Select to expand quoteAll@Sea said..
Beam reach, bigger, faster boat to windward? I've been known to let the bigger boat through and try to lock onto their transom to ride their wake. The loss of a boat length can be quickly overcome, and I've made a lot of distance on similar sized boats using this method in fresh breezes. The more wind (and wake) the better.... Having said that, would anyone protest that as receiving (nonconsensual) outside assistance? Sorry for the thread drift.
Same here, but by the same token when I'm on the bigger faster boat the right thing to do is to go high or low and not to slow down the smaller boat if you can help it. A lot of the time you can talk to the smaller boat; say "sorry mate, I'll give you as much space as I can then I'll get ahead and leave you to it".
I'll sometimes talk to the big boat overtaking me, telling them that I won't luff them if they don't come too close. The good sailors understand, the slow ones don't. It's normally an empty threat, but once every few years I can't take the slow close passes any more and start luffing. The people who didn't care when they slowed me down by blanketing me then become extremely indignant that I'm slowing them down. As I said, it's only the slow sailors who do it.
Strangely enough, when we're on the fast kit (the cat) some of the same people seem to suddenly feel that slower boats should receive all possible courtesy and attention, even when they have no rights.....
So the, I'm bigger, I'm faster and I'm not really taking it too seriously, so I'll just work around the racing rules to suit myself idea doesn't really seem to sit well with most.
Might be worth putting a bit of thought into it before you head out to the race track next .
Select to expand quoteSubsonic said..
Thanks for the pic shaggy. What hoops says is true though. there quite often is an amount of bias (this one looks quite bad) to one end of the line and its quite a common for boats trying to squeeze in with no rights to get luffed off the end of it. Size isn't a relevant argument when youre racing.
Start lines are often quite hectic, everyone is there, trying to be in the prime spot for the start signal, Its quite a common place for collisions to occur. Given the room to leeward you said he had, when it became clear to him a collision was imminent what he really should have done was avoid the collision and protested you. How that fits in withe fact you were in a different division but on the same start line im not sure. I would absolutely luff someone off the line though if it was going to cost me a spot in the race. Sure, youre not racing for sheep stations, but it is a race, the aim is to finish in front of the others. Playing the rules is absolutely a part of racing.
Everything you said made sense to me. The only thing I can add is trying to answering this statement"How that fits in with the fact you were in a different division but on the same line I am not sure".
We are all racing to the same rules irrespective of what division we are in.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..Subsonic said..
Thanks for the pic shaggy. What hoops says is true though. there quite often is an amount of bias (this one looks quite bad) to one end of the line and its quite a common for boats trying to squeeze in with no rights to get luffed off the end of it. Size isn't a relevant argument when youre racing.
Start lines are often quite hectic, everyone is there, trying to be in the prime spot for the start signal, Its quite a common place for collisions to occur. Given the room to leeward you said he had, when it became clear to him a collision was imminent what he really should have done was avoid the collision and protested you. How that fits in withe fact you were in a different division but on the same start line im not sure. I would absolutely luff someone off the line though if it was going to cost me a spot in the race. Sure, youre not racing for sheep stations, but it is a race, the aim is to finish in front of the others. Playing the rules is absolutely a part of racing.
Everything you said made sense to me. The only thing I can add is trying to answering this statement"How that fits in with the fact you were in a different division but on the same line I am not sure".
We are all racing to the same rules irrespective of what division we are in.
It is a good question, unfortunately one only the race committee could answer. I would think if starting everyone on the same start, they would have to go through the protest process. I wouldn't want to get blanketed on the start line by a barging windward boat with no penalty process in place, because they happen to be in a different division.
Another thing to consider is the guy that luffed Shaggy at the start boat could have been heading up to kill speed. If he has to bear off sharply to let Shaggy In he could be over early.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..
Boats are sailing around in the starting area before the race committee has made any signals.
Can boats be penalised for breaking a rule when they are not racing?
I hope this post does not offend anyone.
I thought a few revision questions might refresh a few memories and stimulate some interesting comments.
If you are in the sailing area and you are not racing you must not interfere with a boat that is racing.
If you cause a boat to change course you may be penalised.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..
Boats are sailing around in the starting area before the race committee has made any signals.
Can boats be penalised for breaking a rule when they are not racing?
I hope this post does not offend anyone.
I thought a few revision questions might refresh a few memories and stimulate some interesting comments.
The rules still apply, although if no signals have been made, no-one is racing...?? Mmmhh?
Select to expand quotePoodle said..Bundeenabuoy said..
Boats are sailing around in the starting area before the race committee has made any signals.
Can boats be penalised for breaking a rule when they are not racing?
I hope this post does not offend anyone.
I thought a few revision questions might refresh a few memories and stimulate some interesting comments.
The rules still apply, although if no signals have been made, no-one is racing...?? Mmmhh?
Boats may be starting their race at different times.
You start racing four minutes before your preparatory signal (horn, flag, or clock).
You are not racing if you start in six minutes before but another boat is racing if she starts in four minutes .
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..Poodle said..Bundeenabuoy said..
Boats are sailing around in the starting area before the race committee has made any signals.
Can boats be penalised for breaking a rule when they are not racing?
I hope this post does not offend anyone.
I thought a few revision questions might refresh a few memories and stimulate some interesting comments.
The rules still apply, although if no signals have been made, no-one is racing...?? Mmmhh?
Boats may be starting their race at different times.
You start racing four minutes before your preparatory signal (horn, flag, or clock).
You are not racing if you start in six minutes before but another boat is racing if she starts in four minutes .
sternchaser starts
Select to expand quoteSandS said..Bundeenabuoy said..Poodle said..Bundeenabuoy said..
