I know that in pitching seas an outboard can cavitate badly, and the excess weight off the transom might not be desirable but other than that what other things would turn you off using one.
An ageing saildrive might have non replaceable parts.
Select to expand quotekeensailor said..
I know that in pitching seas an outboard can cavitate badly, and the excess weight off the transom might not be desirable but other than that what other things would turn you off using one.
An ageing saildrive might have non replaceable parts.
pull it down Keen have a look its a "Bukh "she will go again. Bukhs never die then just make you do maintenance on them.\
There a blonde and they look for a good cuddle now and then 
and a bit of TLC 
Sure, it's your call, just share my experience.
I have Yamaha 4 stroke 9.9HP remote...electric start only....love it.
My boat is smaller and weight is not a problem, even a bit of swell is ok.
My boat is overpowered, yours should be perfect.
But on my own, running on autopilot I can walk as far as mast, the prop is out of water.
Your boat is longer , you wouldn't have this funny problem.
Thanks
Yes, HG and Ramona your are correct in what you say. Even though I would still need to weigh up the pros and cons.
Some of the positives I see for an outboard would be:
- would no longer be under powered as I am with the Bukh
- would'nt have to get a diver every 3 months to clean the little prop, which becomes totally ineffective after 3 months
- spend may be similar but end up with whole new motor and drive
- would end up with a nice big storage area where the engine currently is ;)
If you seach for Northshore 27 review you will find the original sales brochure. This refers to a transom mounted o/b as a standard option. So maybe the transom is already reinforced. The next question is how you fill the hole left by the saildrive leg. Would need the boat on the hard for a little while, but not a huge task to glass in a patch if done properly.
Hi Keen,
If this is any help , my experience with a 9.9hp outboard on a 26', I hate the thing.
Calm flat days it is great, but any swell and it cavitates. Trying to solo sail is a pain, as what Chariot said, you get to the mast and it cavitates.
I lost my main halyard one day in a pretty ugly day, tried motoring and ended up being blown onto a lee shore due to the wave action making it useless, there was nothing I could do to stop it, the CG thankfully pulled me off at the last minute.
On another boat again in pretty foul weather was motoring, prop cavitated over a large wave, the motor had worked off the bracket, jumped off, snapped the chain and disappeared at full noise into the depths.
Mine is offset to clear the transom hung rudder, so no prop walk or turning circle. A friends Davidson 34 can turn on a dime, I turn like a truck.
I go through fuel lines regularly, they go hard and leak.
I have adjusted the depth a few times, but when it is deep enough to not cavitate all the time, when raised I find I am skull dragging it downwind.
I would love to swap it out for a little inboard diesel .
Good luck to you whatever decision you make, but take it from me, they have issues the same as inboards.
A thought if you decide to go the outboard route and there fore have to have structural work done anyway can you make an engine well possibly where the sail drive is now?
Another outboard owner. Cavitation is not such an issue for us. The outboard is on a spring loaded parallelogram bracket which can drop it pretty deep, so much so that at WOT I lift it up a notch according to conditions. If I have a couple of kids on board in the vee berth and I go forward the engine will lift at the higher setting. In meter wind swell seas I set it at the bottom and it rarely if ever cavitates.
I was a kid when I saw a Boomerang in trouble with the dreaded cavitation issue, we ended up lending them assistance. It always stuck in my mind as a serious problem for TSers. The builder of my boat advised me pre-2nd hand purchase the design is pretty good and cavitation is dictated by crew position. If it's rough keep everyone out of the vee berth.
Is there an owners group you can question as it appears to be design oriented.
9.9 2st is over powered for us 26ft JOG.
Apart from that I love being able to take the engine off. No through hull fittings. Easily replaced. I just wish the 4st weighed less because then I'd get a quieter engine.
Select to expand quotekeensailor said..
Thanks
Yes, HG and Ramona your are correct in what you say. Even though I would still need to weigh up the pros and cons.
Some of the positives I see for an outboard would be:
- would no longer be under powered as I am with the Bukh
- would'nt have to get a diver every 3 months to clean the little prop, which becomes totally ineffective after 3 months
- spend may be similar but end up with whole new motor and drive
- would end up with a nice big storage area where the engine currently is ;)
The Bukh is not under powered it's more likely a miss matched prop.
Buy a few wetsuits from the Salvos [I think I have 8!] Latest one is a 7mm shorty with a front zip right down the leg, as new , made in Canada for the princely sum of one dollar at one of there sales.
Keep the original set up. The sheer pleasure of having an inboard, a real marine one at that and not a converted cement mixer motor is something to be savoured.
Not only do you not have to worry about someone stealing it as you do with an outboard you wont have to suffer petrol smells which you will always get on hot days.
For those people who have to have an an outboard on smaller yachts/trailer sailors I would suggest making a Korts nozzle. This will cure any cavitaion problems and give a massive improvement in thrust. I have one on my tender outboard made from plastic pipe 'glassed over with epoxy, glass cloth and some carbon fibre. No need to make it to close tolerances, I think the blades have about 5mm of clearance.
