worse? cost?
[I'd have to have plastic inserts in my stantions as well]
Cannot imagine Dyneema working for lifelines sorry......as you say would surely need plastic inserts in the stanchions to handle the wear issues.........cannot see them lasting as long as ss wire and would be more expensive anyway?
I have dyneema for main and jib halliards, around 3 or 4 years old now.
Only downside was their reduced diameter (for given load capability), put them in the lower end of my Spinlock clutch range.
Despite replacing the jaws and going down a size, the end solution to minimise slipping was to add an internal bulking splice to the working section of the tail.
otherwise all good.
(another ad for Drew at www.wettech )has readymade halliards or will custom make for you inc splicing
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Cannot imagine Dyneema working for lifelines sorry......as you say would surely need plastic inserts in the stanchions to handle the wear issues.........cannot see them lasting as long as ss wire and would be more expensive anyway?
Dyneema is surprisingly cheap.
www.sail-world.com/news/214202/Would-you-trust-Dyneema-with-your-lifelines
My main halyard is Dyneema and I think that's a good choice for the application. My backstay is also Dyneema and works well. I also have a small dia loop fixing the cunningham to the bottom of the mast which is a good use of Dyneema as it retains strength with a small dia. but doesn't bulk it up around that area. I think my vang line may be Dyneema as well. I considered Dyneem life lines a year ago when I was replacing my old plastic coated ss ones, but I don't think it's allowed for racing so I just went SS again (uncoated as that's not allowed either).
I run dynex sk75 5mm for main halyard direct to a wire winch and headsail halyards are 5 mm spliced into 3 strand which goes onto the winch then a horn cleat the main topper is also 5mm dynex direct to ahorn cleat this works real well asit is light doesn't bang on the leach of the sail and is also acting as a spare main halyard
I was out sailing today and looking around I realized I use 2mm Dyneema for whipping on rope ends.
Use dyneema on Spin., Headsail halyards ,tack line for assy and keel rope to electric winch. I'll be changing main halyard to dyneema ASAP as in any wind I'm have to bring on Cunningham to offset stretch. ( it's old double braid and I'm to old to tighten halyard and steer).
One thing that Rumblefish or one of the trade gents may have better info on, but raw dyneema apparently degrades in prolonged exposure to UV. I have raw dyneema for the bobstay on the bowsprit, after three years the exposed dyneema is getting furry, which means its definitely time to replace it. I really should have done it at 18 months to be safe. Unsure why it is raw, I think it might be for ultra low friction, but that's a guess. Anyone?
As a counter though, on a recent outing a regular crew had a blonde moment and used the electric winch to tension the bowsprit, a BIG no-no. I looked up to see the 100mm square bowsprit bending at a crazy angle disappearing in front of the bow with the winch audibly shuddering in protest and the poor bobstay thrumming like a piano wire.
The bobstay load is rated at 2 x forestay load, and I reckon we over torqued it past that, yet the bobstay showed no visible abuse at all. So for a three year old furry raw dyneema line I'm super impressed, that's a tough rope.
Dyneema comes in several grades and the stuff I see is generally grey, blue or orange. The orange is what the local mooring contractor here uses and is the stuff used for mooring oil rigs. Not sure what the UV life is for the orange But I think it's over 10 years. The breaking strain is 68 tons and seems enough for moorings! The grey is what is the core of Spectra and I think as long as you buy from a reliable supplier you will get the real deal. Drew at www.wettech. The blue stuff is usually SK75 and is the strongest but I notice on eBay it's sometimes listed as simply a synthetic with no mention of Dyneema. Dyneema is just one trade name for this stuff and I'm sure the Chinese are making their own versions and not bothering with licenses and probably a few people here are reselling the product and adding the name Dyneema.
I'm also using some unbranded SK75 as back up on the chain section of my mooring.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene
Dyneema is white or black. Here is a link to the black that was introduced more recently: www.dsm.com/dyneema/en_GB/our-products/dyneema-fiber.html
Other colours are all part of the way each company treats the Dyneema. It is pretty cool to watch the different processes, from special coatings to heat treatments.
You will find a list of companies that make rope out of Dyneema by DSM at the bottom of this link: www.dsm.com/products/dyneema/en_GB/applications/sports-equipment/sailing.html
Select to expand quoteshaggybaxter said..
One thing that Rumblefish or one of the trade gents may have better info on, but raw dyneema apparently degrades in prolonged exposure to UV. I have raw dyneema for the bobstay on the bowsprit, after three years the exposed dyneema is getting furry, which means its definitely time to replace it. I really should have done it at 18 months to be safe. Unsure why it is raw, I think it might be for ultra low friction, but that's a guess. Anyone?
As a counter though, on a recent outing a regular crew had a blonde moment and used the electric winch to tension the bowsprit, a BIG no-no. I looked up to see the 100mm square bowsprit bending at a crazy angle disappearing in front of the bow with the winch audibly shuddering in protest and the poor bobstay thrumming like a piano wire.
