In looking at your needs and intended hard stand I would stick with a ts
as you will need to raise the keel to get up the channel at low tide or risk
getting stuck . I'm not sure when you said sailing kangaroo island you meant sailing from garden island or trailering the boat . At least with a 30 year plus old ts you know it has not been sitting in the water all that time and it's pretty easy to check the hull over without the need to pay for haul out etc. , especially if it's never been antifouled. It may be a small thing but look at things like the ceiling in the cabin , are the interior seats , galley etc moulded in or are they added later. A moulded headliner is nice to have. For mine I would be looking at something with a disp/ ballast of min. around 40% and max legal beam .
,
Every one is pointing out the nuisance it is to (single handed) slip a trailer boat in the water. My previous boat, the 25'trimaran was on a slip mooring where currents and wind would make retrieving my mooring almost impossible. The only other way is having a marina berth (with associated yearly maintenance etc).
Yara, I appreciate your thinking, that we (ie I) are/am going in circles. But not really, I am just taking in all the comments and trying to make sense of them. Getting a spot on the hard cost $270 or thereabout. A mooring will cost me around $1300 a year. Difference is $1k, not insignificant given that there are other costs associated with a wet berth, but perhaps I have not valued the convenience ( and the extra days sailing because of it?). I still cannot consider a keel boat in the shallow waters I inhibit! Also a trailer simplify slipping and maintenance.
I have a holiday house in American River. Beautiful 180* views of the bay. Again tidal flats, and water only accessible from a ramp or a mooring. I had a mooring....never again! Anchoring is Ok, it is retrieving, with cross wind and current, which is the issue.
So I am quite clear on that, no keel boat.
Ramona, after seeing the Blazer in the flesh, I was horrified. It is big, tall mast, awkward boat everywhere, from shin breaking traveler to interior access. Look good on paper, but that's about it. The Young was so cute, I wanted to take it home! But cruising? I wouldn't know where to stow my tooth brush! I saw a Bonito at anchor, and God doesn't it look good. While I was talking about my search for the Holy Grail to the Blazer's skipper, he reckoned that the Bonito in question would suit me, and yes he knew a club member selling his. Here is the catch, he is downsizing to something more manageable! Hello! Alarm bells ringing in my head.
This leads to the last boat I ventured to look at. The 20 years abandoned Austral 20. Son is selling his long departed father's boat, keen to sell it in fact, want it gone. The boat was sound and the sails looked clean and crisp ( as new). It is a plump little thing, probably not terribly fast, but giving a feeling of being safe. Horrible traveler but unlike the Blazer, not in the way of a shin breaker. The thing is I feel I can handle it, nothing too difficult. I also, despite the centreboard being...well there, I still could easily move around. It is a simple arrangement but not cramped as I was expecting it to be , and the height inside, I found it to be, adequate. I also think that despite the fact a complete refit is required, this not a difficult nor an expensive job. Trailer is good, but the tires are cooked and bearings are dry. If I offer 3K, I think it could be mine.
I am getting there...
I have not seen a Castle 650, or a Careel 22 yet. And yes I will keep to the well tested and affordable brands of the 80ish. So the list is getting shorter.
Next, Friday, I will look at a $11K Austral 20, and the Bonito 22 (no price yet mentioned, he is working it out!).
Select to expand quoteBananabender said..Ramona said..
You sure your not confusing the Sonata 7 with the Sonata 8 .
You are perfectly correct. The boat in question was always referred to as a Sonata 26. All I can remember is that it was difficult to rig and launch. Had a football team as crew and always looked tender.
Select to expand quoteSeaLice said..
This leads to the last boat I ventured to look at. The 20 years abandoned Austral 20. Son is selling his long departed father's boat, keen to sell it in fact, want it gone. The boat was sound and the sails looked clean and crisp ( as new). It is a plump little thing, probably not terribly fast, but giving a feeling of being safe. Horrible traveler but unlike the Blazer, not in the way of a shin breaker. The thing is I feel I can handle it, nothing too difficult. I also, despite the centreboard being...well there, I still could easily move around. It is a simple arrangement but not cramped as I was expecting it to be , and the height inside, I found it to be, adequate. I also think that despite the fact a complete refit is required, this not a difficult nor an expensive job. Trailer is good, but the tires are cooked and bearings are dry. If I offer 3K, I think it could be mine.
I am getting there...
I have not seen a Castle 650, or a Careel 22 yet. And yes I will keep to the well tested and affordable brands of the 80ish. So the list is getting shorter.
Next, Friday, I will look at a $11K Austral 20, and the Bonito 22 (no price yet mentioned, he is working it out!).