Select to expand quotekeensailor said..
I know that in pitching seas an outboard can cavitate badly, and the excess weight off the transom might not be desirable but other than that what other things would turn you off using one.
An ageing saildrive might have non replaceable parts.
Hi Keen sailor
I have three engine mounts that may suit your sail drive there in good nick
There's a number on the mounting its 17/403 on the opposite side the brand seem to read Metalastice
There yours for the price of postage if you want them there is also three alloy mounting pads
Thanks HG, but mine are new with engine, so 2 years old.
The LSME does'nt have mounts for saildrive as such;
I have been lurking on this board for a while and finally go around to post. I appreciate the photos etc. you have put online keen sailor, and will try and put some of my Northshore 27 projects up there. I had a cracked head on my Bukh 10, got it fixed and after only about 10 hours has lost compression again. I am going to pull it and dump it in the salt, more on that later. I found this post somewhere else on the internet that quite well sums up my feelings on outboards --
credits to the poster
I like outboards.
If they blowup, need a tuneup or anything of great importance repaired you can pop them off the transom and work on them on a dry land, on the dock, or set them in the cockpit. Standing up with a work bench in air conditioning or heat is also a possibility! They never need the shaft packing replaced... and the amount of time standing on your head in the bilgeis... none! (And the bilge water doesn't smell like a fermenting brew of diesel and oil drippings!) You can replace the whole fuel delivery system for a hundred bucks. Heck, you can have a complete spare fuel tank with priming bulb and filter that doubles up for use in thedinghy.
Three less holes in the hull, no raw water hoses to replace. No heat exchanger (unless you want to rot out the engine block...) No wet exhaust, mufflers, elbows... Throttle and shift linkage are mounted on the engine. No gauges, if somethings about to blow it gives the same warning of impending doom as a push lawn mower... Clattering, pinging, etc. (About as complex as one too...)
For a couple hundred dollars you can have a spare complete drive train, and for a thousand to two you can have anything brand spanking new from mild to wild.
Then when you get to the dock, theres no such thing as prop walk in reverse. You've got a directional stern thruster, and a boat that will spin on its axis. Under sail, hoist the prop up clear of the water and you are faster than the same boat dragging a prop. When you aren't using the boat, the zincs are clear of the water so nothing is getting corroded.
Downsides: The suck in any kind of steep chop, lifting the prop clear of the water. Good news is, if theres a steep chop theres normally wind to go along with it, just hope where you want to go isn't where its blowing from! They are noisy, and a theft target. If you want to motor sail, one tack does a little better than the other. They can be a pain in the rump to shift gears, pull the cord, and steering them can require some contortion...
I'd go with the outboard... Or buy the diesel, pull it out and sell it and all the components and then mount an outboard. It is a sailboat after all, might not look as pretty but no prop drag is mighty nice! I'd say if you are interested in sailing performance to count the pounds, put a light weight one on the stern get out to the channel... pull it off and lay it on the cabin sole. cid:FCFA9FBF-69F3-477F-9BEE-CE1469206691@gateway
My Triton came up out of the water 4 inches in the stern after I pulled the inboard engine. (With the outboard still hanging on the transom!) the prop, shaft, stuffing box, stringers, and bronze seacocks are still in place! Then theres the storage space...
This is also another very good article I have found on the subject.
www.mysailing.com.au/news/outboard-on-board
thanks ange!
Since posting I took a little dive under the boat and found that some nylon rope had attached itself around the prop shaft. Looks like it had cut into the ribber boot that fits around the saildrive and it was getting caught up in the prop, hence the noise. I removed the rope and damaged boot and the boat goes a lot better now. Getting my 4 knots under motor now, and think the saildrive might have some more life yet.
Sorry to hear about the cracked head, they are a couple of grand to replace I think.
I think beta uk have a beta to bukh conversion
For 10 ho bukh sail drives
I put a pdf up in another thread recently
I agree with Ange. Ive no interest in inboards. Take up loads of room and Even on a massive vessel access is tight if you need to work on them. Youve gotta be a diesel mechanic IMO if you wanna be able to get them working yourself. The amount of stories i read and hear of people stuffing about tryna get parts for and fix inboards way outweighs outboards. Not to mention the costs and trying to get parts. Theres way less that can go wrong with an outboard.
I can pretty much always get an outboard going and barely use it anyway. Im thinking if im out there in a bit of swell, theres gonna be wind as well and id have the sails up. Sail boats work real good with sails up - especially in swell.
People circumnavigate with no engine and with outboards. When set up well with a long shaft and secured tight on the back they cant come off. Its a matter of securing it well - like you do with anything on deck.
as for petrol smells - well that depends. My bluebird def stank of petrol, but the top hats fuel is all outside in lockers. theres no fuel smell, theres no sound when i do use the engine. I may be converted one day, but for me simple is best. I just know too many people that bought expensive boats with complex systems only be spending a fortune and constantly working on them.