Boats are sailing around in the starting area before the race committee has made any signals.
Can boats be penalised for breaking a rule when they are not racing?
I hope this post does not offend anyone.
I thought a few revision questions might refresh a few memories and stimulate some interesting comments.
The rules still apply, although if no signals have been made, no-one is racing...?? Mmmhh?
Boats may be starting their race at different times.
You start racing four minutes before your preparatory signal (horn, flag, or clock).
You are not racing if you start in six minutes before but another boat is racing if she starts in four minutes .
sternchaser starts
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..
Boats are sailing around in the starting area before the race committee has made any signals.
Can boats be penalised for breaking a rule when they are not racing?
I hope this post does not offend anyone.
I thought a few revision questions might refresh a few memories and stimulate some interesting comments.
Boats must begin to comply with the Racing Rules of Sailing once they have arrived at the racing area.
There are also Class Rules and Sailing Instructions that boats must comply with once they have arrived at the racing area.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..Poodle said..Bundeenabuoy said..
Boats are sailing around in the starting area before the race committee has made any signals.
Can boats be penalised for breaking a rule when they are not racing?
I hope this post does not offend anyone.
I thought a few revision questions might refresh a few memories and stimulate some interesting comments.
The rules still apply, although if no signals have been made, no-one is racing...?? Mmmhh?
Boats may be starting their race at different times.
You start racing four minutes before your preparatory signal (horn, flag, or clock).
You are not racing if you start in six minutes before but another boat is racing if she starts in four minutes .Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..Poodle said..Bundeenabuoy said..
Boats are sailing around in the starting area before the race committee has made any signals.
Can boats be penalised for breaking a rule when they are not racing?
I hope this post does not offend anyone.
I thought a few revision questions might refresh a few memories and stimulate some interesting comments.
The rules still apply, although if no signals have been made, no-one is racing...?? Mmmhh?
Boats may be starting their race at different times.
You start racing four minutes before your preparatory signal (horn, flag, or clock).
You are not racing if you start in six minutes before but another boat is racing if she starts in four minutes .
I need to correct a typing error. Above should read;
You start racing four minutes after your preparatory signal (horn, flag or clock).
You haven't started racing if you start in six minutes, but another boat is racing if she starts in four minutes.
Select to expand quoteAll@Sea said..
Beam reach, bigger, faster boat to windward? I've been known to let the bigger boat through and try to lock onto their transom to ride their wake. The loss of a boat length can be quickly overcome, and I've made a lot of distance on similar sized boats using this method in fresh breezes. The more wind (and wake) the better.... Having said that, would anyone protest that as receiving (nonconsensual) outside assistance? Sorry for the thread drift.
Riding the stern wave. This is a great trick when you pull it off, I'm always amazed at how effective this is.
I'm not very good at it, I still struggle to position myself in the right spot, but when you get it right its awesome!
We did this to a Lyons 60 and got sucked along for miles, the poor boat doing the dragging can't do much to stop you either. Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..shaggybaxter said..hoop said..shaggybaxter said..SandS said..
14
AVOIDING CONTACT
A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible. However, a right-of-way boat or one entitled to room or mark-roomneed not act to avoid contact until it is clear that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room or mark-room, and shall be exonerated if she breaks this rule and the contact does not cause damage or injury.
in other words all boats should avoid contact , even a boat with right of way .
Had my first tickle on the race course from a guy this weekend that failed to follow this.
Start line lay was a reach, we're lined up to cross near the start boat. Further down the line to by two boat lengths to leeward, a 26' suddenly luffs hard toward us, hollering for mark room. He was yelling how he couldn't let me in as we'd blanket him.
I watched him come up onto our line, he's still heading for , and pushng us toward, the start boat, I'm thinking he will fall back soon. Nope. I throw the boat hard over, we bump him with the transom on the turn and end up with the startboat fending off our bowsprit as we go around.
I was really quite shocked at the ease of which he decided a collision was ok. I get he was in the rules to luff me, but seriously? Last time I checked we're not racing for sheep stations.
Did he sail above his proper course to the next mark? If not then you were barging. It's up to you to get out the way. If you're racing you have to play by the rules. You can't just fall back on how seriously each individual is taking it.
Absolutely, he sailed above his proper course. That's wrong when applied to the barometer of say common sense, but technically right when applied to the rules, as there is no proper course before the start.
It's not really wrong when applied to common sense. It's a race. It's really hard for smaller boats if big boats come in and say from the small boat's perspective "f*ck you mate and f*ck the rules, I'm coming through and I'm going to roll over you and stop you dead in my dead air".
With respect, it's your job to foresee these issues. If you don't want people to have to defend their clear air and their chance in the race, then it's best to not make them defend themselves.
Sure, we're not racing for sheep stations, but that applies both ways. If the small boat can be told "hey mate, have your start and your race stuffed up, it's not a serious race" then the big boat can just as fairly be told "hey mate, hang back late and have your race stuffed up, it's not a serious race".
If it's not serious, then there's no reason at all to bend the rules - why bend the rules to win a little race. If it is serious, then there's no reason at all to bend the rules - you definitely shouldn't bend the rules to win a big race.
Hi Chris,
I agree with you, and I dont think there is any way I put in words the reality. I've never used my size to muscle over smaller boats, ever. This case was the same, he was proverbially miles away down the line, and there was never an inkling from me, my crew, or the other boat for the few minutes we were all stooging along before the gun.
If it was a normal line set, and there wasn't multiple divisions doing a massed start, I wouldn't have though twice about someone protecting their end. I admit reading my own text sounds wrong, I think you had to be there to see my side of it.
Cheers,
SB