The bobstay load is rated at 2 x forestay load, and I reckon we over torqued it past that, yet the bobstay showed no visible abuse at all. So for a three year old furry raw dyneema line I'm super impressed, that's a tough rope.
Dyneema is good for 10 years in UV.
I know of a guy who had dyneema standing rigging and replaced after 10 years. He destruct tested the original and it broke within 6% of the original breaking strain!
The furriness you are getting is due to chafe from salt but it is probably only reduced the strength by 10%.
That said, bobstays are usually recommended to replace every 2-3 years.
IMHO opinion there is only 3 brands of dyneema worth buying in Oz.
Hamdijan, Liros and Marlow
Select to expand quoteshaggybaxter said..
Thanks Rumble, good to know!
why do you have raw dyneema, Ie: no casing?
Dyneema is actually better than polyester cover in resisting chafe.
Polyester cover is designed to grip in a clutch, cleat or winch. Grip = friction = chafe.
Apart from the material itself it's all to do with the construction. Look closely at polyester cover and you'll notice all the threads are at +/-45deg to the direction of the rope.
With dyneema the threads are reverse twisted in each strand so they are in line with the direction of the rope, which means less chafe.
Out of interest this is why you shouldn't use braided lines for dock lines, only 3 strand or 8 plait.
The amount of braided dock lines i see that are chafing is amazing!!
Select to expand quoterumblefish said..shaggybaxter said..
Thanks Rumble, good to know!
why do you have raw dyneema, Ie: no casing?
Dyneema is actually better than polyester cover in resisting chafe.
Polyester cover is designed to grip in a clutch, cleat or winch. Grip = friction = chafe.
Apart from the material itself it's all to do with the construction. Look closely at polyester cover and you'll notice all the threads are at +/-45deg to the direction of the rope.
With dyneema the threads are reverse twisted in each strand so they are in line with the direction of the rope, which means less chafe.
Out of interest this is why you shouldn't use braided lines for dock lines, only 3 strand or 8 plait.
The amount of braided dock lines i see that are chafing is amazing!!
G'day Rumble,
Ever have one of those Ureka moments? I'm standing here with a piece of cased and uncased dyneema line, and it all makes sense now.
That another beer I owe you, thanks very much!
Select to expand quoteshaggybaxter said..rumblefish said..shaggybaxter said..
Thanks Rumble, good to know!
why do you have raw dyneema, Ie: no casing?
Dyneema is actually better than polyester cover in resisting chafe.
Polyester cover is designed to grip in a clutch, cleat or winch. Grip = friction = chafe.
Apart from the material itself it's all to do with the construction. Look closely at polyester cover and you'll notice all the threads are at +/-45deg to the direction of the rope.
With dyneema the threads are reverse twisted in each strand so they are in line with the direction of the rope, which means less chafe.
Out of interest this is why you shouldn't use braided lines for dock lines, only 3 strand or 8 plait.
The amount of braided dock lines i see that are chafing is amazing!!
G'day Rumble,
Ever have one of those Ureka moments? I'm standing here with a piece of cased and uncased dyneema line, and it all makes sense now.
That another beer I owe you, thanks very much!
:)) no problem!!
I find people leave the cover on dyneema more than they should, running backstays for example!!
Oh and NEVER use dyneema for pen lines, unless you want to RIP a cleat out!!
Isn't it funny how a learning mind can sometimes get confused....
in my case, I've just read through this thread, & understood everything.... until I got to 'RIP a cleat out!!'
Hmmm, how can one 'Rest In Peace' a cleat thought I.... ? I then had my own Eureka moment when I realised 'RIP' meant 'rip' not 'R.I.P'.
Oh well, thank you to all of the posters for helping me to learn, & thank you to my slightly confused brain for giving me something to chuckle about.
As the old saying goes... one who laughs at oneself is alway amused! ??
Select to expand quoteSmog said..
Isn't it funny how a learning mind can sometimes get confused....
in my case, I've just read through this thread, & understood everything.... until I got to 'RIP a cleat out!!'
Hmmm, how can one 'Rest In Peace' a cleat thought I.... ? I then had my own Eureka moment when I realised 'RIP' meant 'rip' not 'R.I.P'.
Oh well, thank you to all of the posters for helping me to learn, & thank you to my slightly confused brain for giving me something to chuckle about.
As the old saying goes... one who laughs at oneself is alway amused! ??
Lol, not an intentional use of capital letters, just auto correct, sorry!
We went with double braid on a cruising main halyard and I feel the stretch is so annoying we should have paid the extra for Dyneema.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
We went with double braid on a cruising main halyard and I feel the stretch is so annoying we should have paid the extra for Dyneema.
Can still tip the double braid you have with dyneema!!