Pulled the inboard out of my 28ft boat 5 years ago, glassed over the hole, put plates both sides of the transom and have a Tohatsu 9.8 on the back.
The secret is to buy a long shaft, and use a drop down outboard mount
Very pleased, when you need a service, take it off, put it in the car and take it to the dealer, no call out fees.
Go with outboard
Outboards:
Pros: easy to repair (fix it in the garage), easy and cheap to replace, no prop-cleaning
Cons: noisy, smelly (but not too bad if it's a 4-stroke), carrying flammable fuel, poor economy = need to carry more fuel, not so good in waves, expensive parts
Diesels:
Pros: much better in waves, quieter, less smelly, better economy, safer fuel, much better battery charging
Cons: bitch to work on (tight space), probably old so you will be working on it, heavy, takes up lots of space, expensive parts, hard to get a mechanic to work on little old diesels for any money, need to clean the prop
My humble opinion is that if you're doing any serious cruising outside, an inboard is a must. But for day sails in bays/harbours and just the occasional day hop outside, an outboard is the go.
Cheers, Graeme
I have a Tohatsu 9.8 on a 2100kg 28 footer. Mine is an ultra long shaft mounted on a bracket that slides fore and aft on traveller cars through the walk-through transom I fitted.
I love it. Performance under power is significantly better than with the diesel because I'm not forced to use a folding prop to get good sailing performance. The ultra long shaft does not cavitate in heavy conditions offshore so far. Although I have yet to use it in very heavy swells, it's been out Sydney Heads in a typical southerly with not the slightest issue. I feel that big swells will be less of a problem than a severe short chop and in the worst conditions I've met in the four years or so I've had the outboard, cavitation did not occur - the boat just powered into severe conditions (ie stronger winds than you normally meet in a Sydney-Hobart, stacking up into a very nasty short sea during an early spring south coast NSW westerly).
My engine is mounted low and in the centre of the boat - off centre mountings, shorter shafts and higher mountings may differ.
Other issues such as maintenance and prop fouling (by marine growth or errant lines) are much easier on the outboard. Vibration is almost non existent.
On the minus side fuel efficiency is much lower and I have to dig the engine out of its hole every run and slide it back in later. I do flush it with through a small drain hole that leads into the cooling system. So far it seems OK - but at about $2000 and with lower maintenance costs, it seems that you could if necessary replace a corroded outboard every few years and still come out ahead on price compared to fitting a new diesel.
There is no way you can compare the sheer pleasure of just reaching down and pressing the starter button on an old diesel to rooting about with an outboard.
I need a CDI unit for my Tohatsu at the moment. Costs are ridiculous.
Different strokes for different folks. I don't want to root around for $8000 or whatever a new diesel costs, fitted, nor do I want to root around with anodes, stern glands, electric starters, etc. And the reduced drag under sail allowed me to cut the genoa overlap down dramatically without reducing performance, making the boat much nicer to sail.
Interesting read and have similar sized boat, 8m
As a Marine Engineer the last thing I want to be messing around with at home is another damn diesel or smell diesel.
I have a 5hp Honda 4 stroke, long shaft, stern mounted and no issue with cavitation, it is locked straight and easy to drive, .... okay little dicking around to get it on and off the transom as it is open transom but no real issue. Sits deep when being used and high and dry when not.
Pushes the boat along at 6-6.5 knots easily so in my case .... happy.
As someone else said, "horses for courses" and each to their own, my case like the open interior, no pipes, no exhausts, no fuel tanks inside and can take it home to service, purrrrrfect
I like push button start on the Sailmaster as my wife would struggle to start the outboard on our previous Spacesailer but a outboard with electric start and forward control would give you this
The other advantages of a outboard that previous posters have said are pretty tempting
Regards Don
Not mentioned so far is the added weight of an outboard in the wrong place on a light weight sailing vessel. Storing the outboard inside or in a locker gives some security, but outboards mounted on the stern full time are the second most stolen item in the sailing scene.
Ive had a outboard lock on mine. I leave it on. Last 2 + year's. I get on board and im off immediately. Im not into fluffing about on and off the transom. Lotsa good locks. And the fact my mooring is just under houses. 1 of those a guy i race with. He kerps an ear and eye out on his boat and mine thats there.
All depends what you do with your boat in my way of thinking a harour hope and cruising weekend a out would be OK but if you want more than that .
I tend to like a diesel its all about choices and what fits your needs and all yachts are compromises .
Some like them blue some like them red
Each to his or hers own
Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said..
Ive had a outboard lock on mine. I leave it on. Last 2 + year's. I get on board and im off immediately. Im not into fluffing about on and off the transom. Lotsa good locks. And the fact my mooring is just under houses. 1 of those a guy i race with. He kerps an ear and eye out on his boat and mine thats there.
Steve, did you leave it with the leg in the water? (Assuming you used the well.) One of the Top Hat lady owners used to do that, but she had anti-fouling on the prop and leg. Some of the Top Hat owners instead lift the motors straight up out of the well onto a stand.