I have only ever looked at one Austral 20 and that was a long time ago in SA. At the time a big TS was 22 foot [Careel] It looked big to me but I was sailing a Status 19 at the time. Price wise it sounds tempting. The jobs on the trailer would probably be no different from most second hand TS that have been sitting about for years, 90% of them!
There were several Castle 650's in our club and at the time there was a two year waiting list to purchase new. These are one of the prettiest TS about and now the prices of secondhand units have dropped to reasonable levels. They are classy boats!
Bananabender, I agree.
The Austral has a 350kg ballast and a fat displacement of 950kg ratio of 37% (almost there). It also has buoyancy everywhere, including the mast. It has a capsize formula of 2.11, not bad, but it does not tell the full story. It satisfies the 1984 Y.F. stability test. As I mentioned to Ramona, it wafts an air of feelsafe.
It has lining, is insulated and the interior is in good nick.
This is what you are talking about, and I feel the same way. I just hope the boat sails as well as the reviews are indicating.
So there it is. If so is it the Boat??? ( But the traveller has to !).
Time will tell.
Yes! I would grab that Austral 20. Bit of TLC and it will fit the bill on performance, price, compromise.
Select to expand quoteSeaLice said..
Bananabender, I agree.
The Austral has a 350kg ballast and a fat displacement of 950kg ratio of 37% (almost there). It also has buoyancy everywhere, including the mast. It has a capsize formula of 2.11, not bad, but it does not tell the full story. It satisfies the 1984 Y.F. stability test. As I mentioned to Ramona, it wafts an air of feelsafe.
It has lining, is insulated and the interior is in good nick.
This is what you are talking about, and I feel the same way. I just hope the boat sails as well as the reviews are indicating.
So there it is. If so is it the Boat??? ( But the traveller has to !).
Time will tell.
SeaLice, I owned an Austral 20 Mark 2 for nearly four years. Had mast-up storage. Did most of my launching/sailing/retreiving solo.
Pros - Very sturdy boat, easy to sail (especially with the furler), small enough for a tilt-trailer, small enough for replacements etc to be relatively cheap, won't matter if you put a couple of dings in it.
Cons - mostly to do with the fact that it is a small, old boat. Small interior, shin-height traveller, small cockpit (will feel cramped with 3 people on board)
Arguable - Does not sail or point as fast as a keel boat, which it shares in common with most other 30 year-old cruising trailer-sailers. Swing keel - some people don't like them, but I do because if you ground, you can simply swing the keel up. Indeed, for light cruising in shallow water, you might not insert the locking pin, which will give you a "soft" grounding, if it happens. I only put the locking pin in rougher conditions.
I had a couple of adventures with the trailer and swing keel. If you're interested, I really recommend reading my blog here ...
theboattinkerer.blogspot.com/2017/06/episode-1-beginnings.html
Achermar, thank you for that insight, much appreciated. I think this is right for me. When I was young, I had a long keel 28' carvel ketch, a sea going vessel which had gone around the world. And I loved it. Going close to the wind was an affair to be avoided, just motor in. I think I can see what I am getting into, and I don't think I will be disappointed. I never could afford a "new boat", and old boats are quirky, part of their charms. For mostly a day sailer and going solo, in term of space, it looks to me like an enormous cavern!!!!
Sonata 8 first - in line dual spreaders, runners, way too narrow a stern, small sail area......Gary Mull designed.
sailboatdata.com/sailboat/sonata-8
The update to it was a more easily sailed Sonata 26 with single swept back spreaders, no runners. Same hull shape and sail area.
sailboatdata.com/sailboat/sonata-26
Both available as fixed keel or centreboarder.
The Mull Sonata 6.7 came out about a year later with far wider stern and virtually kept up with the 8 when JOG racing.
Boomaroo/Catalina 22. Like most American trailer sailers has a nice long clear cockpit that you can stretch out in and sleep on. Any of these trailer sailers are too stuffy and hot to sleep down below in summer.
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/rowville/sail-boats/boomaroo-22-trailer-sailer-yacht-bargain/1234892796
Select to expand quoteSeaLice said..
Achermar, thank you for that insight, much appreciated. I think this is right for me. When I was young, I had a long keel 28' carvel ketch, a sea going vessel which had gone around the world. And I loved it. Going close to the wind was an affair to be avoided, just motor in. I think I can see what I am getting into, and I don't think I will be disappointed. I never could afford a "new boat", and old boats are quirky, part of their charms. For mostly a day sailer and going solo, in term of space, it looks to me like an enormous cavern!!!!
