G'day all,
I am about to purchase a yacht and the surveyor requires upfront payment. is this a common practice in the industry? A bit cautious because I have been burned before (although that was only loosing the deposit)
Byron Bay, looking to buy a boat on the Gold Coast. I was given a few names and one of them wants a full payment up front, before he even looks at the boat
Select to expand quoteDavid967 said..
A bit cautious because I have been burned before
And probably so has the Surveyor. Pay before or pay after, would it really matter?
What gets me going are buyers wanting a test sail straight off the mark. Test sail in my opinion is the last thing after you've already spent some time and money (commitment) on all your other due diligence
Select to expand quoteToph said..David967 said..
A bit cautious because I have been burned before
And probably so has the Surveyor. Pay before or pay after, would it really matter?
What gets me going are buyers wanting a test sail straight off the mark. Test sail in my opinion is the last thing after you've already spent some time and money (commitment) on all your other due diligence
One test drives a car, views a house in detail and other things before spending $ on possibly a dud.
I have bought boats through brokers and always test run first.
I think your assumption is one knows everything about a boat up front.
In my case the boats purchased I had not had any previous experience with these boats inregard to on water performance.
Every service I have ever paid for was on completion. I do not mind putting down a deposit and trust goes both ways.
If you pay a 10% deposit you make some commitment and willingness to pay for a survey also proves it.
If I pay the surveyor and he gets into a car accident, what about my money? And I could potentially loose my deposit too.
I was not asking about wanting a sail straight off the mark was I?
No you didn't, I just added that as a foot note after giving my opinion to your enquiry.
It has been 20 years since I drove from the GC to Byron, and back then it wasn't exactly down the road. Negotiate a compromise of pay on site on the day or something like that. But at the end of the day it is you requiring a surveyor and he may not really be requiring your business. It's his terms and conditions you either agree to or not....
You are wise to be "a bit cautious". I view it as extremely bad business to pay up front for anything substantial. That is, anything apart from mail order type products.
The world is littered with victims who paid up front for a product or service that either was never delivered or badly delivered.
As suggested, negotiating a small deposit may suit you but otherwise I'd find another surveyor.
Select to expand quotezilla said..
You are wise to be "a bit cautious". I view it as extremely bad business to pay up front for anything substantial. That is, anything apart from mail order type products.
The world is littered with victims who paid up front for a product or service that either was never delivered or badly delivered.
As suggested, negotiating a small deposit may suit you but otherwise I'd find another surveyor.
second that
I wouldve thought some sort of deposit would be the way to operate? Half now, half after. No experience engaging boat surveyors, but so many other businesses operate this way.
Its a bit of a rash way to operate asking for it all up front. Maybe the surveyor has been burned before, but for the same reasons from the customers perspective, It could lead to lost business.
A surveyor I used did the survey then provided verbal comments however required full payment before providing the written report.
Select to expand quoteboty said..
McDonalds don't let you pay for the hamburger after you have been to the loo
Mcdonalds don't have the ability to take your money and disapper either. They also provide you with a reciept straight after youve paid in lieu of owing you the burger.
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..boty said..
McDonalds don't let you pay for the hamburger after you have been to the loo
Mcdonalds don't have the ability to take your money and disapper either. They also provide you with a reciept straight after youve paid in lieu of owing you the burger.
most decent surveyors will not ask for the money until the survey is ready for delivery the problem lies with trying to get money out of someone when they receive a survey with bad news
Select to expand quoteboty said..Subsonic said..boty said..
McDonalds don't let you pay for the hamburger after you have been to the loo
Mcdonalds don't have the ability to take your money and disapper either. They also provide you with a reciept straight after youve paid in lieu of owing you the burger.
most decent surveyors will not ask for the money until the survey is ready for delivery the problem lies with trying to get money out of someone when they receive a survey with bad news
Two separate things. Why would I take the bad news out on a surveyor? In fact I would want him to do "his worst news". I do not want a surveyor to "yeah all good mate" and sink the way down to Byron.
I had paid a sparky some time ago, who was also a "Master electrician", ABN, etc requesting money up front. Brilliant on the mobile, the most helpful sparky you could ever ask for. Had a stellar reputation so I gave in. Never showed and never could reach him after. Requested direct transfer, so I could not even raise a complaint with the bank like you could with a credit card.
I do paint as side work and I would never ask anyone for an upfront payment. You get one or two who wants to renegotiate after the fact, but you learn to deal with it. And sometimes you win one and sometimes you loose one - that is life.
With a surveyor, not even the survey is guaranteed. It is put in the condition clearly that accuracy is not guaranteed. I do get that but you can do a lazy job and not care and walk away with it. if I get a call 6 months on that the paint I had put on is flaking, I come and fix it. You do not have this option with a survey. So pardon me if I am a bit cautions paying up front. I do not have an $700 lying around. If I had, I'd rather give that to a mate living under a bridge or who is in dire need.
I had Drew Sayer survey my yacht. He travelled two hours from Glenwood up to Bundaberg to do it, charged me $450, did an excellent job and did not ask for his fee upfront. Give him a call.
www.foreandaftsurveyors.com/
ended up cancelling the surveyor, felt a bit bad on the other hand he would not want to compromise, saying he never had an issue and he has done over 500 surveys. But I do not know that.