SeaLice, thanks. I'm not posting here to say this boat is better than that boat - they all have their graces and vices. I hope that when you buy a boat, you do so on an even keel* so that you don't suddenly find something that makes you regret it and, for whatever reason, stops you from sailing it. Enjoy your sailing. Whatever you get, get something that you can love.
(* Gratuitous pun - could not help myself)
Achernar, I have already passed the point of no return. My wife, when shown the more expensive boat (11k) that we saw today, absolutely loved it.
I wasn't interested in this particular one, due to high asking price, many maintenance issues, old Rude and not too new main sail, but I can refit the one I previously inspected, within my budget and with superior, new equipment.
The seller wants 5K, and I offered 3K only, because the trailer is un-braked ( adding a cost of possibly $1200 to my bottom line). He is keen to sell, and the boat suit my purpose, so hopefully we will get there. I know that I am a bit mean, but I'm not in any hurry, and money is money, hard to get! As it is, I will fork out 10k on this project!
I am now well and truly committed. And thanks for all the lovely advice, and suggestions, it has helped me tremendously.
We agreed on 4 k. All parties are happy with that, and I don't feel so mean anymore. Deal done, see you later...
I owned a Boomerang B63, which I loved, but sold to go up to a small keel-boat - TopHat 25. The B63 had all the features that keep cropping up, and sailed very well. It was basically a Boomerang 20, but with a slightly raised, modern styled deck. 7/8 Fractional rig, with genoa furler, and I made a great mast-raising system. Pop-top, 9.8 Tohatsu, drop-keel. Good to tow behind Rodeo with only cable brakes. Not many ever built, and most likely to come up in VIC. Closest alternative would be Sonata 6/7. I would have kept her for Port Phillip, but the open ocean beckoned.
Select to expand quoteSeaLice said..
We agreed on 4 k. All parties are happy with that, and I don't feel so mean anymore. Deal done, see you later...
So what did you buy?
Reply and confirm to all!
We are all different and thank goodness for that! And so is our taste on boats.
I detest Faars's. They have big cockpits which remind me of Plymouth and Deville American cars. Large Arses and awkard looks. Personal tates indeed, and I Hate the corrugated look on their flanks. I know it is the eyes of the beholder( me) and many people think they are great boats. They probably are...but not a thing I can love.
No, I did buy the 1991 Austral 20 (for $4000) which had been abandonned for 20 years. I know that I will spend 10 K overall , but I think it is worth it. It is a pedigree boat with reputable race successes, and a safe boat designed for cruising. The boat and sails are sound, all in good condition. Frankly , the Bonito 22 would have been my first choice, if I could have got one at a good price ( but it is bigger, and bigger ain't necessarily better). So overall, a difficult decision, but one I think I can live with.
Select to expand quoteSeaLice said..
Reply and confirm to all!
We are all different and thank goodness for that! And so is our taste on boats.
I detest Faars's. They have big cockpits which remind me of Plymouth and Deville American cars. Large Arses and awkard looks. Personal tates indeed, and I Hate the corrugated look on their flanks. I know it is the eyes of the beholder( me) and many people think they are great boats. They probably are...but not a thing I can love.
No, I did buy the 1991 Austral 20 (for $4000) which had been abandonned for 20 years. I know that I will spend 10 K overall , but I think it is worth it. It is a pedigree boat with reputable race successes, and a safe boat designed for cruising. The boat and sails are sound, all in good condition. Frankly , the Bonito 22 would have been my first choice, if I could have got one at a good price ( but it is bigger, and bigger ain't necessarily better). So overall, a difficult decision, but one I think I can live with.
That's a YES not a No! Pleased you took my recommendation.
That Careel 22 for sale in Goolwa has reappeared!
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/goolwa/sail-boats/compass-careel/1236019187
Saw that Careel 22 at Captain Sturt Marina. Nice. However I am not regretting my purchase. I am sending a friend of mine to have a look at it, so thank you for that. My A20 is sitting next to it, at Driftwood Marine, who is going to do the refit. Thank you all again for your suggestions and comments.
Hey Sealice, is that A20 at Clayton Bay boat club, if so I just bought it. Thank you Archenar, your blog is coming in very handy as I'm needing to repair many of the same problems as you experienced with such an old girl. As you have stated, there is not much about in the way of technical drawings etc. You have saved me countless hours of work and research and have therefore been promoted to LEDGEND! If you ever want a sail on a A20 let us know ... I might even let you fix something. Edit .... probably a different A20 as you are down the road at Goolwa, see you out there Sealice.