I was recommended Rod Twitchin (and I did not make that name up), who can do it for $1200 with no upfront payment (bit steep but, I shot the horse and now I have no choice). I called three others and none were available. So better or worse it looks like I will have to pay more.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
I had Drew Sayer survey my yacht. He travelled two hours from Glenwood up to Bundaberg to do it, charged me $450, did an excellent job and did not ask for his fee upfront. Give him a call.
www.foreandaftsurveyors.com/
thanks cisco, that just sound a bit low. I have asked around and the normal mark was $6-700 for a full pre purchase inspection and insurance quote.
The survey he did for me was for insurance purposes, i.e. structural report only. He did say that a pre-purchase inspection would be considerably more, up around the $6-700 mark.
Like I said, "Give him a call!!" What is that going to cost you??
I have had a few surveys done, none wanted upfront payment. I have never heard of anybody in Sydney requiring up front payment.
Personally, I would never pay anybody in this trade upfront. I would pay a deposit and the rest on delivery of the report
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..
I have had a few surveys done, none wanted upfront payment. I have never heard of anybody in Sydney requiring up front payment.
Personally, I would never pay anybody in this trade upfront. I would pay a deposit and the rest on delivery of the report
none of my previous survey's were paid up front. Not even a deposit. Payment done before the report was released.
Select to expand quoteboty said..
McDonalds don't let you pay for the hamburger after you have been to the loo
Were not buying hamburgers, were buying boats. Not quite the same is it ?
Seriously, I have bought and sold four yachts. Not once have I been asked to pay upfront for a survey.
I have just sold my boat and the surveyor for the buyer was a disgrace. He spent three or four minutes on the boat while it was in the marina and charged the buyer for an out of water survey. The new owner is new to boating and doesn't know any better but the surveyor just took advantage of that.
From my point of view, the boat was re-rigged 12 months ago. New antifoul a month ago, all sails just serviced, some new instruments and a boat meticulously maintained from when I bought it. I KNOW he got a good boat but the surveyor ripped him off just the same.
Just to mention that I got a quote from a surveyor in Bundy a while back and he wanted the full cost up front...
I was just doing some research on a boat I was thinking about buying but the sale didn't happen.
When l bought the tub this guy was highly recommended to me as one of the best around. I was way out of my comfort zone in Mooloolaba so l employed him.
He has done the job, never asking for any payment until he finished it. On leaving the Marina he gave me this piece of paper as an 'invoice' after l asked him for it paying him cash.
I was puzzled but took it with a smile knowing we were in Queensland ?
!
His report was one of those surveys which were not worth the paper it was printed on.
Nevertheless, the criminals at ClubMarine were happy with it and that was the only reason - insurance - l had the survey done.
Otherwise l would have been better off spending my dough on charity or at Fortitude Valley 
.
As far as the rigging was concerned, the guy did not even look at it, dismissed it as too old at the age of 13 years, which is an utterly unsupportable position for any person who knows about rigging.
This whole "war-dance" was played out to satisfy the criminals called insurance companies who for their own good decided that a ten year old rigging must be replaced, no matter what.
It is a mafia and we can do noughts about it.
Select to expand quotesirgallivant said..
When l bought the tub this guy was highly recommended to me as one of the best around. I was way out of my comfort zone in Mooloolaba so l employed him.
He has done the job, never asking for any payment until he finished it. On leaving the Marina he gave me this piece of paper as an 'invoice' after l asked him for it paying him cash.
I was puzzled but took it with a smile knowing we were in Queensland ?!
His report was one of those surveys which were not worth the paper it was printed on.
Nevertheless, the criminals at ClubMarine were happy with it and that was the only reason - insurance - l had the survey done.
Otherwise l would have been better off spending my dough on charity or at Fortitude Valley .
As far as the rigging was concerned, the guy did not even look at it, dismissed it as too old at the age of 13 years, which is an utterly unsupportable position for any person who knows about rigging.
This whole "war-dance" was played out to satisfy the criminals called insurance companies who for their own good decided that a ten year old rigging must be replaced, no matter what.
It is a mafia and we can do noughts about it.
so you had to also pay for a rigging report. I like the quality receipt you were given. So professional
What I did was ring the local marinas and ask the marina offices for the names of surveyors that were known to them, from those recommendations I rang each one for a quote but the main thing I was after with the phone call was to get an idea of the person I was talking to, I picked the one who I liked the sound of (old guy, very knowledgeable). He wanted payment upfront too but I guess he had his reasons.
I ended up buying the boat and when I sat down to have a read through the stack of old paperwork that came with it I found that one of the past surveys was done by the same guy! Small world.
Maybe more important than whether you pay the surveyor upfront would be asking the broker/owner if you can look at the boat's paperwork/work history first to get an idea of the level of upkeep and past issues.
even if you get shown the paperwork there are no guarantees. I know a mate who is willing to give you an invoice for anything for the right price. Yea, nah you would not want the same surveyor
As a matter of fact l sailed the boat for years, after climbing the mast and report on the rigging to myself, before re-rigging it after seventeen years. The old rigging was in prime condition, it was a waste of time and money putting the new rig on.
As l wrote before, l insured the boat in April 2017 with QBE without out-of-water survey after leaving ClubMarine for it's avaricious behavior.
If l bought another yacht, l would not use a surveyor - unless l could not find an insurer who would insure the boat without it - and do the survey myself.
It would take quite a few hours to thoroughly get trough the tub, but l would do it - for myself - properly. I am confident to do a better job than those 'surveyors' with whom l had a misfortune to suffer in the past.
